Hello everyone,

First of all i would like to apologize in advance for another one of these "what are my chances" posts, but i just need to get your opinion.

Last year i completed my bachelor of law (LLB) in quebec (canada) with a pretty crappy GPA (2.6). This was due to linguistic problems (i'm english, and the program was in french). To redeem myself i started a masters degree (LLM) in transnational and common law (in english), i'm almost finished,and i have a GPA of 3,89. (i have a mention of academic excellence in my file).

do you guys think it is possible to be admitted in an NYU LLM based on my Canadian LLM grades, and that i had a hard time completing my bachelor in a foreign language?

please take into consideration, that the dean of graduate studies in my school is willing to write me some very good recommencations.

Thanks

Jonnyboy

By the way the school i am aiming for is primarily NYU or Columbia..... or a top 10 law university in the U.S

I think that works out to a cumulative GPA of 2.9 over four years, which is a little below the average grade given at most law schools.

But that's the absolute worst anyone can say about your application; you've tackled a tough language barrier and demonstrated serious graduate-level mettle; I think you're just going to have to prove that to an admissions committee.

I stand to be corrected, but I think the short answer would be: "possible, but not easy"?

Thank you, that somewhat gives me hope.


Anybody else feel like chiming in?

That's a tough one....

On the one hand, 2.6 is really shit (no offence), but you did do it in a foreign language which is impressive... Your situation might not be that bad because you do have evidence that you can excell academically. I think you need to paint the picture in your application: why did you do LLB in French--- why did you not transfer to an English program when you were having difficulties--- you might want to think about this if your going to use language as an excuse. TRy to get a statement from a professor to say that 2.6 is really not bad considering you don't speak french. Emphasis your other accomplishments etc.

Because of your LLB, you can pretty much forget about Harv/Yale/Stan/Chicago/Michigan/Berkley?/Columbia?.
I say this because these schools tend not to overlook "less than top 20%" ranks. Whereas other top schools like Duke, Cornell, NW, NYU? tend to look at the whole picture a bit more, and can overlook your LLB if they find enough evidence to show that your good enough. That's not to say they don't look for top rankings. They still expect top 25%, but are more willing to look at the overall picture...

Start thinking about backup schools like BU, UT, USC, Fordham etc.... Or maybe practice and get good experience.... or get recommendation from the Canadian PM:) --- you just might get into Harvard. In my home country Taiwan, all the brain dead rich kids of the KMT party go to Harvard, because their daddies are connected and donate enormus amounts of $$$.

Thanks for the insight.Your post was quite informative.

The reason why i didn't switch schools is that Where i live (in Quebec) we have a civil law system and all the universities teach law in french, except for one (Mcgill university) which is quite hard to get into, and teaches common law and civil law, so it would be difficult to transfer.

But I have another option, and that is, that i can obtain a JD (in english) from a better school in canada in just one year, due to the fact that i already have a civil law degree.My school has an agreement with another one outside of Quebec to let students in. Does anybody think i should get the JD. would it help me further in my ultimate quest of going to NYU, and eventually working in NYC. Getting good grades in a JD and having the same degree name as the united states is it really a plus ?(even though alot of the classes would be similar to the ones taken in my LLB)

thanks

PS: i certainly know that 2.6 is shit, that's why i'm working so hard to get myself out of the hole i got myself into lol!

If time (and money) is not the essence, you may opt to get an LLM in UK, Glasgow or Germany, hey maybe even in Japan, then come back to Harvard/Yale/CLS for another LLM. That can pretty much even things out and catapults your chances almost 100 fold.

