Is a Harvard LLM worth it?


Nail
Elbing, that seems just wonderful! Basically a subsidized loan with no interest...Basically you have three years to earn your money at a US law firm...in addition, your job secured in case you don't find any! Where can I sign this contract? :)
Elbing, that seems just wonderful! Basically a subsidized loan with no interest...Basically you have three years to earn your money at a US law firm...in addition, your job secured in case you don't find any! Where can I sign this contract? :)
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fabregas
people can we initiate the discussion again..
harvard llm v. oxford bcl?
which one is better?
people can we initiate the discussion again..
harvard llm v. oxford bcl?
which one is better?
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At least in my country, everyone who gets into for harvard gets into oxford, but the opposite is not true. There is also a certain prestige to harvard that makes it a lot more sought after than oxford. Nonetheless, from my discussions with graduates from both, I do think BCL is a tad bit more rigorous. If forced to choose, I'd say Harvard but just because the assumption in my country is that unless you are an academic, you went to do the BCL because you failed to get into harvard (or yale). That may or may not apply in other places though.
At least in my country, everyone who gets into for harvard gets into oxford, but the opposite is not true. There is also a certain prestige to harvard that makes it a lot more sought after than oxford. Nonetheless, from my discussions with graduates from both, I do think BCL is a tad bit more rigorous. If forced to choose, I'd say Harvard but just because the assumption in my country is that unless you are an academic, you went to do the BCL because you failed to get into harvard (or yale). That may or may not apply in other places though.
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QSWE
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Santa
My humble opinion:

The right answer in my opinion is that both are not comparable.

In Oxford you will be educated in an incredible way, but oriented very academically. You will study UK and European law, not that much US law.

Harvard will be (a lot) more practical and knowledge of US law might provide a bigger advantage for practising lawyers in big firms.
My humble opinion:

The right answer in my opinion is that both are not comparable.

In Oxford you will be educated in an incredible way, but oriented very academically. You will study UK and European law, not that much US law.

Harvard will be (a lot) more practical and knowledge of US law might provide a bigger advantage for practising lawyers in big firms.
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W2S
it's unbelieveble !, how comes, that people graduated with honors(maybe/probably because UCL is a crap) can be so stupid ?

the dude ask the question and reply it himself !!!

everyone knows that a LLM is useless except if you want to learn english and especially in the law field.

IF your firm told you that it's unnecessary, why do you keep asking ?

further , a corporate LLm is undoubtedly useless regarding your future which is to go back in your country and working somehow for the government.


LLM= degree for stupid foreigners who think they have chance to work in US with this kind of degree.

everybody in my law firm was graduated from(LLM from class 1982-untill now) Harvard.

they identicaly replied me : "LLM ? Rubbish"

Of course, if you re not fluent like me, maybe is it worthin otherwise go back to work "chinese camarad"

is there any doubt about the fact that work experience is more valuable than all degrees in the world ?
it's unbelieveble !, how comes, that people graduated with honors(maybe/probably because UCL is a crap) can be so stupid ?

the dude ask the question and reply it himself !!!

everyone knows that a LLM is useless except if you want to learn english and especially in the law field.

IF your firm told you that it's unnecessary, why do you keep asking ?

further , a corporate LLm is undoubtedly useless regarding your future which is to go back in your country and working somehow for the government.


LLM= degree for stupid foreigners who think they have chance to work in US with this kind of degree.

everybody in my law firm was graduated from(LLM from class 1982-untill now) Harvard.

they identicaly replied me : "LLM ? Rubbish"

Of course, if you re not fluent like me, maybe is it worthin otherwise go back to work "chinese camarad"

is there any doubt about the fact that work experience is more valuable than all degrees in the world ?
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W2S
Hi everybody!
Brother, dont think , go to Harvard, because this is "Harvard" - at HLS you receive not only education but very high status. Dont think a lot, Harvard is a Harvard!


man, congrats, you got the degree(summa cum laude) of the most stupid post !
<blockquote>Hi everybody!
Brother, dont think , go to Harvard, because this is "Harvard" - at HLS you receive not only education but very high status. Dont think a lot, Harvard is a Harvard!</blockquote>

man, congrats, you got the degree(summa cum laude) of the most stupid post !
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Santa
I agree with some points in your post, but not all.

