International Law: Georgetown vs Harvard


Cindy
I tried to send the following message a few times now. I hope it will finally work!

I would appreciate to get your opinion.

What about choosing between Georgetown and Harvard for someone interested in International Law.

First, anybody would say Harvard for sure.

However, when we thing that many international organizations are in Washington DC (the city where Georgetown is located) and that Georgetown are contacts with those (this school offers you 2 credits in exchange of doing an externship with an international organization), it is not so evident.

My point is how to decide between a brand name as Harvard and Georgetown which helps you to have contacts in the international field.

Everyone knows contacts are one big factor (if not the biggest factor) to land a job in the United States after a LLM. Everyone knows that it is very hard to find a job in the US after a LLM. Then if a school can get you contacts in your field (international law), is it not a better option to go with this school (Georgetown) and not with THE brand name school (Harvard)?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is a question on which I could not find an answer.
I tried to send the following message a few times now. I hope it will finally work!

I would appreciate to get your opinion.

What about choosing between Georgetown and Harvard for someone interested in International Law.

First, anybody would say Harvard for sure.

However, when we thing that many international organizations are in Washington DC (the city where Georgetown is located) and that Georgetown are contacts with those (this school offers you 2 credits in exchange of doing an externship with an international organization), it is not so evident.

My point is how to decide between a brand name as Harvard and Georgetown which helps you to have contacts in the international field.

Everyone knows contacts are one big factor (if not the biggest factor) to land a job in the United States after a LLM. Everyone knows that it is very hard to find a job in the US after a LLM. Then if a school can get you contacts in your field (international law), is it not a better option to go with this school (Georgetown) and not with THE brand name school (Harvard)?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is a question on which I could not find an answer.

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Cindy
Nobody has an opinion on this?

Please, I need your help.

Considering that I will have only one day (or a few hours)between the admission decision from Harvard and my answer (and $500 deposit) to Georgetown, I must think now about how I should react in the case I would have the good surprise of being admitted by Harvard.
Nobody has an opinion on this?

Please, I need your help.

Considering that I will have only one day (or a few hours)between the admission decision from Harvard and my answer (and $500 deposit) to Georgetown, I must think now about how I should react in the case I would have the good surprise of being admitted by Harvard.
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RR LL.M.
Cindy: If you get accepted at Harvard, go to Harvard and even more if you want to get a job in the U.S. afterwards which I think is very hard. If a US firm is looking to hire a foreign LL.M. and two resumes end up on their hands, one with a Georgetown LL.M., the other with a Harvard LL.M, who do you think they´ll pick? I am sure that Harvard is going to have excellent proffesors in the field of International Law so for the quality of the education you don´t have to worry and the plus that Harvard has: the brand name "HARVARD" recognized in every corner of the world. Hope this helps and sorry for not having more productive comments on these two schools since I did not apply to any of them for personal reasons.
Cindy: If you get accepted at Harvard, go to Harvard and even more if you want to get a job in the U.S. afterwards which I think is very hard. If a US firm is looking to hire a foreign LL.M. and two resumes end up on their hands, one with a Georgetown LL.M., the other with a Harvard LL.M, who do you think they´ll pick? I am sure that Harvard is going to have excellent proffesors in the field of International Law so for the quality of the education you don´t have to worry and the plus that Harvard has: the brand name "HARVARD" recognized in every corner of the world. Hope this helps and sorry for not having more productive comments on these two schools since I did not apply to any of them for personal reasons.
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Cindy
Thank you very much for your answer, RR LL.M. Your answer makes sense, because Harvard is, as you say, "recognized in every corner of the world". In the balance between reputation and real professional contacts, it seems ok to reject Columbia (reputation) and accept Georgetown (real professional contacts), but it it seems silly to reject Harvard in favor of Georgetown for the same reasons.

I was only wondering, because it is so hard to find a job in the US (not all Harvard LLM students achieve to get one), maybe I should go with the school which will give me the opportunity to meet the right people in my field (the problem with Harvard is its location).

