Foreign lawyer in the US? You don't need LLM.


Romy_BA

Smasrtguy, would you mind telling us what are you doing in the US? What is your position now (student or lawyer) and why did you move to the US? Thanks

Maria,
I am sorry for the lyrical introduction to my lify. As for your question: I am currently employed as legal assistant and i am studying for upcoming CA Bar exam in late July. Last August I passed Multistate Professional Responsibility Exam which is part of admission requirements in most States. It was quite easy.


Hi Smartguy, and congrats on your achievements!
I'm an Argentine attorney living in the US for the past 6 years. I'm in Miami, FL, and I'm currently working as a Court Interpreter. I'd really like to know more about passing the Lousinana Bar without getting a JD/LLM. Does anyone know somebody that actually did this?

Take care,

Romy

<blockquote><blockquote>Smasrtguy, would you mind telling us what are you doing in the US? What is your position now (student or lawyer) and why did you move to the US? Thanks</blockquote>
Maria,
I am sorry for the lyrical introduction to my lify. As for your question: I am currently employed as legal assistant and i am studying for upcoming CA Bar exam in late July. Last August I passed Multistate Professional Responsibility Exam which is part of admission requirements in most States. It was quite easy.
</blockquote>

Hi Smartguy, and congrats on your achievements!
I'm an Argentine attorney living in the US for the past 6 years. I'm in Miami, FL, and I'm currently working as a Court Interpreter. I'd really like to know more about passing the Lousinana Bar without getting a JD/LLM. Does anyone know somebody that actually did this?

Take care,

Romy
quote
uiefha.1

Really, it doesn't matter so much if you study LLM or JURIS DOCTOR.
If you want to be lawyer in US, you must write, read, and speak as an american lawyer. It is the truth.

How you become lisenced doesn't matter so much.... if you fight in the court and defend your client as an american lawyer.

You can be approved by California, New York,,,, but for that you will need to write maybe better than in your own language.

Really, it doesn't matter so much if you study LLM or JURIS DOCTOR.
If you want to be lawyer in US, you must write, read, and speak as an american lawyer. It is the truth.

How you become lisenced doesn't matter so much.... if you fight in the court and defend your client as an american lawyer.

You can be approved by California, New York,,,, but for that you will need to write maybe better than in your own language.

quote

hey .. i am an american citizen who resides in pakistan.. i did my LLB (3 yrs) from University of London External System in 2009.. i have got enrolled in the Pakistan Bar Association here as well and am a licensed lawyer therefore. now i want to shift to the USA permanently. now i know that the LLM in USA carries no weightage and is just a waste of money .. so i was wondering that what would be best for me .. i am more interested in practicing in Florida or maybe Texas.. so wat should be my route .. should i go for the CA bar and then maybe go for immigration law side .. or should i go for my JD ? As i am just 21 yrs old and i just have a 1 yr litigation experience at most . what do u think wud be a good option for me to secure a good job in a US law firm? ..

hey .. i am an american citizen who resides in pakistan.. i did my LLB (3 yrs) from University of London External System in 2009.. i have got enrolled in the Pakistan Bar Association here as well and am a licensed lawyer therefore. now i want to shift to the USA permanently. now i know that the LLM in USA carries no weightage and is just a waste of money .. so i was wondering that what would be best for me .. i am more interested in practicing in Florida or maybe Texas.. so wat should be my route .. should i go for the CA bar and then maybe go for immigration law side .. or should i go for my JD ? As i am just 21 yrs old and i just have a 1 yr litigation experience at most . what do u think wud be a good option for me to secure a good job in a US law firm? ..
quote

Hi everybody! I need some advice, I'm a peruvian lawyer, and I've been in California for 1year but my english is not good enough, and I was looking for a job as a legal assistant for many months without success. Can anybody give me some advice, how and where should I apply, how to find offers for spanish speakers?

Hi everybody! I need some advice, I'm a peruvian lawyer, and I've been in California for 1year but my english is not good enough, and I was looking for a job as a legal assistant for many months without success. Can anybody give me some advice, how and where should I apply, how to find offers for spanish speakers?
quote

HI I am lawyer from India with 6 years of practice and 2 years of teaching experience I am alreday LLM. I wish to practice law in US and also if any teaching option is opne. I went through this informative theard.