An LLM can be a valuable asset. I can only speak for my own situation, but as a student from continental Europe an LLM from the US will help a great deal in finding top jobs in biglaw in my country. Recruiters see the foreign experience, the fluency in English and knowledge of common law/US law as a great asset.

Of course you have to be realistic and not pursue an LLM with as only motivation to find a job in the US, with the current economic climate especially.
I agree with some points in your post, but not all.

An LLM can be a valuable asset. I can only speak for my own situation, but as a student from continental Europe an LLM from the US will help a great deal in finding top jobs in biglaw in my country. Recruiters see the foreign experience, the fluency in English and knowledge of common law/US law as a great asset.

Of course you have to be realistic and not pursue an LLM with as only motivation to find a job in the US, with the current economic climate especially.
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W2S
yes but the dude has as outlooks to go back to china to work for his government !

so tell me the relevancy of a Corporate LLm ?

why ? because it's Harvard ?

If i were planning to become a professionnal soccer player, is a Ph.D from MIT in economics essential for me ?

I have doubts about that...
yes but the dude has as outlooks to go back to china to work for his government !

so tell me the relevancy of a Corporate LLm ?

why ? because it's Harvard ?

If i were planning to become a professionnal soccer player, is a Ph.D from MIT in economics essential for me ?

I have doubts about that...
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Santa
Yeah well reading some questions and opinions in this forum I've got the same opinion ^_^
Yeah well reading some questions and opinions in this forum I've got the same opinion ^_^
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Hedek
W2S: Will people please stop resurrecting 4 year old threads?

I'm tempted to say, since the Chinese government itself is more or less the #1 international Chinese corporation, it actually makes a lot of sense to study corporate law in the US if you want to work for the Chinese government.

I agree Harvard (both LL.M and JD) is overrated, you don't get a much better education there than you would at other law schools.
There's a huge gap between the rational value of Harvard compared to other law schools and its actual/perceived value. Since, like it or not, the perception of others is the only thing that matters to find a job, that name is worth a lot.
Harvard happens to be the only law school that all people heard of abroad, and that's largely due to pop culture and movies, not rational law related data. With a Harvard LL.M on your resume, you can basically throw around your application in any country and get -at least- an interview just for this. Something even Yale and Stanford can't achieve in most countries.

And lastly, a few statistics for the sceptics:
- almost all professors in top 14 US law schools who do not hold a US JD have a top 14 LL.M, Harvard's professor Bebchuk (University of Tel-Aviv) probably being the most notable example.
- almost all new hires (after 2000) in European offices of US law firms have a US LL.M
(both of these statements can be easily verified by browsing the faculty and lawyers bios on their respective websites)
W2S: Will people please stop resurrecting 4 year old threads?

I'm tempted to say, since the Chinese government itself is more or less the #1 international Chinese corporation, it actually makes a lot of sense to study corporate law in the US if you want to work for the Chinese government.

I agree Harvard (both LL.M and JD) is overrated, you don't get a much better education there than you would at other law schools.
There's a huge gap between the rational value of Harvard compared to other law schools and its actual/perceived value. Since, like it or not, the perception of others is the only thing that matters to find a job, that name is worth a lot.
Harvard happens to be the only law school that all people heard of abroad, and that's largely due to pop culture and movies, not rational law related data. With a Harvard LL.M on your resume, you can basically throw around your application in any country and get -at least- an interview just for this. Something even Yale and Stanford can't achieve in most countries.

And lastly, a few statistics for the sceptics:
- almost all professors in top 14 US law schools who do not hold a US JD have a top 14 LL.M, Harvard's professor Bebchuk (University of Tel-Aviv) probably being the most notable example.
- almost all new hires (after 2000) in European offices of US law firms have a US LL.M
(both of these statements can be easily verified by browsing the faculty and lawyers bios on their respective websites)
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W2S
W2S: Will people please stop resurrecting 4 year old threads?

I'm tempted to say, since the Chinese government itself is more or less the #1 international Chinese corporation, it actually makes a lot of sense to study corporate law in the US if you want to work for the Chinese government.

