Haha! Thanks for the well-formatted and prompt response!

Would you have specific advice regarding getting a short-term US job for experience, considering you warn LLMs against disappointment? Also, how should you pace things for the New York Bar if you want to take it in, say, July 2007?

I do know my firm is not hiring LLMs. That doesnt mean there aren't any other firms out there hiring LLMs. If I come across any, I would post it here.
About NY bar, I am not the best person to answer this. I passed it many many years ago and that too I did it on the second attempt. But I am sure there are people on this site who have recently passed the bar and can answer that question better. Good luck!!

Just a quick question for clarification (just out of interest - I'm not planning to apply for any jobs in NY, I already have one in the UK), what do you mean, your firm is not hiring LLMs?
They have made an active decision - "we do not want anyone with an LLM"? Why? Surely if someone has an advanced degree on top of their law degree, that would only work in their favour?

Josepidal,
At my previous firm, associates turnover was so high that we used to joke that the only difference between and intern and an associate is that the intern knows he is temporary :-).

I will start with some brief details about my background, so that you can understand where I am coming from. I am from a developing country, I obtained my LLB from a top law school in England, and I am doing the LLM now at Harvard. I have never worked before, so I am one of those 23-year-old inexperienced youngsters in our class of extremely talented and accomplished people here. I received job offers from four top Wall Street law firms to join their New York offices permanently as an associate after my LLM (these are the most 'prestigious' jobs which pay $145,000!).

it's interesting how so much more liberal, progressive, and egalitarian the US is compared to Europe. having lived in the UK most of my life, Italy for 3 yrs, Switzerland for 1 yr, and the US for now 7 yrs, i think i'm in a position to say that all the European acrymony about how fairer a society it is, always compared to the US of course, is complete and utter BS! i have never once been concerned about my age (30 when I got my JD) here in the US - it's an absolute non issue, and it's even "illegal" for an employer to consider a resume/cv which has your date of birth or marital status on it (at least HR will can it!)

if i was back in Europe, i would definitely have to and be prepared to lie (w/in reason) about things like age, marital status. it is such a conservative old fashioned bigoted backwater over there. (maybe holland and scandinavia are more enlightened?)

but even then lawpartner, wouldn't you agree the JD would still have to be from a top10 school and your rank close to top 10% w/ law review and order-of-the-coif thrown in?

i took that path - LLB from UK, LLM from top-tier school (No.29 though! not a top10 school), then a JD from the same school, fluent english, fluent EU languages, prior work experience, order-of-barristers etc have spent the past 4 yrs since graduating working for 2 partners, as their only associate, in the middle of the southwestern desert, and not making much money at all. i even defaulted on my loans for almost 6 mths during my first year of practice it was that tight. mind you, i'm pretty happy where i am right now.

but, my experience (for what it's worth) is that there just isn't that much work out there, at least not where these posters are looking i.e., large regional/national/int'l firms, even for average or even above-average homegrown US JD students. you really have to be top10% from a JD program at a top10 school to really stand a realistic chance.

And about the age and an LLM (sans JD) applying for a US job: If I am reviewing a resume of an LLM, I make the following deductions...
1) If he is 22-23 and did an LLM, he had his father's money to burn
2) If he is above that age, then either he has an extremely generous father or an extremely impractical lending institute or has stacks of money himself.

In both of the above scenarios, I throw the resume in the trash can and start looking for a JD.

Seriously people, if a US job is your goal, LLM is NOT for you. Do a JD!!

Scandinavia is really liberal. It is no way legal to discriminate because of age, ethnicity or marital status. This has been an issue for a long time, because women in their mid 20's early 30's had problems getting corporate jobs (we have this 9-month fully paid maternity leave ). It is really about to change though. Mostly because overall more women than men graduate from law school, and with better grades. I have worked with Brits and you really notice the difference. Not in a bad way, just different. I have never worked in the US, but I have lived there, and I vow it is not as liberal as Scandinavia.

irishguy, did you ever get a response from gar33? It seems he disappeared after your post.

