Harvard 2021-2022


Lawyerke

@Sherlocked, let's wait and see. All the best to you and everyone here :)


<div>@Sherlocked, let's wait and see. All the best to you and everyone here :)<br></div><div><br></div><div>
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Hahaha @laweyerke, never intended to put people out of business 1f602

You think it's today? Let's see! All the best to you 1f603


My guess is within this week. 

[quote]Hahaha @laweyerke, never intended to put people out of business&nbsp;:joy:.&nbsp;<br><br>You think it's today? Let's see! All the best to you&nbsp;:smiley: [/quote]<br><br>My guess is within this week.&nbsp;
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Barnsworth

Any bets today, mates? 1f61c


I have a feeling it won't be today; I reckon it'll be next Monday on the 22nd. 

[quote]Any bets today, mates?&nbsp;:stuck-out-tongue-winking-eye: [/quote]<br><br>I have a feeling it won't be today; I reckon it'll be next Monday on the 22nd.&nbsp;
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Sherlocked

1f64223f3

:slightly-smiling-face::hourglass-not-done:
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Wolfenok

I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe.

I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe.
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evp

All the guessing isn't helping :) 

[Edited by evp on Mar 17, 2021]

All the guessing isn't helping :)&nbsp;
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7860

I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe.


There are 3 modes for an applicant to be in:

1) Acceptance
2) Awaiting a reply
3) Rejection

Of the three states possible, we are currently in silver medal position. 

For when judgment arrives, we will either be elated or yearn for the days where we were out in the cold unknown, but comforted by the warmth of our good friend: hope. 

[quote]I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe. [/quote]<br><br>There are 3 modes for an applicant to be in:<br><br>1) Acceptance<br>2) Awaiting a reply<br>3) Rejection<br><br>Of the three states possible, we are currently in silver medal position.&nbsp;<br><br>For when judgment arrives, we will either be elated or yearn for the days where we were out in the cold unknown, but comforted by the warmth of our good friend: hope.&nbsp;
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Sherlocked

@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil? 1f602

Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted"

[Edited by Sherlocked on Mar 17, 2021]

@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil?&nbsp;:joy:<br><br>Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted"
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LLM2021/22

I didn't apply to Harvard but even I'm stressed for you guys.

I didn't apply to Harvard but even I'm stressed for you guys.
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Barnsworth

All the guessing isn't helping :) 


You're right! Sorry!

[quote]All the guessing isn't helping :)&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>You're right! Sorry!
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Barnsworth

I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe.


On balance, I really enjoyed writing the personal statement. It was a wonderful opportunity and I enjoyed trying to write something important, thought-provoking and innovative! I also really enjoyed part B, as I I had to reflect a lot on myself. So, the experience thus far has been super positive, regardless of the eventual acceptance or non-acceptance.

[quote]I don't expect to be admitted, but it's so nice to participate in this conversation, hehe. [/quote]<br><br>On balance, I really enjoyed writing the personal statement. It was a wonderful opportunity and I enjoyed trying to write something important, thought-provoking and innovative! I also really enjoyed part B, as I I had to reflect a lot on myself. So, the experience thus far has been super positive, regardless of the eventual acceptance or non-acceptance.
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7860

@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil? 1f602

Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted"


ahaha - a waitlist must be number four on the list. 

Btw has anyone ever heard of Harvard giving conditional offers e.g. you have to get a distinction in an LLB (if not competed), or above 67 (UK grading) in an MA?

Also, to add to what @Invis../ @Bansworth are saying - what I liked about the personal statements is that they actually allow you to articulate your hopes for an ideal legal career (rather than one bogged down in practicalities). In the UK, a lot of people are drawn to the law out of social conscience but after their three year LLB they face a competitive job market, cost pressures of living in cities (e.g. London) and "prestige" considerations which seem to have been accentuated by the Instagram age in which we live. 

This culture has led many of the people who had spoken of human rights, the ICC, constitutional law or even "helping the underdog", in their UCAS forms to be cajoled towards huge "biglaw" corporate firms. Of course, there is nothing wrong in such a career and many find it fulfilling but I assume (as is always the case) money has seduced some of those who wanted to use law as a vehicle for change, to join firms which use law as (i) a means for consolidating power, or (ii) as a weapon to marginalise the already disenfranchised (and to me, these two options seem pretty exhaustive). 

I assume our personal statements serve as a canvas as to what is possible, catalysed by the ecosystem we hope to be part of at Harvard. Although institutional legitimisation has waned in recent years, I think for Law it will remain more resolute than, for example, in business (i.e. a Harvard MBA is probably not as sought after as it was in the 2000s). Whereas in Law, because of the entrenched nature of legislation and the cosy relationship between legislators and institutions such as Harvard, HLS's reputation is here to stay for many years. 