Hi all,

I have the same problem of many of other...to roughly get an idea about my chances to get accepted into an Top 10 LLM program.
I'd very much apreciate if anyone can give me his personal view about it.
I list sthg concerning my profile in cronological order:

- Law School study abroad program (France) (7 months) (took 4 exams in french language i.e. isn't my first language);
- English course (UK)(1month);
- Yale Summer Law seminars(Us legal system) (2 months);
- JD at one of the best country's law school(very selective to get in); Grade: 102/110 The national academic system doesn't provide with any ranking evaluation of classes. So I wont be able to write it on the applications. My final theses concerned a comparison btw US&my Country's legal system;
- English course (US)(1 month);
- 1year and 3 months Trainee lawyer at a national law firm top ranked (Legal 500 and Chamber) as to its specific field;
- Summer Stanford university economics classes (International economics and Economics III) (4 months);
- Master's degree (i.e. a post grad school) in Company's Tax law at the national highest ranked school of business (very selective to get in) (1 year);
- 7 months as In House lawyer at an Oil&Gas company in the Department of International-finance contracts (therefore, by the time I'll send applications, on december 2008, I'll get 2 year and 9 months of law practice);
- TOEFL IBT score at the moment is 92/120.

I really hope someone can express his opinion about my profile and the chanches I'd ve to get into a high ranked LLM.
Thanks a lot

Thanks for the insight.Your post was quite informative.

The reason why i didn't switch schools is that Where i live (in Quebec) we have a civil law system and all the universities teach law in french, except for one (Mcgill university) which is quite hard to get into, and teaches common law and civil law, so it would be difficult to transfer.

But I have another option, and that is, that i can obtain a JD (in english) from a better school in canada in just one year, due to the fact that i already have a civil law degree.My school has an agreement with another one outside of Quebec to let students in. Does anybody think i should get the JD. would it help me further in my ultimate quest of going to NYU, and eventually working in NYC. Getting good grades in a JD and having the same degree name as the united states is it really a plus ?(even though alot of the classes would be similar to the ones taken in my LLB)

thanks

PS: i certainly know that 2.6 is shit, that's why i'm working so hard to get myself out of the hole i got myself into lol!

Thanks a lot Jonnyboy for your prompt and useful answer!
What make me feel worry, to honest, is only the final grade (i.e. 102 over 110). As u can see, it's not that great grade, isn't it?

well as much as i would like to take credit.. i didn't answer you, it was jasonjb.

To be honest i have no idea what 102/110 actually means...so i wouldn't be able to tell you if that's any good sorry.

PS: thanks for everyone responding, let's keep this thread going!

Dear Jonnyboy

The JD options seems quite wise. But it would depend on your final goal. If you'd want to practice common law than yeah, sounds like a good plan. Civil lawyers don't generally practice in a common law jurisdiction for too long (even if they are admitted). But take into account your age, financial resources.... Ie do you want to spend 2-3 years getting a JD?

It's odd that you couldn't transfer to a LLB (common) in other parts of Canada. Anywho... you might still be able to get into top 10 (exclud Yale/Harv/Stan... you get the idea) with what you got now, but the JD option sounds interesting. Might to a good idea because the job market is going to dog shit right now.

yeah i'm hearing some echoes from nyc lawyers and canadian lawyers that the job market isn't doing too well.
Getting a JD would only take me 1 year, as i have the majority of the credits necessary.

The only problem i see with my application, is that i have no amazing work experience at national law firms etc... another reason to get an llm. I'm 24 years old so i figure that it's not the end of the world if i'm in school for 2 or 3 more years. At this point i'm not to sure what to do. All i know is that my main goal, is getting into a top 10 school (NYU in particular), and i'm willing to do anything to get there! (it's like a personal challenge i guess).

i think it would be a great idea to get the jd and do well in it if it only means an extra year - and then try to get some good work experience for a year or so. i'm not sure how it is in canada - but if it's anything like the us a good jd from a decent school means that you have pretty high chances of getting a job in either private law firms or the government. that way you'll save some money for your llm (nyc is pretty expensive!) and law schools are much more likely to overlook your initial grades if you do well later on and have some good work experience. it would also mean that - given the job market - you'd have a good backup i.e. you could go back to canada to practice in case the llm job situation doesnt change in nyc next year. best of luck!

yeah that sounds like a good idea, because at the present moment, i don't think i'm able to obtain the type of job that i would want (ie; a big pretigious firm).

Do you guys think it would help my application if i got a job in the legal division of a mutinational company(ie; pratt and whitney) rather than a firm ....

i've been getting some great input let's keep it goin!!

**BUMP***