I agree Harvard (both LL.M and JD) is overrated, you don't get a much better education there than you would at other law schools.
There's a huge gap between the rational value of Harvard compared to other law schools and its actual/perceived value. Since, like it or not, the perception of others is the only thing that matters to find a job, that name is worth a lot.
Harvard happens to be the only law school that all people heard of abroad, and that's largely due to pop culture and movies, not rational law related data. With a Harvard LL.M on your resume, you can basically throw around your application in any country and get -at least- an interview just for this. Something even Yale and Stanford can't achieve in most countries.

And lastly, a few statistics for the sceptics:
- almost all professors in top 14 US law schools who do not hold a US JD have a top 14 LL.M, Harvard's professor Bebchuk (University of Tel-Aviv) probably being the most notable example.
- almost all new hires (after 2000) in European offices of US law firms have a US LL.M
(both of these statements can be easily verified by browsing the faculty and lawyers bios on their respective websites)


funny, you ask to stop resurrecting old threads but in the meantime, you take part to reply, lolll.

I wrote a huge text to show why i don't agree with you but LLM GUIDE disconnect me so 'M boring to write it again...
<blockquote>W2S: Will people please stop resurrecting 4 year old threads?

I'm tempted to say, since the Chinese government itself is more or less the #1 international Chinese corporation, it actually makes a lot of sense to study corporate law in the US if you want to work for the Chinese government.

I agree Harvard (both LL.M and JD) is overrated, you don't get a much better education there than you would at other law schools.
There's a huge gap between the rational value of Harvard compared to other law schools and its actual/perceived value. Since, like it or not, the perception of others is the only thing that matters to find a job, that name is worth a lot.
Harvard happens to be the only law school that all people heard of abroad, and that's largely due to pop culture and movies, not rational law related data. With a Harvard LL.M on your resume, you can basically throw around your application in any country and get -at least- an interview just for this. Something even Yale and Stanford can't achieve in most countries.

And lastly, a few statistics for the sceptics:
- almost all professors in top 14 US law schools who do not hold a US JD have a top 14 LL.M, Harvard's professor Bebchuk (University of Tel-Aviv) probably being the most notable example.
- almost all new hires (after 2000) in European offices of US law firms have a US LL.M
(both of these statements can be easily verified by browsing the faculty and lawyers bios on their respective websites)</blockquote>

funny, you ask to stop resurrecting old threads but in the meantime, you take part to reply, lolll.

I wrote a huge text to show why i don't agree with you but LLM GUIDE disconnect me so 'M boring to write it again...
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Hedek
There's a difference between replying to a thread that's already in 1st position on page 1, and actually bringing back to page 1 a thread that hasn't been replied to since April.

Anyways, obviously discussing with you will benefit neither of us. We often read here and there that the LL.M is useless. I was merely trying to offer prospective students a different point of view.
There's a difference between replying to a thread that's already in 1st position on page 1, and actually bringing back to page 1 a thread that hasn't been replied to since April.

Anyways, obviously discussing with you will benefit neither of us. We often read here and there that the LL.M is useless. I was merely trying to offer prospective students a different point of view.
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W2S
I replied to this thread because it's barely credible to see how people supposed to be "out of the box" can be so "in the box" when they ask stupid questions.

I am chosen by Harvard, Yale , Columbia ,NYU and Stanford.

do I feel the need to launch a thread to show off under the pretext i have some doubts about my future and the need of a LLM degree?

Absolutely not.

to say the truth, I think that this kind of people are to be pitied.

ps: and if he was sincerely in his threas, He'll not add some extra elements ( like graduated with honours ), don't be worried, if you re chosen by Harvard and oxford, we re quite sure that you re in the top 5 of your law school promotion.

Further, if there is an unsaid rule which say " forbidden to resurrecting post" please show me it or explain me it.

sorry to be bothering you
I replied to this thread because it's barely credible to see how people supposed to be "out of the box" can be so "in the box" when they ask stupid questions.

I am chosen by Harvard, Yale , Columbia ,NYU and Stanford.

do I feel the need to launch a thread to show off under the pretext i have some doubts about my future and the need of a LLM degree?