Our personal statements are like a wish list for ourselves, and we have subconsciously internalised HLS as a Santa Clause - and we await judgement as to whether we have been naughty or nice. 

[Edited by 7860 on Mar 17, 2021]

[quote]@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil?&nbsp;:joy:<br><br>Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted" [/quote]<br><br>ahaha - a waitlist must be number four on the list.&nbsp;<br><br>Btw has anyone ever heard of Harvard giving conditional offers e.g. you have to get a distinction in an LLB (if not competed), or above 67 (UK grading) in an MA?<br><br>Also, to add to what @Invis../ @Bansworth are saying - what I liked about the personal statements is that they actually allow you to articulate your hopes for an ideal legal career (rather than one bogged down in practicalities). In the UK, a lot of people are drawn to the law out of social conscience but after their three year LLB they face a competitive job market, cost pressures of living in cities (e.g. London) and "prestige" considerations which seem to have been accentuated by the Instagram age in which we live.&nbsp;<br><br>This culture has led many of the people who had spoken of human rights, the ICC, constitutional law or even "helping the underdog", in their UCAS forms to be cajoled towards huge "biglaw" corporate firms. Of course, there is nothing wrong in such a career and many find it fulfilling but I assume (as is always the case) money has seduced some of those who wanted to use law as a vehicle for change, to join firms which use law as (i) a means for consolidating power, or (ii) as a weapon to marginalise the already disenfranchised (and to me, these two options seem pretty exhaustive).&nbsp;<br><br>I assume our personal statements serve as a canvas as to what is possible, catalysed by the ecosystem we hope to be part of at Harvard. Although institutional legitimisation has waned in recent years, I think for Law it will remain more resolute than, for example, in business (i.e. a Harvard MBA is probably not as sought after as it was in the 2000s). Whereas in Law, because of the entrenched nature of legislation and the cosy relationship between legislators and institutions such as Harvard, HLS's reputation is here to stay for many years.&nbsp;<br><br>Our personal statements are like a wish list for ourselves, and we have subconsciously internalised HLS as a Santa Clause - and we await judgement as to whether we have been naughty or nice.&nbsp;
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Barnsworth

@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil? 1f602

Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted"


ahaha - a waitlist must be number four on the list. 

Btw has anyone ever heard of Harvard giving conditional offers e.g. you have to get a distinction in an LLB (if not competed), or above 67 (UK grading) in an MA?

Also, to add to what @Invis../ @Bansworth are saying - what I liked about the personal statements is that they actually allow you to articulate your hopes for an ideal legal career (rather than one bogged down in practicalities). In the UK, a lot of people are drawn to the law out of social conscience but after their three year LLB they face a competitive job market, cost pressures of living in cities (e.g. London) and "prestige" considerations which seem to have been accentuated by the Instagram age in which we live. 

This culture has led many of the people who had spoken of human rights, the ICC, constitutional law or even "helping the underdog", in their UCAS forms to be cajoled towards huge "biglaw" corporate firms. Of course, there is nothing wrong in such a career and many find it fulfilling but I assume (as is always the case) money has seduced some of those who wanted to use law as a vehicle for change, to join firms which use law as (i) a means for consolidating power, or (ii) as a weapon to marginalise the already disenfranchised (and to me, these two options seem pretty exhaustive). 

I assume our personal statements serve as a canvas as to what is possible, catalysed by the ecosystem we hope to be part of at Harvard. Although institutional legitimisation has waned in recent years, I think for Law it will remain more resolute than, for example, in business (i.e. a Harvard MBA is probably not as sought after as it was in the 2000s). Whereas in Law, because of the entrenched nature of legislation and the cosy relationship between legislators and institutions such as Harvard, HLS's reputation is here to stay for many years. 

Our personal statements are like a wish list for ourselves, and we have subconsciously internalised HLS as a Santa Clause - and we await judgement as to whether we have been naughty or nice. 



As a student at a British University I can't help but agree. I do think a lot of people are drawn to the law through social conscience. I don't think it's necesarily the competitive job market that makes people go into the corporate world, but rather, the think that there is so much bureaucracy to attend with even within human rights. It's difficult to get jobs in 'socially conscious' roles,  often they won't pay for the travel costs you'll need, and the corporate firms will. 