Could you guys guide me :

1. What are my option open in teaching ? Any source I can find H1 Visa?

2. on qualifying Bar Exam, how to get in US and whats the percentage of getting job at law Firm without LLM?

3. Should I opt for LLM in US then Bar Exam for a job a good law firm?

4. What else is way to get IN US and write Bar instead of LLM/ JD?
5. UPon admision to LLM, is there any mean I can work and make my tution fees?

6. generally its said Bar Exam esp NY is very difficult? Your take

Kindly reply ASAP if you could. I am on verge of making decision for admission to law school. I am interested to make it to a good law firm and not to return to India empty handed

HI I am lawyer from India with 6 years of practice and 2 years of teaching experience I am alreday LLM. I wish to practice law in US and also if any teaching option is opne. I went through this informative theard.

Could you guys guide me :

1. What are my option open in teaching ? Any source I can find H1 Visa?

2. on qualifying Bar Exam, how to get in US and whats the percentage of getting job at law Firm without LLM?

3. Should I opt for LLM in US then Bar Exam for a job a good law firm?

4. What else is way to get IN US and write Bar instead of LLM/ JD?
5. UPon admision to LLM, is there any mean I can work and make my tution fees?

6. generally its said Bar Exam esp NY is very difficult? Your take

Kindly reply ASAP if you could. I am on verge of making decision for admission to law school. I am interested to make it to a good law firm and not to return to India empty handed
quote
star71

Hi smartguy,

You seem to know a lot. Can you please advice me as to the following questions:
--What are the job oppurtunities for a foreign lawyer in the US(with or without LLM)?
--What sort of salaries can they expect after clearing the Bar?
--How easy it is to get a job? Can you rate it on a scale of 10?
--Are there any particular practice areas in which foreign lawyers have a better chance of getting a job? Conversely, are there any areas which are a strict no-no for foreign lawyers?
--Can foreign lawyers expect to make it big in the field of litigation?
--Is there any sort of bias against foreign lawyers especially against asians?

Your advice is highly appreciated. Thanks. Cheers!



Intuition whispers to my ear you have never been to the us before. am i right?
let's start with simple facts. once you get admitted you're not foreign attorney anymore.
if you are looking for self employed carrering i doubt your client will ever inquire which school have you graduated from.
if you're looking for employment in top notch law firms... well you have to be damn good... at least better than your other American candidates.
as for money i think with no substantial experience you can start with $2,500-3,000/month.
Litigation is not the field where you can make big money, i would say Intellectual Property is the most money attractive field now.
Believe me you will not be able to handle 8 hours deposition in English. You don't have to. Think about your strong side. English is obviously not the one. No offense, Neither it is mine. I think if you can pass US bar exam and find great job in your home country you can make much more than here. Don't get me wrong, it's not about competition. There 300,000 members in California Bar. If you're able to find your niche here i welcome you to do so. If you think your strong side in your home law - pass the Bar here and go for it.


hi, am bharath, law graduate from india. am trying to practice law in usa. until reading this blogs i am under an impression that foreign lawyers must study law in usa and then only he can practice. thanks for the information. and if u guys know please let me know how will be the bar examinatons ther and its difficulty.and what are the troubles for a foreign lawyer in practicing law in usa with out studying there. could u please let me know, and also the how is the pay scale for foreign lawyers there.

regards
bharath

<blockquote><blockquote>Hi smartguy,

You seem to know a lot. Can you please advice me as to the following questions:
--What are the job oppurtunities for a foreign lawyer in the US(with or without LLM)?
--What sort of salaries can they expect after clearing the Bar?
--How easy it is to get a job? Can you rate it on a scale of 10?
--Are there any particular practice areas in which foreign lawyers have a better chance of getting a job? Conversely, are there any areas which are a strict no-no for foreign lawyers?
--Can foreign lawyers expect to make it big in the field of litigation?
--Is there any sort of bias against foreign lawyers especially against asians?

Your advice is highly appreciated. Thanks. Cheers!

