I've been just admitted to CLS and I was already admitted to NYU. I'm into Corporate law and I wil definitively would like to land a job after the LLM (I know the market is awful now, but still, that's the goal).

Columbia is slightly better in the rankings and is Ivy League (thing that I'm not sure counts that much) and has great reputation, but also NYU has a good corporate specialized program and has been getting excellent faculty...

What do you advise? Why?

Most people in this blog will tell you "CLS! Because it has a higher ranking!". Unless, of course, the US News rankings change tomorrow by miracle and the answer will be "NYU! Because it has a higher ranking!" Apologies for the sarcasm, but there is only so many comments like that I can stomach a day. On the eternal NYU vs. Columbia debate, this is part of a very long post I made on another thread:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/85269/last/#post-85571

"8. NYU vs. Columbia: Finally my view on the issue. From the strictly point of view of academics, I would see them as equivalent. Both have great faculty and both have good programs. I assume those defending one or the other are just trying to justify their decisions or gain peace of mind, but the truth is that they are both very good. What makes the difference, in my humble opinion, are not the academics but rather the place where you will be studying and the kind of people you will be studying with.

The place? Aren't they both in Manhattan? Well, yes and no. Columbia has a huge, isolated campus in the north of Manhattan. Or, better said, in the middle of Harlem. If you are in the campus, you could be anywhere else, and going out to the real NYC is not that safe nor convenient at certain hours (try to return at 2 am in the morning walking through Harlem!!!). Most of your life will take palace there.

NYU, on the other hand, has THE best location for experiencing Manhattan. You do not live in a campus. Rather, NYU buildings are spread throughout Greenwich Village and close to Washington Square. This means you are walking distance to so many great places, bars, theatres and restaurants that, in fact, it may be better avoided if you get easily distracted. So, here the choice is between being relatively isolated and concentrating in your studies (I am sure Columbia guys will not like this comment, but sorry it is true), or in the heart of Manhattan resisting temptation all the time (or indulging in them in them from time to time, which is what most people do). Only you can choose what's better for you.

The people? Well, my perception (which could be completely wrong) was that NYU people tend to be less "lawyerly" and square than Columbia people. Emphasis on the "tend to be", as there are of course exceptions. NYU people are also pretty smart on average, like Columbia, but they tend to be more on the adventurous side of life (except those in the tax program who are all library rats and often boring people). Talk to Columbia people and the only thing in their mind is studying and getting into a Law firm. Talk to NYU people and they are also thinking of that, but they can also talk about other issues and often do not exclude the possibility of going abroad or working in non-legal positions. It could have been a sampling issue, but that was my perception. Try to talk to people in those schools and see if you get the same impression. Which one are you? Where would you feel more comfortable? "

Thank you for yoir opinion Oldtimer, it is very elightening. If I have to be categorized as a person or lawyer, I would probably identify with what you say is the people who goes to NYU; I'm not a library rat at all, I dont think being stuck reading in the library all day is a good way of spending your LLM year and I'm certainly open to other options of job opportunities, not only in the US and not only in a law firm (altough that would be a first choice). I'm not the kind of person who enjoys talking all day about law and likes theory, I'm more of a practical guy (what I do is primarely M&A, so you see my point).

Given all that profile, probably you'd say it's best for me to go to NYU, but also Columbi's reputation in the filed I'm interested in I think is very important too..

Hey tato! Well, I am facing the same choice, except that I want to study international law and arbitration, and have decided to attend Columbia (I have to send my response to nyu by tomorrow!). I am not a library rat either and I don't think everyone at Columbia is!

I think the fact that there are 200 people on the llm vs. 450 at Nyu could be a good point for Columbia because I guess you get to know the people better.

Besides, I think that although both law schools are great, Columbia has a slightly better overall reputation, because Columbia undergrad is better, and probably because it is ivy league also.

I have heard that Columbia's campus is really great, and the area is safe now.