I'm not sure how I agree with the notion that the corporate entities  or as you suggest 'big law' firms are marginalising the disenfranchising or denigrating an otherwise pious legal system. I think there's a need for law, no matter what situation an individual, or a corporate entity finds themselves in.  It wasn't until I studied corporate law that I realised that perhaps the law is what stops a lot of the arbitrary power of corporations from ensuing. 

With the advent of ESG as well, I think there are a lot of opportunities within corporate entities (no matter how Machiavellian they may seem) to do good. I suppose the issue that you've picked up on is that a lot of individuals see what they do as a reflection of their character. SO they'll invoke the ICC, the 'underdog', but I suppose a large benefit of studying law is realising that it is not black, white or grey, but rather... it is whatever you're being paid to argue that it is! Haha!!

[quote][quote]@7860, have you applied for an LL.M or an M.Phil?&nbsp;:joy:<br><br>Also, you missed the golden one which is the worst: "Waitlisted" [/quote]<br><br>ahaha - a waitlist must be number four on the list.&nbsp;<br><br>Btw has anyone ever heard of Harvard giving conditional offers e.g. you have to get a distinction in an LLB (if not competed), or above 67 (UK grading) in an MA?<br><br>Also, to add to what @Invis../ @Bansworth are saying - what I liked about the personal statements is that they actually allow you to articulate your hopes for an ideal legal career (rather than one bogged down in practicalities). In the UK, a lot of people are drawn to the law out of social conscience but after their three year LLB they face a competitive job market, cost pressures of living in cities (e.g. London) and "prestige" considerations which seem to have been accentuated by the Instagram age in which we live.&nbsp;<br><br>This culture has led many of the people who had spoken of human rights, the ICC, constitutional law or even "helping the underdog", in their UCAS forms to be cajoled towards huge "biglaw" corporate firms. Of course, there is nothing wrong in such a career and many find it fulfilling but I assume (as is always the case) money has seduced some of those who wanted to use law as a vehicle for change, to join firms which use law as (i) a means for consolidating power, or (ii) as a weapon to marginalise the already disenfranchised (and to me, these two options seem pretty exhaustive).&nbsp;<br><br>I assume our personal statements serve as a canvas as to what is possible, catalysed by the ecosystem we hope to be part of at Harvard. Although institutional legitimisation has waned in recent years, I think for Law it will remain more resolute than, for example, in business (i.e. a Harvard MBA is probably not as sought after as it was in the 2000s). Whereas in Law, because of the entrenched nature of legislation and the cosy relationship between legislators and institutions such as Harvard, HLS's reputation is here to stay for many years.&nbsp;<br><br>Our personal statements are like a wish list for ourselves, and we have subconsciously internalised HLS as a Santa Clause - and we await judgement as to whether we have been naughty or nice.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br><br>As a student at a British University I can't help but agree. I do think a lot of people are drawn to the law through social conscience. I don't think it's necesarily the competitive job market that makes people go into the corporate world, but rather, the think that there is so much bureaucracy to attend with even within human rights. It's difficult to get jobs in 'socially conscious' roles,&nbsp; often they won't pay for the travel costs you'll need, and the corporate firms will.&nbsp;<br><br><br>I'm not sure how I agree with the notion that the corporate entities&nbsp; or as you suggest 'big law' firms are marginalising the disenfranchising or denigrating an otherwise pious legal system. I think there's a need for law, no matter what situation an individual, or a corporate entity finds themselves in.&nbsp; It wasn't until I studied corporate law that I realised that perhaps the law is what stops a lot of the arbitrary power of corporations from ensuing.&nbsp;<br><br>With the advent of ESG as well, I think there are a lot of opportunities within corporate entities (no matter how Machiavellian they may seem) to do good. I suppose the issue that you've picked up on is that a lot of individuals see what they do as a reflection of their character. SO they'll invoke the ICC, the 'underdog', but I suppose a large benefit of studying law is realising that it is not black, white or grey, but rather... it is whatever you're being paid to argue that it is! Haha!!
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7860

Completely agree with everything.

Especially the ESG comment, I honestly think the entire space of “impact investing” is ripe for some sort of legal codification. Right now it all seems a bit Wild West, but I assume the next 4 or 5 years will see the crystallisation of the concept - that is actually one of the things I wrote about on my Santa wish list.

I also think potentially another contributing factor to the aforementioned corporate conscious drain is the nature of the legal space in the UK. Whereas in the US there seems to be some synonymous-ness between social activism and law, if you read judgments from Diplock, Denning, Haldane... all the way to Sumption - I feel the legal culture of the UK is inherently conservative when it comes to viewing law as a vehicle for change (which has its merits and demerits). I think there seems to be a sense that the law is the law and politics is politics, any conflation is contrary to the ivory tower in which we reside.