</blockquote>

Intuition whispers to my ear you have never been to the us before. am i right?
let's start with simple facts. once you get admitted you're not foreign attorney anymore.
if you are looking for self employed carrering i doubt your client will ever inquire which school have you graduated from.
if you're looking for employment in top notch law firms... well you have to be damn good... at least better than your other American candidates.
as for money i think with no substantial experience you can start with $2,500-3,000/month.
Litigation is not the field where you can make big money, i would say Intellectual Property is the most money attractive field now.
Believe me you will not be able to handle 8 hours deposition in English. You don't have to. Think about your strong side. English is obviously not the one. No offense, Neither it is mine. I think if you can pass US bar exam and find great job in your home country you can make much more than here. Don't get me wrong, it's not about competition. There 300,000 members in California Bar. If you're able to find your niche here i welcome you to do so. If you think your strong side in your home law - pass the Bar here and go for it.</blockquote>

hi, am bharath, law graduate from india. am trying to practice law in usa. until reading this blogs i am under an impression that foreign lawyers must study law in usa and then only he can practice. thanks for the information. and if u guys know please let me know how will be the bar examinatons ther and its difficulty.and what are the troubles for a foreign lawyer in practicing law in usa with out studying there. could u please let me know, and also the how is the pay scale for foreign lawyers there.

regards
bharath</blockquote>
quote
mav09

I I think most of the people have misinterpreted smartguy's comments. He is sharing his personal experiences but most of you are acting like big idiots in this forum. most of the information is publicly available and most of you are plain lazy to make an independent research. Do not simply believe everything you read in a public forum. Please if you are lawyers, act like professionals, conduct your own due diligence and then approach members with intelligent questions and queries.
CA bar might be available to foreign lawyers but no other bar in the entire US will allow a foreigner to sit for a state bar exam without an LL.M. which requires amongst others, a minimum 20 credit hours of course study that must include two courses in basic American Law from an ABA approved law school.
Even CA bar has its conditions but apparently it is considered to be the most liberal jurisdiction in the entire US that allows foreign lawyers to take the state bar exam.

I I think most of the people have misinterpreted smartguy's comments. He is sharing his personal experiences but most of you are acting like big idiots in this forum. most of the information is publicly available and most of you are plain lazy to make an independent research. Do not simply believe everything you read in a public forum. Please if you are lawyers, act like professionals, conduct your own due diligence and then approach members with intelligent questions and queries.
CA bar might be available to foreign lawyers but no other bar in the entire US will allow a foreigner to sit for a state bar exam without an LL.M. which requires amongst others, a minimum 20 credit hours of course study that must include two courses in basic American Law from an ABA approved law school.
Even CA bar has its conditions but apparently it is considered to be the most liberal jurisdiction in the entire US that allows foreign lawyers to take the state bar exam.
quote
mav09

Another thing, most of the Indians on this thread should be ashamed of themselves for writing such poor English and making generic grammatical mistakes . Foreign lawyers with a poor level of command over spoken English and poor writing skills will not find any employment in an English speaking Nation. In my personal opinion, most of you will not find a good employment position at a top law firm or within well known practice structures in India, so don't even dare dream about the US market.
I am being blunt for the simple reason that a lawyer's core skill is to have a flawless command over usage of language tools and ideally the lawyer must possess the ability to provide articulate representation.
This advice comes from someone who is an Indian and currently working in the United States.
Finding a job is not impossible and there's always a market if you have the desired skill.
Lot of aspects come into play, your prior placements, good grades back home, good score in your LL.M. etc. but most importantly the ability to network and create a market for your own skill will always serve you well.
Raise your standards and choose the right path for yourself.

Another thing, most of the Indians on this thread should be ashamed of themselves for writing such poor English and making generic grammatical mistakes . Foreign lawyers with a poor level of command over spoken English and poor writing skills will not find any employment in an English speaking Nation. In my personal opinion, most of you will not find a good employment position at a top law firm or within well known practice structures in India, so don't even dare dream about the US market.
I am being blunt for the simple reason that a lawyer's core skill is to have a flawless command over usage of language tools and ideally the lawyer must possess the ability to provide articulate representation.
This advice comes from someone who is an Indian and currently working in the United States.
Finding a job is not impossible and there's always a market if you have the desired skill.
Lot of aspects come into play, your prior placements, good grades back home, good score in your LL.M. etc. but most importantly the ability to network and create a market for your own skill will always serve you well.
Raise your standards and choose the right path for yourself.
quote
gayatrikmr


Anyone else i.e., most of us - average to good academics from undergrad law schools in Europe/Asia etc, and little post qualification experience - need the JD, at least to get into biglaw or any medium to large firm in any US city.


Hi - i know its a fairly old post.. but I had to ask - I am a student from a top law school in India, ie, a 5 yr integrated law course - BA LLB (Hons.) - enrolled at a Bar in India and qualified to practice (graduated 2010) - I will be reading for the BCL at Oxford this year. We all know how bad the job market is for lawyers in the US at the moment.