You might party more by going to nyu, but it doesn't mean you won't at all by going to columbia!

well, good luck with your choice! it's up to you! both schools are really good anyway so don't worry!

ps: columbia offers an internship at the UN so I really don't think people there are completely obsessed with law firms and can't think of anything else...

Hey J. France! I concurr with you on the profile of people at Columbia. While I know some of them who are actually very eager in studying all the time, I also know some of them who are enjoying life at NY very nicely. So probably yes, people in NYU tend to be more relaxed and not so "lawyerly" but there's also that kind of people in Columbia.

The fact of the program being smaller is a good point I forgot about. I think that gives you the chance to interact more with JDs also as you'll ave them in your classes and also to become more familiar to the rest of the LLMs.

It is true about reputation, and it is, I think, one of the strongest points of the decision making process. As for the campus, I've been there, and it's really nice. What it is true, however, is that the are where NYU is located is by far nicer than CLS's zone. I beleive that it would be up to you to decide if you want to stay all the time in CLS's area or go to all the other places, but it is also true that if you have classes all day you'll have top be around the area. Altough I have to say that I Harlem is way better than I expected.

So I think location is an issue here and should be taken into consideration because is where you're gonna spend a whole year, but reputation and prospects after the LLM are more important, considering the huge investment we're making.

I'm still confused... I should make my mind by tomorrow, but you're all being very helpful with the insights.

Anyone else? Help!!! haha.

Well I know NYU well and it is true that the area is really great, but I guess being near Central Park is a good thing too, and, even though you're right about spending a lot of time in the upper west if you attend Columbia, you can still of course go downtown on weekends and sometimes during the week. I think the express metro line is really fast and takes you all the way downtown in 20 minutes..

well well, tell us what you decide in the end!! For me, I am pretty sure I will choose Columbia!

good luck!

I just would like to make a point. I see this everywhere in every thread about NYU.
Of course I wont tell u what to do because I m biased. I m finishing the LLM in Corporate law at NYU. Both are great schools, u won t be wrong eventually.

My point is that the LLM in NYU is not 450 people. This is a big issue that I see in NYU advertisment. Actually, the total is 450 but only half of it are international students. The other half are american Tax LLMs. This means that when the Grad. Admission selects foreign candidates the number they have to fill is 225, not 450. This is the reality.

Another issue is the contact with the other students.
It is only up to u. If u wanna have contacts you ll create your own network. You can know just a few people or all the school.
Mostly you ll sit in class with the other JDs. Classes size vary. The biggest one I had was Corporation and we were 60. But then there are seminars, with max 15 students. I had civil procedure the first semester with only 4 other classmates. Or bankruptcy reorganization with only 16. As you can see you can arrange your schedule and take courses or seminars of a different size.

just to be fair, Columbia is great as well. But NYU is not as bad as someone on this website thinks, and it has not all the defects that some people here believe to find in that school.

Good luck

Just to be fair, Columbia is great as well. But NYU is not as bad as someone on this website thinks, and it has not all the defects that some people here believe to find in that school.

I rankings are important to you, then go to CLS, because NYU just went down to No. 6...

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings

As a final thing, the "lawyerly" adjective was not meant to be demeaning, as somebody understood in the other thread.

As a final thing, the "lawyerly" adjective was not meant to be demeaning, as somebody understood in the other thread.

Actually, I hope that students are able to focus not only on lawyering, because truly great lawyers need to have an approach to things that consits of many different things...But this is sth that one often does not realize in the early twenties...

Oldtimer,
I must confess I like your responses. You write very well and your analysis are good. In my opinion you are one of the best writers on this forum.