Ok, I tried to be nice. I tried to be reasonable. I even went through the posts and tried to remedy the misunderstandings that seemed to cause these unbelievably bitchy, childish, immature and idiotic rows. But that obviously isn't enough for some of the more annoying individuals on this forum. So when in Rome .....

First of all, gar33, please stop posting infantile responses. It's incredibly irritating to have to read through the rubbish and arrogant self promotion. I do not come here to read cat fights. OK!
Secondly, I would also like people to stop questioning and making fun of other peoples claims and credentials. You (gar33), dkvajil (spelt wrong) and shapiro (who is the resident grammar and spelling expert who can't spell) have been on a tirade about lawpartner not actually being a partner for a while now. If I chose to attack everyones claims on this board I could do so very easily, but I dont because I like to believe that people are honest and I'm not a bitter little pill.

For instance, gar33's claims of a summa cum laude from a European University. Unless you did law at the University of Zurich, I don't think there are actually any other Uni's that award this. If you are in UK, then the term is 1st Class Honours dear. And if you do have a summa cum laude from the University of Zurich, BIG DEAL!!!! This is the equivalent of a 1st Class Honours, which, as I am sure you are aware, are not actually that uncommon. 85% of Oxford and Cambridge graduates get one, 60% graduates from Trinity College Dublin and 30% of graduates from University College Dublin. You are on a forum talking to people who have been admitted to the top law schools in the US. Do you really think you are the only one here with that kind of qualification? Awwwwwwww bless!

Lots of people could go on about their own qualifications but they wont, and I certainly will never post about them here for a number of reasons. 1)There is no point. People on here dont need to hear about what I have done in the past; 2) It is an exceptionally arrogant and immature thing to do, and if you wouldn't do it in polite conversation with people you don't know, then you don't post it on here; 3) I am not foolish enough to believe that there is no-one better out there. FACT, no matter how brilliant you are, there is ALWAYS somewhere that little bit smarter or younger or more qualified. To think otherwise is not only naieve, but very very foolish.

I have a feeling I have just declared war, but to be honest I am so sick of the whining and idiotic postings that it might make life just that little bit more interesting. I actually can't wait to see the backlash. Let the games begin!

No response, and I really didnt want one either. It seems all is well once again here. I regret getting carried away, but I was so annoyed. Anyway, I'm just glad that the catiness seems to have stopped. Sorry to hear you wont be heading over to do the LL.M at CLS, but having read your reasons it seems like you are going what you know is best for you.

Getting jobs in the US (an likely Eu as well)
1) If you're social, good looking (and I do mean good-looking compared to other lawyers not the rest of the populace), and dress sharp you just need to meet the right people to land a fantastic job.

2) Everyone who got a JD from a top 10 law school received job offers including the idiots and poor students in those programs.

3) A LLM lets you sit for the bar in NY and gives you the chance to make contacts. If you don't take advantage of this please give me the $60k you plan to spend on the LLM at HLS.

4) Graduating from a top 10 schools with a JD or LLM does not make you a good lawyer. Working in a top 10 firm does not make you a good lawyer. However, either likely means you do work hard and long hours. That equals billables and that's the reason why big firms prosper.

5) Landing big law firm jobs is not always the best money. A colleague of mine turned down two big firm offers to join a medium firm. He made partner in 2 1/2 years and pulls down $750k+.

6) Making numbered lists is meaningless and repetitive.

7) All the 22-23 year olds with LLMs and these offers from big firms please direct me to their websites and which attorney profiles demonstrate this is true (PM me if you don't post it).

8) Likely 99% of the posts on this board are based on personal opinions and not empirical fact.

9) Most lawyers have no sense of humor and are ugly, which is why they became lawyers instead of businessmen.

10) Is a good number to end a list on.

Haha, that is just too funny! I am happy I am so beautiful ;)

hahahah thats hilarious!!

but to all my fellow llm applicants...........if george bush could make president not once..............but TWICE..........surely we llm's have some chance at a job:)!