Though, I would be very interested in knowing whether I (with the credentials mentioned above) would have a chance at a job in the US? My fiance is working in the US .. so whatever be the circumstances I need to be in the US.

Moreover, now according to the CA bar exam - u need an SSN to sit for the exam - which means one needs atleast an employment letter in hand to apply for the SSN.. argh .. this is really maddening. Would be very grateful for answers/help/advice from everyone.

Thank You.

<blockquote>
Anyone else i.e., most of us - average to good academics from undergrad law schools in Europe/Asia etc, and little post qualification experience - need the JD, at least to get into biglaw or any medium to large firm in any US city.</blockquote>

Hi - i know its a fairly old post.. but I had to ask - I am a student from a top law school in India, ie, a 5 yr integrated law course - BA LLB (Hons.) - enrolled at a Bar in India and qualified to practice (graduated 2010) - I will be reading for the BCL at Oxford this year. We all know how bad the job market is for lawyers in the US at the moment.

Though, I would be very interested in knowing whether I (with the credentials mentioned above) would have a chance at a job in the US? My fiance is working in the US .. so whatever be the circumstances I need to be in the US.

Moreover, now according to the CA bar exam - u need an SSN to sit for the exam - which means one needs atleast an employment letter in hand to apply for the SSN.. argh .. this is really maddening. Would be very grateful for answers/help/advice from everyone.

Thank You.
quote
richardvf

I think the SSN requirement can be waived for foreign attorneys taking the California bar exam who do not reside or work in the United States. I would suggest that you contact the California bar directly. You also need to decide where in the US you think you will be living. California is pretty much the only state that will allow a foreign attorney such as yourself take the bar exam without a LL.M. If you intend to live in a state other than California you need to check that state's requirements to take the bar exam. You may need to obtain an LL.M. The good thing is that if you enter an LL.M program you can reside in the US on a student visa.

I think the SSN requirement can be waived for foreign attorneys taking the California bar exam who do not reside or work in the United States. I would suggest that you contact the California bar directly. You also need to decide where in the US you think you will be living. California is pretty much the only state that will allow a foreign attorney such as yourself take the bar exam without a LL.M. If you intend to live in a state other than California you need to check that state's requirements to take the bar exam. You may need to obtain an LL.M. The good thing is that if you enter an LL.M program you can reside in the US on a student visa.
quote

I have had several foreign bar-member colleagues apply for eligibility for the Ca. Bar.

The social security number is not a necessary component of eligibility, and is waived for persons without one.

I have had several foreign bar-member colleagues apply for eligibility for the Ca. Bar.

The social security number is not a necessary component of eligibility, and is waived for persons without one.
quote

That is correct.
There are two ways to take the California Bar Exam:
1) Be admitted in your home jurisdiction and apply as an attorney applicant;
2) Have an LL.M. from an ABA or CA approved law schools (+ make sure to take the required courses). Submit a report establishing the equivalency of your foreign law degree to a JD.

All can be found here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Education/LegalEducation/ForeignEducation.aspx

All those people asking: "do you think I have a chance of finding a job...". Nobody in this forum can tell you that. There are foreign lawyers with an LL.M. from the US; some don't. Some have impressive backgrounds, some don't. Once you passed the bar exam, obtained a work permit, you can start trying to find a job. It is very hard though. If you don't find a job in your home country, it is extremely unlikely that you will find a job (as an attorney) in the US.

You might also try to get a position as a law clerk, intern, legal assistant, paralegal but these jobs are generally not well paid (if paid at all).

Will an LL.M. help you: depends. If your English is not good enough, you can improve your language skills by studying in the US. Having obtained an LL.M. from a University such as Columbia, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley etc certainly helps. However, an LL.M. as such doesnt help a lot. But an LL.M. program allows you to network, maybe publish an article, receive recommendations from law professors, use the career service (not always accessible to LL.M. students) etc. But is it worth the $45,000 charged for tuition maybe not.

That is correct.
There are two ways to take the California Bar Exam:
1) Be admitted in your home jurisdiction and apply as an attorney applicant;
2) Have an LL.M. from an ABA or CA approved law schools (+ make sure to take the required courses). Submit a report establishing the equivalency of your foreign law degree to a JD.