Having said that, £ for £ I would prefer the UK system and I think you can take politicisation a bit too far a la SCOTUS.

Completely agree with everything.<br><br>Especially the ESG comment, I honestly think the entire space of “impact investing” is ripe for some sort of legal codification. Right now it all seems a bit Wild West, but I assume the next 4 or 5 years will see the crystallisation of the concept - that is actually one of the things I wrote about on my Santa wish list.<br><br>I also think potentially another contributing factor to the aforementioned corporate conscious drain is the nature of the legal space in the UK. Whereas in the US there seems to be some synonymous-ness between social activism and law, if you read judgments from Diplock, Denning, Haldane... all the way to Sumption - I feel the legal culture of the UK is inherently conservative when it comes to viewing law as a vehicle for change (which has its merits and demerits). I think there seems to be a sense that the law is the law and politics is politics, any conflation is contrary to the ivory tower in which we reside.<br><br>Having said that, £ for £ I would prefer the UK system and I think you can take politicisation a bit too far a la SCOTUS.
quote

Thank you guys for the above posts. I think exchanging of such insightful thoughts with the future classmates like you is exactly one of the reasons that we pursue the LL.M. in such an unusual year (particularly considering the pandemic is not totally under control). Each of you makes this thread valuable for the future applicants of HLS and convinces me that applying the school is definitely worth of the time & monetary investment. Cheers!

[Edited by InvisibleRenaissance on Mar 17, 2021]

Thank you guys for the above posts. I think exchanging of such insightful thoughts with the future classmates like you is exactly one of the reasons that we pursue the LL.M. in such an unusual year (particularly considering the pandemic is not totally under control). Each of you makes this thread valuable for the future applicants of HLS and convinces me that applying the school is definitely worth of the time &amp; monetary investment. Cheers!<br>
quote
Barnsworth

Completely agree with everything.

Especially the ESG comment, I honestly think the entire space of “impact investing” is ripe for some sort of legal codification. Right now it all seems a bit Wild West, but I assume the next 4 or 5 years will see the crystallisation of the concept - that is actually one of the things I wrote about on my Santa wish list.

I also think potentially another contributing factor to the aforementioned corporate conscious drain is the nature of the legal space in the UK. Whereas in the US there seems to be some synonymous-ness between social activism and law, if you read judgments from Diplock, Denning, Haldane... all the way to Sumption - I feel the legal culture of the UK is inherently conservative when it comes to viewing law as a vehicle for change (which has its merits and demerits). I think there seems to be a sense that the law is the law and politics is politics, any conflation is contrary to the ivory tower in which we reside.

Having said that, £ for £ I would prefer the UK system and I think you can take politicisation a bit too far a la SCOTUS.


Yeah, I agree with the above. I think that the British legal system  has contributed a lot towards the betterment of society overall. I think the same can be said for the US system especially when one considers critical legal studies and critical race theory. I think aside from the arguments of legal positivism vs natural law, we all sort of have to understand the overriding theories of 'justice' and sometimes, we're not taught to contextualise this within the economic system we find ourselves in. I think what you're touching on is the fact that we rarely turn on the neoliberal mode when we're studying in law school. So, of course, students sort of want to commodify the notion of having an ethical external self. 

I do think you're right about the conservative nature of members of the legal hierarchy, which also a lot of do with legal pedagogy and how we're taught to understand the world from a legal view. We're living in a world where the dominant economic system confers us to be consumers as opposed to citizens. Because of this our understanding of ourselves within the broadner idea of society is atomised, so we feel demoralised and powerless. I think that for a lot of prospective law students, we often feel that we have the ability to overcome that by making 'our' part of the world one where we disperse justice.

This is part of the reason why Harvard looks brilliant, aside from what you mentioned in your earlier post about it's entrenchment as a 'powerful' institution. There are loads of genuinely fascinating courses, like there's a module entitled something like 'Capitalism and the Law'. And I think moreover, just some great opportunities to learn and contribute quite a lot. But alas, even if we do or do not get in, there are always opportunities to develop those sorts of faculties within ourselves. 

Harvard would be great, not merely because it's a nice looking badge, but because the law school does fascinating research. But sometimes it's hard not to value something because of what league tables or others say about it, but at the end of the day we're all individuals and even the fact we've applied is a great achievment! 