I also know some Fordham students who could lend a job in NY because of their contacts. It seems that a brand name is not always what it matters the most for a LLM foreign student. Plus, on many law school sites, it is said that you must develop contacts to have a chance to find a job in the US with a LLM.

That is why I am confused. Maybe alumni or current students at Harvard or Georgetown can state their opinion, or anybody else who would want to express his/her ideas.
Thank you very much for your answer, RR LL.M. Your answer makes sense, because Harvard is, as you say, "recognized in every corner of the world". In the balance between reputation and real professional contacts, it seems ok to reject Columbia (reputation) and accept Georgetown (real professional contacts), but it it seems silly to reject Harvard in favor of Georgetown for the same reasons.

I was only wondering, because it is so hard to find a job in the US (not all Harvard LLM students achieve to get one), maybe I should go with the school which will give me the opportunity to meet the right people in my field (the problem with Harvard is its location).

I also know some Fordham students who could lend a job in NY because of their contacts. It seems that a brand name is not always what it matters the most for a LLM foreign student. Plus, on many law school sites, it is said that you must develop contacts to have a chance to find a job in the US with a LLM.

That is why I am confused. Maybe alumni or current students at Harvard or Georgetown can state their opinion, or anybody else who would want to express his/her ideas.
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yueping
Although the layman you will cross on the street will know HARVARD because of its brand name, I believe that if you want to work in USA, having a strong alumni and professional contacts might be just as important, if not more.

And yes, even Harvard LLMs have difficulties in finding jobs in the US, so I believe that's where professional relations come in
Although the layman you will cross on the street will know HARVARD because of its brand name, I believe that if you want to work in USA, having a strong alumni and professional contacts might be just as important, if not more.

And yes, even Harvard LLMs have difficulties in finding jobs in the US, so I believe that's where professional relations come in
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us_llm_06
Hi,
a word of caution before you consider my answer: I have applied for the internationl law LLM and Georgetown and was admitted, so I am bias;)
I think Georgetown is a good choice for international law, because:
1. location
2. externship programs
3. look at the ranking regarding international law: Georgetown is always listed ahead of Harvard (in this category only!)
4. a brand new library specifically for international law-with library of congress around the corner!
5. so far I have only received pos information regarding the way LLMs are treated at Georgetown: unlike at other schools, they offer help and are indeed interested in them
6. when it comes to int law: look at the Professors-I am not comparing them to other schools, because all the top schools have excellent academics: but I believe there comes a point when you cannot rank them anymore. If a Professor has been lead council at the ICJ, or advior to the White House etc...
7. brand name is important, but especially for international law: if you wanna work in this area, people know each other and because it is different than corporate, I believe that actual education received is more important than the brand name
8. Location-for networking in international law, DC is excellent

Cheers,
Dom
Hi,
a word of caution before you consider my answer: I have applied for the internationl law LLM and Georgetown and was admitted, so I am bias;)
I think Georgetown is a good choice for international law, because:
1. location
2. externship programs
3. look at the ranking regarding international law: Georgetown is always listed ahead of Harvard (in this category only!)
4. a brand new library specifically for international law-with library of congress around the corner!
5. so far I have only received pos information regarding the way LLMs are treated at Georgetown: unlike at other schools, they offer help and are indeed interested in them
6. when it comes to int law: look at the Professors-I am not comparing them to other schools, because all the top schools have excellent academics: but I believe there comes a point when you cannot rank them anymore. If a Professor has been lead council at the ICJ, or advior to the White House etc...
7. brand name is important, but especially for international law: if you wanna work in this area, people know each other and because it is different than corporate, I believe that actual education received is more important than the brand name
8. Location-for networking in international law, DC is excellent

Cheers,
Dom
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Cindy
Thank you Yueping and USLLM06 for your answers.

It seems that my question is not an easy one. When I applied to schools, I did that with a project in mind; I did not choose schools somply based on a ranking system.