Absolutely not.

to say the truth, I think that this kind of people are to be pitied.

ps: and if he was sincerely in his threas, He'll not add some extra elements ( like graduated with honours ), don't be worried, if you re chosen by Harvard and oxford, we re quite sure that you re in the top 5 of your law school promotion.

Further, if there is an unsaid rule which say " forbidden to resurrecting post" please show me it or explain me it.

sorry to be bothering you
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Hedek
- I don't disagree with everything you said, only with "LL.M = useless".
- We don't know whether the OP was really admitted or whether he was merely trying to "troll" (get people to debate and waste time on fictional stuff just for his own amusement).
- Even if he was admitted, no matter how cautious the admission committee was, they can't filter out all insecure kids who feel the need to showoff.
- You can of course reply to any thread you want, I was just expressing a wish: since the question was asked in 2005, by now he probably doesn't visit these boards anymore and if he does we must be offering a good laugh indeed. And I honestly doubt the information contained within this thread is useful to anyone (with all due respect to the contributors, and yes this includes my own replies to this thread).
- I don't disagree with everything you said, only with "LL.M = useless".
- We don't know whether the OP was really admitted or whether he was merely trying to "troll" (get people to debate and waste time on fictional stuff just for his own amusement).
- Even if he was admitted, no matter how cautious the admission committee was, they can't filter out all insecure kids who feel the need to showoff.
- You can of course reply to any thread you want, I was just expressing a wish: since the question was asked in 2005, by now he probably doesn't visit these boards anymore and if he does we must be offering a good laugh indeed. And I honestly doubt the information contained within this thread is useful to anyone (with all due respect to the contributors, and yes this includes my own replies to this thread).
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Everyone needs to note that the selection process is highly questionable.Not all equally outstanding applicants can get accepted,obviously,and the problems lies with the idiotic perceptions of the real world that Harvard means the best.Not really......It's the top dominant law firms,with their collegial networking from decades back,with forces the notion,and maintains the illusion that Harvard is the best.DON'T FEED THEIR EGO!!
Everyone needs to note that the selection process is highly questionable.Not all equally outstanding applicants can get accepted,obviously,and the problems lies with the idiotic perceptions of the real world that Harvard means the best.Not really......It's the top dominant law firms,with their collegial networking from decades back,with forces the notion,and maintains the illusion that Harvard is the best.DON'T FEED THEIR EGO!!
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UHUstic
Actually I found it fairly interesting... earlier in one of the responses, it is claimed that anyone who gets into Harvard also gets an offer from Oxford / Cambridge.


I don't know if this is meant to justify Harvard's status - it can only be at the same level if not above of those British Elite Institutions but I am pretty sure that is not the case.

One of my friends had been accepted into LLM Harvard but was rejected by Oxbridge.


Secondly, he has an overseas LLB from UK (not 1st hons either) but was not required to provides scores for LSAT / GRE at all for his application.

All he did was to write an essay accompanied with the application and a phone interview... then he received an offer to study LLM there.

Now, is he just pure genius or what?
Actually I found it fairly interesting... earlier in one of the responses, it is claimed that anyone who gets into Harvard also gets an offer from Oxford / Cambridge.


I don't know if this is meant to justify Harvard's status - it can only be at the same level if not above of those British Elite Institutions but I am pretty sure that is not the case.

One of my friends had been accepted into LLM Harvard but was rejected by Oxbridge.


Secondly, he has an overseas LLB from UK (not 1st hons either) but was not required to provides scores for LSAT / GRE at all for his application.

All he did was to write an essay accompanied with the application and a phone interview... then he received an offer to study LLM there.