[quote]Completely agree with everything.<br><br>Especially the ESG comment, I honestly think the entire space of “impact investing” is ripe for some sort of legal codification. Right now it all seems a bit Wild West, but I assume the next 4 or 5 years will see the crystallisation of the concept - that is actually one of the things I wrote about on my Santa wish list.<br><br>I also think potentially another contributing factor to the aforementioned corporate conscious drain is the nature of the legal space in the UK. Whereas in the US there seems to be some synonymous-ness between social activism and law, if you read judgments from Diplock, Denning, Haldane... all the way to Sumption - I feel the legal culture of the UK is inherently conservative when it comes to viewing law as a vehicle for change (which has its merits and demerits). I think there seems to be a sense that the law is the law and politics is politics, any conflation is contrary to the ivory tower in which we reside.<br><br>Having said that, £ for £ I would prefer the UK system and I think you can take politicisation a bit too far a la SCOTUS. [/quote]<br><br>Yeah, I agree with the above. I think that the British legal system&nbsp; has contributed a lot towards the betterment of society overall. I think the same can be said for the US system especially when one considers critical legal studies and critical race theory. I think aside from the arguments of legal positivism vs natural law, we all sort of have to understand the overriding theories of 'justice' and sometimes, we're not taught to contextualise this within the economic system we find ourselves in. I think what you're touching on is the fact that we rarely turn on the neoliberal mode when we're studying in law school. So, of course, students sort of want to commodify the notion of having an ethical external self.&nbsp;<br><br>I do think you're right about the conservative nature of members of the legal hierarchy, which also a lot of do with legal pedagogy and how we're taught to understand the world from a legal view. We're living in a world where the dominant economic system confers us to be consumers as opposed to citizens. Because of this our understanding of ourselves within the broadner idea of society is atomised, so we feel demoralised and powerless. I think that for a lot of prospective law students, we often feel that we have the ability to overcome that by making 'our' part of the world one where we disperse justice.<br><br>This is part of the reason why Harvard looks brilliant, aside from what you mentioned in your earlier post about it's entrenchment as a 'powerful' institution. There are loads of genuinely fascinating courses, like there's a module entitled something like 'Capitalism and the Law'. And I think moreover, just some great opportunities to learn and contribute quite a lot. But alas, even if we do or do not get in, there are always opportunities to develop those sorts of faculties within ourselves.&nbsp;<br><br>Harvard would be great, not merely because it's a nice looking badge, but because the law school does fascinating research. But sometimes it's hard not to value something because of what league tables or others say about it, but at the end of the day we're all individuals and even the fact we've applied is a great achievment!&nbsp;
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Barnsworth

Thanks you guys for the above posts. I think exchanging of such insightful thoughts with the future classmates like you is exactly one of the reasons that we pursue the LL.M. in such an unusual year (particularly considering the pandemic is not totally under control). Each of you make this thread valuable for the future applicants of HLS and convince me that applying the school is definitely worth of the time & monetary investment. Cheers!


What a lovely thing to say! By the looks of it you've done tremendously well so far in your LLM search! You should be so proud of yourself!

[quote]Thanks you guys for the above posts. I think exchanging of such insightful thoughts with the future classmates like you is exactly one of the reasons that we pursue the LL.M. in such an unusual year (particularly considering the pandemic is not totally under control). Each of you make this thread valuable for the future applicants of HLS and convince me that applying the school is definitely worth of the time &amp; monetary investment. Cheers!<br> [/quote]<br><br>What a lovely thing to say! By the looks of it you've done tremendously well so far in your LLM search! You should be so proud of yourself!
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iris9

Hello everyone! Are you able to log in to Harvard's applications portal? When I try to log in the following message appears: "You have entered an invalid email address or password". However, I am certain that I am using the correct email address and password (I logged in yesterday). Is anyone else having this issue?

Hello everyone! Are you able to log in to Harvard's applications portal? When I try to log in the following message appears: "You have entered an invalid email address or password". However, I am certain that I am using the correct email address and password (I logged in yesterday). Is anyone else having this issue?
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Barnsworth

Hello everyone! Are you able to log in to Harvard's applications portal? When I try to log in the following message appears: "You have entered an invalid email address or password". However, I am certain that I am using the correct email address and password (I logged in yesterday). Is anyone else having this issue?


I've just logged in with no issue

[quote]Hello everyone! Are you able to log in to Harvard's applications portal? When I try to log in the following message appears: "You have entered an invalid email address or password". However, I am certain that I am using the correct email address and password (I logged in yesterday). Is anyone else having this issue? [/quote]<br><br>I've just logged in with no issue
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jeadec

Works fine for me too. My heart stopped for a minute though ;)

Works fine for me too. My heart stopped for a minute though ;)
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