Great post! I am also happy to be gorgeous!
It is a good lesson: people should not take themselves too seriously!

I second the BUSH post! :D

wow! what an interesting post. looks like i am very late for the show... but overall very informative and interesting post..

let me introduce myself. I am Rakesh Mehra from India, Bangalore. From NLS. Want to apply to HLS next year. Thats what brought me to this post. After reading some initial postings, I got so horriefied about HLS that almost changed my mind. But then the air cleared and by the time I reached the end, it is friendly again.

I agree with a lot of things said in this thread by hanneh, karamazov, lawpartner, Kazaf, Irishguy23 et al. What I dont agree with is Karamazov saying lawyers do not have a sense of humor. I died laughing while reading this post. My eyes still are watery from laughing so hard. You guys are funny. And informative too. All the best to all of us. Anyone here planning to apply to HLS next year?

(...) What I was taking issue with, following on from gar33's shock at the slight that it was a 'joke' that we 22 yearolds should have been admitted to Harvard, was that it is not necessary to be a top 10 solicitor or have started the first ever banking law module or advised the President on some legal issue (which are all mindblowingly impressive) to get into a US law firm. All I know, from solicitor's and barristers in the UK, is that if you applied to them, in your 30's, they would require some very serious justification as to why you were applying so late (most applicants being 22/23/24) and frankly, why you thought you needed to do an LLM at that stage either. By work experience I meant internships (essential) rather than having done some other job for a number of years (potential disadvantage in UK).

I guess the passage "it is not necessary to be a top 10 solicitor or have started the first ever banking law module" is about me and Igorek. To make my case precise - I was top 3 in age 31 (still being the youngest on the list) :) But you know how it is - being big fish in a small pond ...

As to your point - I did not dare to apply to HLS or any other top US school being 22/23 because I wouldn't have any chance to be admitted at that age. I simply wasn't ready (mature) untill my late 20'ties / early 30'ties.
The more I admire people who get to top schools LL.M. being so young.

I think that coming to HLS we all start over again.

As to your point - I did not dare to apply to HLS or any other top US school being 22/23 because I wouldn't have any chance to be admitted at that age. I simply wasn't ready (mature) untill my late 20'ties / early 30'ties.
The more I admire people who get to top schools LL.M. being so young.

hope to refresh my Russian over a beer some time :)
best regards

Thank you all for your contributions to this highly entertaining thread!

My humble opinion (as a 24 year old daddy's money-burner who used to hold a job offer from a big international law firm before he gave it up due to a change in personal circumstances) is that employability of a candidate in London, New York, Tokyo or Timbuctoo, should be judged by to a mixture of competency and personality. The top law firms in the UK give you ample opportunity on their application forms and indeed throughout their selection processes to show both off. I would be suprised if this is not the case elsewhere.

In the grand scheme of landing a job, an LLM credential is surely but a piece of the puzzle?! Personally I would not use an LLM to secure a job unless:

a) there was something specific linking the LLM to the job that I am applying for (and I can use that link to demonstrate that I bring something weighty to the table) OR

b) I needed to bolster my academic record

But hey, that's just me!

All the best.

Hi everyone, I'm new to this and I have a couple of questions. I'm a law student in Croatia, due to graduate in July. What are my chances of getting into a LLM programme at HLS and what kind of activities should I engage in to enchance my rating before the admissions comitee. Should it be somekind of legal work here in Croatia or would they be more interested if I had working experience abroad(in a form of an internship or so)? I talked to a guy who pursued a JD degree at HLS and he told me that being from Croatia, a country from which there aren't many applicants, would give me a head start. Is he right or is he just trying to make me feel better?I'm resonably fluent in English and obtaining a TOEFL wouldn't be a problem. If u have any other information or suggestions,including:don't even bother with HLS and try somewhere else in Europe, please tell me, I would be grateful.
Thanks