So, I have heard that the focus at HLS for the LLM program is very much on foreign students... My question is for the domestic students out there who would like to attend one of the top 5 programs in the Northeast (Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Yale, Georgetown). Harvard is my top choice.

Does any one have any idea of what my chances might be for those top programs? Any advice?

Positives: I attend a top tier school (around #50). Grades after this semester will put me somewhere between top 5% - top 10%. I am a Notes and Comments Editor on the Law Review, member of the Mock Trial Team, invited to Moot Court but had to turn down the invitation (b/c of above commitments), former president of a student organization. I am looking at a constitutional law focus for the LLM, and out of 5 Con law classes here in LS, my average is a 96.8% (booked 2 and got the second highest grade in 2 others). Besides that, I have booked a 3rd class, and got the second highest in 2 others (total of 3 books and 4 second highest); might have (fingers crossed) a summer clerkship with a chief judge of a district COA (state).

Negatives: I am applying for the LLM program right out of LS with no firm experience; both my LS and undergraduate school are state schools (no fancy names); My LSAT and GPA from undergrad would have NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS got me into any of these schools; I am a domestic student; I have no minority status in anyway (just an ordinary white guy).


Sorry for the long post, but I'm sure many domestic students may have the same questions...

Indeed, many domestic students do have these same questions. However, I don't think too many domestic students frequent this website. If they do, it doesn't look like many of them are involved on the discussion boards unless the topic relates to taxation. That said, I can't say that I'm an expert on the issue by any means, but I'll give you my opinion:

Your credentials look very strong. You make a very good self-assessment in considering your weaknesses, especially the lack of experience. I am in the same position actually. However, being in the top ten percent of a top fifty school is quite impressive. If you don't get into one of these top five programs - and I think you would still have a good shot, consider applying to a school outside of one of these ultra elite institutions. If your interest is Constitutional law, you can undoubtedly find a program outside of these five that suits your interests. Again, your record looks very strong to me, and I think you will be given heavy consideration, but take a look at all options and contingencies.

Okay, I've said my peace. Hope that helps - and good luck to you.

Unless you are looking to go into academia I dont see the value of an LLM for you career-wise or from an economic standpoint. I would think with credentials you have described, you really wouldnt have trouble finding a job at most places or even a clerkship somewhere. If you are looking to go into academia, looking at most of my professors, few have LLMs and most just went to top schools and then worked at top firms. I guess my main question is why do you want to go for the LLM?

Well, my overall goal is to have the option to teach law in the future. Like you said, very few of your professors have LLM's, but they also went to elite institutions. After speaking with some of the professors on the hiring committee at my school, there is a definate need to "launder" my degree through an ivy. While my school is top 50, if you look at the the schools with placements in law teaching, we aren't on there. There are clearly a few schools that seem to feed the academic circles, and my belief is that to be a strong candidate, I need to have a degree from somewhere else. Even with these credentials, the opportunities at firm jobs in the region that I will be moving following law school (the Northeast), are almost non-existant for a graduate of the region in which I attend school (Southeast). At the very least, I see this as a foot into the regional door. Also, my reasons are personal as well. I have been a product of public school education my entire life -- elementary through lawschool -- and I have always held the belief that I can compete at the highest levels if given the opportunity. While this may not be the best justification to spend 60k for a year, it certainly isn't the worst. I'm sure that most will agree that no matter what, a Harvard degree is not going to hurt. Lastly, I will likely be forced to move to either New York or Boston, as my fiance will be pursuing her post-doctorate work at one of these institutions. With my career goals, I figure my time is better spent at Columbia or Harvard than working as a public defender (which is still probably ultra competitive for a Southeastern boy). I have also considered applying for some of the teaching fellowships, but those scare the crap out of me at this point... maybe things will change by the time I apply. What does everyone think?

Hey rbw05. I am in a similar situation, so I can understand your desire for an LL.M. from a top school. It will also give you an opportunity to focus your studies on the area that you find most interesting, and write a thesis for publication. Regarding your admission chances, I think you are almost a sure in for NYU and Georgetown. Columbia only accepts a few domestic applicants a year, so that will be a bit more difficult. As for Harvard, you have to be sure you want to be a professor to gain acceptance to that program. It is specifically for teaching. The same thing may be true for Columbia as well.

Yale is specifically for teaching. Harvard takes all kinds, as does Columbia.

I am interested in applying for the LLM program at Harvard, Yale and Columbia next year and I wanted to see if someone could please comment on my chances of being accepted given my stats, which I have outlined below.

I am ultimately interested in a career in legal teaching and research. I have two years experience as a corporate associate at an international AmLaw 100 law firm in New York City (top 30 firm on Vault). After law school, I clerked for a federal district court judge. My law school is ranked around 60 on US News and I graduated in the top 25% of my graduating class. I was a Managing Editor on the Law Review and I published an article in the Law Review. I have also published a few shorter pieces on legal issues in a few non-legal journals. I was my undergraduate Valedictorian at a large state school, graduating Summa Cum Laude with a 4.0 cumulative grade point average. I am a member of various academic honor societies and have received numerous legal and non-legal awards from both academic and professional organizations. I also taught a couple of courses in legal studies at a local community college since graduation from law school and I traveled to Asia when I was in college to teach a course over a summer. I know this is also important, so I will mention that I am a 28 year old white male and I am an American.

What do you think my chances are to be admitted at Yale, Harvard or Columbia? While I am shooting for one of these schools, if you think I have no shot or a very low chance of being admitted, which LLM program would be most appropriate given my stats? Also, is there anything I can do that would seriously increase my chances of being admitted (e.g. publishing another Law Review article or clerking on a circuit court)?

I appreciate feedback from anyone with experience with these programs.

Hi rbw05

Why don't you try for Coulumbia's Associate-in-Law? The previous list of associates includes the students from US.
Check Columbia's webpage....

regards