USLLM06, I agree with all your points. They are what it makes the choice harder.

I also was impressed by the huge number of international law courses proposed by Georgetown (nothing comparable with Columbia, NYU or Harvard).

Regarding your point 5, I already had this feeling which was confirmed by alumni. Georgetown allows you to be in contact with them to make your choice between schools easier. It is nice to be in a school which is supportive and shows interest in you (and not just in your money). For example, you can always meet staff members there to talk about your career or education.
I know some Americans who did a JD in another school. They met with an adviser only once during 5 minutes for their 3 years of law school.
I read on the site of Harvard, that if some students try to find a job in the US, Harvard expects you to go back to your country. It sounds as they won't be willing to help you a lot in your endeavor. It is like to say: "what you do after your LLM does not concern us."

Regarding your point 7, it is true that the international field is different. You can send a resume from Harvard to a NY law firm; you do not need to be in NY. In the international field, you need to work harder on your network. Cambridge or Boston are not the good place for that.

It seems that I won't find today a definitive answer to my question!
Thank you Yueping and USLLM06 for your answers.

It seems that my question is not an easy one. When I applied to schools, I did that with a project in mind; I did not choose schools somply based on a ranking system.

USLLM06, I agree with all your points. They are what it makes the choice harder.

I also was impressed by the huge number of international law courses proposed by Georgetown (nothing comparable with Columbia, NYU or Harvard).

Regarding your point 5, I already had this feeling which was confirmed by alumni. Georgetown allows you to be in contact with them to make your choice between schools easier. It is nice to be in a school which is supportive and shows interest in you (and not just in your money). For example, you can always meet staff members there to talk about your career or education.
I know some Americans who did a JD in another school. They met with an adviser only once during 5 minutes for their 3 years of law school.
I read on the site of Harvard, that if some students try to find a job in the US, Harvard expects you to go back to your country. It sounds as they won't be willing to help you a lot in your endeavor. It is like to say: "what you do after your LLM does not concern us."

Regarding your point 7, it is true that the international field is different. You can send a resume from Harvard to a NY law firm; you do not need to be in NY. In the international field, you need to work harder on your network. Cambridge or Boston are not the good place for that.

It seems that I won't find today a definitive answer to my question!
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RR LL.M.
I think your question has been answered by the recent posts of these greatly informed colleagues. GEORGETOWN!
I think your question has been answered by the recent posts of these greatly informed colleagues. GEORGETOWN!
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Cindy
Have you changed your mind RR LL.M.? Are you saying now Georgetown for my case?
Have you changed your mind RR LL.M.? Are you saying now Georgetown for my case?
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tmalmine
One more comment to this on-going brouhaha about Harvard v. GULC. I think one can plausibly argue that in studying public international law Georgetown is just as good as Harvard or even better. But I just want to remind Cindy of the fact that you don't necessarily want to do PIL for the rest of your life, or perhaps you don't make it to an international organization (though I have no doubt you will). If you then decide to apply for a law firm etc., Harvard degree might be better. Perhaps you might want to consider this aspect, too.
One more comment to this on-going brouhaha about Harvard v. GULC. I think one can plausibly argue that in studying public international law Georgetown is just as good as Harvard or even better. But I just want to remind Cindy of the fact that you don't necessarily want to do PIL for the rest of your life, or perhaps you don't make it to an international organization (though I have no doubt you will). If you then decide to apply for a law firm etc., Harvard degree might be better. Perhaps you might want to consider this aspect, too.
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Cindy
You are right, Tmalmine. I thought about that too.
It is what we call taking a risk to try to make our dreams come true.
I still do not know what I would do if Harvard would admit me.
However, I decided to accept the offer of Georgetown. I do not want to take the risk to lose my place.
Besides, Georgetown is aware that some people who pay the deposit won't enroll.
Plus, after the delay of Harvard, I am cautious now about the 29 march date; if we all call them the same day, we will have some difficulties to talk to them.
You are right, Tmalmine. I thought about that too.
It is what we call taking a risk to try to make our dreams come true.
I still do not know what I would do if Harvard would admit me.
However, I decided to accept the offer of Georgetown. I do not want to take the risk to lose my place.
Besides, Georgetown is aware that some people who pay the deposit won't enroll.
Plus, after the delay of Harvard, I am cautious now about the 29 march date; if we all call them the same day, we will have some difficulties to talk to them.
quote
RR LL.M.
Have you changed your mind RR LL.M.? Are you saying now Georgetown for my case?