All can be found here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Education/LegalEducation/ForeignEducation.aspx

All those people asking: "do you think I have a chance of finding a job...". Nobody in this forum can tell you that. There are foreign lawyers with an LL.M. from the US; some don't. Some have impressive backgrounds, some don't. Once you passed the bar exam, obtained a work permit, you can start trying to find a job. It is very hard though. If you don't find a job in your home country, it is extremely unlikely that you will find a job (as an attorney) in the US.

You might also try to get a position as a law clerk, intern, legal assistant, paralegal but these jobs are generally not well paid (if paid at all).

Will an LL.M. help you: depends. If your English is not good enough, you can improve your language skills by studying in the US. Having obtained an LL.M. from a University such as Columbia, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley etc certainly helps. However, an LL.M. as such doesn’t help a lot. But an LL.M. program allows you to network, maybe publish an article, receive recommendations from law professors, use the career service (not always accessible to LL.M. students) etc. But is it worth the $45,000 charged for tuition – maybe not.

quote
myrtian

I am a lawyer from a non-common law country in Europe and I want to practise law in California. In order to apply for the California Bar Exam, do I have to be admitted as a lawyer in my home jurisdiction for a minimun period of time?

I am a lawyer from a non-common law country in Europe and I want to practise law in California. In order to apply for the California Bar Exam, do I have to be admitted as a lawyer in my home jurisdiction for a minimun period of time?
quote

In my experience with our LLM students, and colleagues from foreign countries, the answer is no.

Check out the link above that I provided previously to the Ca. Bar website wherein the rules are provided. Then you will need to verify and check your specific foreign degree and foreign Bar qualification with the Ca. Bar to determine your eligibility.

In my experience with our LLM students, and colleagues from foreign countries, the answer is no.

Check out the link above that I provided previously to the Ca. Bar website wherein the rules are provided. Then you will need to verify and check your specific foreign degree and foreign Bar qualification with the Ca. Bar to determine your eligibility.
quote
aelmensh

just a small question, i already had my LLM, Indiana university, and i am not planning to practice within US however i was thinking to register on an online JD program, do u think it is ok to obtain JD after LLM?

just a small question, i already had my LLM, Indiana university, and i am not planning to practice within US however i was thinking to register on an online JD program, do u think it is ok to obtain JD after LLM?
quote

Why not. However, I do not believe that a distance learning JD would help you to land a job in the US.

Why not. However, I do not believe that a distance learning JD would help you to land a job in the US.
quote

i am going to complete my ballb can i practice in USA. IF YES THEN HOW .

i am going to complete my ballb can i practice in USA. IF YES THEN HOW .
quote

To practice law in one of the States, District of Columbia, or one of the five territories (eg. Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI) of the USA, you will need to become licensed by that particular State, District of Columbia, or one of the five territories.

Start by examining the rules and regulations of entry to the Bar of your target jurisdiction - see
http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

California generally allows foreign attorneys the opportunity for eligibility to sit the general bar. Non-attorneys who hold an LLB may be eligible after completing certain US law study requirements of subjects tested on the California Bar (generally in the form of an LLM).

To practice law in one of the States, District of Columbia, or one of the five territories (eg. Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI) of the USA, you will need to become licensed by that particular State, District of Columbia, or one of the five territories.

Start by examining the rules and regulations of entry to the Bar of your target jurisdiction - see
http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

California generally allows foreign attorneys the opportunity for eligibility to sit the general bar. Non-attorneys who hold an LLB may be eligible after completing certain US law study requirements of subjects tested on the California Bar (generally in the form of an LLM).

quote

Yes. California will accept it. It doesn't matter if you come from a civil background so long as you are a licensed attorney in your home country.


Is this still the case nowadays?

<blockquote>Yes. California will accept it. It doesn't matter if you come from a civil background so long as you are a licensed attorney in your home country.</blockquote>

Is this still the case nowadays?
quote
drhim

Hi,

I'm a Canadian citizen, born and raised, got a B.A. from a Canadian university, and currently in a 2-year accelerated LLB program in Scotland.

Will I be able to sit in a bar exam in NY/Cal?
What do you suggest?

Hi,

I'm a Canadian citizen, born and raised, got a B.A. from a Canadian university, and currently in a 2-year accelerated LLB program in Scotland.

Will I be able to sit in a bar exam in NY/Cal?
What do you suggest?
quote

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