Now, is he just pure genius or what?
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Akaaa
Actually now its 2015. Ten years ago this was started and it still remains unclear. Is there anyone who has HLS LLM exp to share with us? Not only on campus life and study but also what is going on after we take that degree. As we are paying a lot for this natural question is can it get repayed. I know this can depend but any shared experience is more than useful. Are there any chances in finding law jobs in NY after we finish it. Taking NY bar exam? European job chances? Its 2015 is situation with job market for foregn lawyers still as bad as it was few years ago... And whers that Kadif guy. :)
Actually now its 2015. Ten years ago this was started and it still remains unclear. Is there anyone who has HLS LLM exp to share with us? Not only on campus life and study but also what is going on after we take that degree. As we are paying a lot for this natural question is can it get repayed. I know this can depend but any shared experience is more than useful. Are there any chances in finding law jobs in NY after we finish it. Taking NY bar exam? European job chances? Its 2015 is situation with job market for foregn lawyers still as bad as it was few years ago... And whers that Kadif guy. :)
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Kitten
Yes, a Harvard LLM is worth every cent (at least for me). First, Harvard is a school that's universally recognized. I did my LLB in a developing country and frankly, no one outside my country cares if I graduated at the top of my class in the best law school in my country. It's the Harvard LLM that got me job interviews (outside my country). Second, I got a job (in one of the world's leading financial centers - not NYC) after my LLM that paid quite well so I was able to earn back everything that I had spent on the LLM after just one year on the job. If a Harvard LLM will open opportunities for you that simply did not exist before (as was the case for me), I highly recommend it. But if you intend to go back to your home country or to your old job, the ROI (return on investment) might not be so high.
Yes, a Harvard LLM is worth every cent (at least for me). First, Harvard is a school that's universally recognized. I did my LLB in a developing country and frankly, no one outside my country cares if I graduated at the top of my class in the best law school in my country. It's the Harvard LLM that got me job interviews (outside my country). Second, I got a job (in one of the world's leading financial centers - not NYC) after my LLM that paid quite well so I was able to earn back everything that I had spent on the LLM after just one year on the job. If a Harvard LLM will open opportunities for you that simply did not exist before (as was the case for me), I highly recommend it. But if you intend to go back to your home country or to your old job, the ROI (return on investment) might not be so high.
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Bosnalaw
Going into 50+k debt is not worth it, not even for HLS. It is just an LLM not a JD and what you get is:
- 1:100 chances for a job in the US/UK evem with a HLS LLM (if you have not secured a job already before comming to the US)
-depending on your resume maybe a chance for work in an international organisation but the jobs are limited, few of them are long term and the starting sallary is not great
- work back in your home country - if you got into harvard your chances for a good job at least in your home country were already at least good. HLS may improve them even further but because your work experience will usually be a limiting factor for the level you enter in the job market, the difference will not be great.
-to put LL.M.(Harvard) on your resume may bring you some clients in the long run if you start your own business back home, but for sure 50 000 dollar invested into your business would do the same - faster and more efficiently...

there are obviously some exeptions like certain organisations that would offer you a great starting sallary and where the llm could open some doors but for the majority of graduates the benefits are limited.
Also some people just want to do an LLM for their "personal development" or whatever... If you have a personal reason and don't care about themoney, then go for it. But noone should go into it with ilusions regarding great job chances afterwards. Btw. if you want to go into big law , columbia is the better choice. their alumni network is in this respect really strong in the US and worldwide...
Going into 50+k debt is not worth it, not even for HLS. It is just an LLM not a JD and what you get is:
- 1:100 chances for a job in the US/UK evem with a HLS LLM (if you have not secured a job already before comming to the US)
-depending on your resume maybe a chance for work in an international organisation but the jobs are limited, few of them are long term and the starting sallary is not great
- work back in your home country - if you got into harvard your chances for a good job at least in your home country were already at least good. HLS may improve them even further but because your work experience will usually be a limiting factor for the level you enter in the job market, the difference will not be great.
-to put LL.M.(Harvard) on your resume may bring you some clients in the long run if you start your own business back home, but for sure 50 000 dollar invested into your business would do the same - faster and more efficiently...

there are obviously some exeptions like certain organisations that would offer you a great starting sallary and where the llm could open some doors but for the majority of graduates the benefits are limited.
Also some people just want to do an LLM for their "personal development" or whatever... If you have a personal reason and don't care about themoney, then go for it. But noone should go into it with ilusions regarding great job chances afterwards. Btw. if you want to go into big law , columbia is the better choice. their alumni network is in this respect really strong in the US and worldwide...
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