Most people in this blog will tell you "CLS! Because it has a higher ranking!". Unless, of course, the US News rankings change tomorrow by miracle and the answer will be "NYU! Because it has a higher ranking!" Apologies for the sarcasm, but there is only so many comments like that I can stomach a day. On the eternal NYU vs. Columbia debate, this is part of a very long post I made on another thread:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/85269/last/#post-85571

"8. NYU vs. Columbia: Finally my view on the issue. From the strictly point of view of academics, I would see them as equivalent. Both have great faculty and both have good programs. I assume those defending one or the other are just trying to justify their decisions or gain peace of mind, but the truth is that they are both very good. What makes the difference, in my humble opinion, are not the academics but rather the place where you will be studying and the kind of people you will be studying with.

The place? Aren't they both in Manhattan? Well, yes and no. Columbia has a huge, isolated campus in the north of Manhattan. Or, better said, in the middle of Harlem. If you are in the campus, you could be anywhere else, and going out to the real NYC is not that safe nor convenient at certain hours (try to return at 2 am in the morning walking through Harlem!!!). Most of your life will take palace there.

NYU, on the other hand, has THE best location for experiencing Manhattan. You do not live in a campus. Rather, NYU buildings are spread throughout Greenwich Village and close to Washington Square. This means you are walking distance to so many great places, bars, theatres and restaurants that, in fact, it may be better avoided if you get easily distracted. So, here the choice is between being relatively isolated and concentrating in your studies (I am sure Columbia guys will not like this comment, but sorry it is true), or in the heart of Manhattan resisting temptation all the time (or indulging in them in them from time to time, which is what most people do). Only you can choose what's better for you.

The people? Well, my perception (which could be completely wrong) was that NYU people tend to be less "lawyerly" and square than Columbia people. Emphasis on the "tend to be", as there are of course exceptions. NYU people are also pretty smart on average, like Columbia, but they tend to be more on the adventurous side of life (except those in the tax program who are all library rats and often boring people). Talk to Columbia people and the only thing in their mind is studying and getting into a Law firm. Talk to NYU people and they are also thinking of that, but they can also talk about other issues and often do not exclude the possibility of going abroad or working in non-legal positions. It could have been a sampling issue, but that was my perception. Try to talk to people in those schools and see if you get the same impression. Which one are you? Where would you feel more comfortable? "

Oldtimer,
I must confess I like your responses. You write very well and your analysis are good. In my opinion you are one of the best writers on this forum.

Guys, I truly appreciate your opinions, really, they are being really helpful. As of this moment, after reading your comments, doing my own research on courses, faculty, talking to friends here and looking at somes where to work, I must say I'm leaning towards Columbia. However, in this last thing, getting a job afterwards, I must say NYU and CLS are very close.

I must confess that when I visited the schools (which I did before applying to get a sense of them) I had a special feeling for Columbia. Maybe it was because I knew a lot of people going there, I dont know. However, I loved NYU facilities, even tough it may not have a campus, the "campus" and the area are incredible. I don't truly care much about rankings btw.

I fully agree with Oldtimer and Leonaard2000 about NYU. I think it is a great school, with excellent reputation and a awesome faculty. The fact that I'm still undecided proves what I say, at least for me. And Oldtimer, I understand what you say about the term "lawyerly", it is not insulting, it is just a characterization of some people we all know.

I still have a doubt: if what I'm doing is Corporate, would you all still recommend NYU? For what I've been reading, here and in other places, Columbia is recommended in this field, while NYU would definitively beat CLS in Tax, for instance.

So for my case, academically, isn't CLS the best choice? I underline "academically" because I totally agree that as for location NYU beats CLS.

My instinct would be say that it depends on which courses you were planning to take in the corporate area and whether you were planning to attend courses at the business schools (there is also a rivalry there). But the honest answer is that I would not be in a position to tell you.

In any case, if you have a special feeling for CLS, then trust your instinct and go for it. That's a good enough reason and I am sure you will not regret it.

Well, after careful and deep thinking, I've decided to go to CLS. I think I've stated some of my reasons, altough it hasn't been an easy decision, I beleive it suits me the best.

Thanks to you all for your kind advice and good luck!