As I said, I haven´t researched enough about GULC and their international law program so my response was based only on rankings and prestige. After reading us_llm_06 response, I´m figuring out that GULC is pretty strong in international law and is located in a great place to do networking with people specialized in that area. What about the new international law library? That´s really something. I´m a little skeptical about specializing too much. I graduated 4 years ago and in two weeks I will graduate from my master´s degree in taxation, a pretty specialized area of the law and one which I am passionate about. But even though I enjoy A LOT working in my area, I´m always investigating and reading about other areas, something I find really interesting and a lot of times opens my mind to think of new things that I could use for my own specialized work. This August I will be attending Duke Law School and I´m really open to sampling courses in other areas of the law, maybe even international law, actually the subject that I like to work the most is that of international taxation. In Law School I greatly enjoyed the course in conflicts of law, so that could be another one that I could enroll for. So for me it would be better to just get the best education offered. For me its Duke, I wanted a small program, in a small law school, with a great campus, affordable living, a great constitutional law proffessor (Chemerinsky), a great international tax law prof (Zelenak and Schmalbeck) and with no restrictions on the courses that you can take.
<blockquote>Have you changed your mind RR LL.M.? Are you saying now Georgetown for my case?</blockquote>

As I said, I haven´t researched enough about GULC and their international law program so my response was based only on rankings and prestige. After reading us_llm_06 response, I´m figuring out that GULC is pretty strong in international law and is located in a great place to do networking with people specialized in that area. What about the new international law library? That´s really something. I´m a little skeptical about specializing too much. I graduated 4 years ago and in two weeks I will graduate from my master´s degree in taxation, a pretty specialized area of the law and one which I am passionate about. But even though I enjoy A LOT working in my area, I´m always investigating and reading about other areas, something I find really interesting and a lot of times opens my mind to think of new things that I could use for my own specialized work. This August I will be attending Duke Law School and I´m really open to sampling courses in other areas of the law, maybe even international law, actually the subject that I like to work the most is that of international taxation. In Law School I greatly enjoyed the course in conflicts of law, so that could be another one that I could enroll for. So for me it would be better to just get the best education offered. For me its Duke, I wanted a small program, in a small law school, with a great campus, affordable living, a great constitutional law proffessor (Chemerinsky), a great international tax law prof (Zelenak and Schmalbeck) and with no restrictions on the courses that you can take.
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Cindy
It is great to have such an open-mind. It is true that you can benefit from other legal areas, because legal fields are connected together. If my will is to take many international law courses, I will take a few american law courses as well.
I also agree about restrictions on the courses. It is why I personally do not like the NYU International Law LLM program.
I am sure you will have a great time in Duke, because you made your choice based on personal considerations.
It is great to have such an open-mind. It is true that you can benefit from other legal areas, because legal fields are connected together. If my will is to take many international law courses, I will take a few american law courses as well.
I also agree about restrictions on the courses. It is why I personally do not like the NYU International Law LLM program.
I am sure you will have a great time in Duke, because you made your choice based on personal considerations.
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hectorlo
Hello, my name is Hector and I am a current LLM student at GULC, you can mail me if you need specific information about the LLM program in International Legal Studies. (hector@lawyer.com) Remember that choosing your law school is a very important desicion..
Hello, my name is Hector and I am a current LLM student at GULC, you can mail me if you need specific information about the LLM program in International Legal Studies. (hector@lawyer.com) Remember that choosing your law school is a very important desicion..
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