Brazilian applicants and grades


proBR
Hi, Brazilian applicants for 2011-2012!
Does any of you know if American universities consider the differences between Brazilian universities when evaluating our grades (including the LSAC report)?? I just saw some guy from UFRGS saying that he had a GPA of 8.5 and was only in the middle of the ranking in his class. At USP, for example, a GPA of 8.6 puts you almost for sure among the top 5%. Do they know and consider that? It seems to me that it's a very unfair competition!
Hi, Brazilian applicants for 2011-2012!
Does any of you know if American universities consider the differences between Brazilian universities when evaluating our grades (including the LSAC report)?? I just saw some guy from UFRGS saying that he had a GPA of 8.5 and was only in the middle of the ranking in his class. At USP, for example, a GPA of 8.6 puts you almost for sure among the top 5%. Do they know and consider that? It seems to me that it's a very unfair competition!
quote
Aky
In the LSAC report, where you :

-Below average
-average
-above average
-superior

?
In the LSAC report, where you :

-Below average
-average
-above average
-superior

?
quote
proBR
Above average, which apparently doesn't mean much (I heard they never put superior for students coming from universities which do not have official ranking (I don't know if it's accurate).
Above average, which apparently doesn't mean much (I heard they never put superior for students coming from universities which do not have official ranking (I don't know if it's accurate).
quote
Aky
It's partially true : they would not use the rank to put you superior (because there is no official rank), but the final points

For example on my LSAC analysis :
-I had "Superior" in an Academic Diploma : I was 2nd on 25, but with 16/20
-I had "Above average" on my Master 2 : I was 1st on 25, but with 13,5

As they don't have official rank (and they don't care, they don't want to verify our "unofficial" rank with the university by phone or mail), they only use grade points :(
It's partially true : they would not use the rank to put you superior (because there is no official rank), but the final points

For example on my LSAC analysis :
-I had "Superior" in an Academic Diploma : I was 2nd on 25, but with 16/20
-I had "Above average" on my Master 2 : I was 1st on 25, but with 13,5

As they don't have official rank (and they don't care, they don't want to verify our "unofficial" rank with the university by phone or mail), they only use grade points :(
quote
proBR
But if there is no official ranking, how do you know if you're 1st, 2nd or 10yh in class?
But if there is no official ranking, how do you know if you're 1st, 2nd or 10yh in class?
quote
Aky
By asking the professors or the administration of the university

The university "knows" the ranking of students: they have like an Excel file, with all names, grades, etc. They only have to sort the list by grade points, and then looking for your name.
So I asked my professors, or some "nice" persons at the administration who would give me the information.

But the fact is that they would tell you orally, but they TOTALLY refuse to write it, or give it on official paper :'(

That's how I knew my ranking ;)

---

Edit: And on small classes, for example 25 or less students, everyone know everyone: So you just have to ask them their grade points, and then compare yourself to them in the ranks
By asking the professors or the administration of the university

The university "knows" the ranking of students: they have like an Excel file, with all names, grades, etc. They only have to sort the list by grade points, and then looking for your name.
So I asked my professors, or some "nice" persons at the administration who would give me the information.

But the fact is that they would tell you orally, but they TOTALLY refuse to write it, or give it on official paper :'(

That's how I knew my ranking ;)

---

Edit: And on small classes, for example 25 or less students, everyone know everyone: So you just have to ask them their grade points, and then compare yourself to them in the ranks
quote
proBR
Unfortunately, this is highly subjective and I really don't think they take into consideration when evaluating our applications...
Unfortunately, this is highly subjective and I really don't think they take into consideration when evaluating our applications...
quote
dggc
Hello Everyone!

I have a couple of questions for current brazilian LLM students.
Did anyone get financial aid in the past years?
Has anyone applied for Ling's or Fundação Estudar Scholarships?
Was anyone admitted to any LLM program straight out of law school with limited or no professional experience?
Regards,
Hello Everyone!

I have a couple of questions for current brazilian LLM students.
Did anyone get financial aid in the past years?
Has anyone applied for Ling's or Fundação Estudar Scholarships?
Was anyone admitted to any LLM program straight out of law school with limited or no professional experience?
Regards,
quote
dggc
Above average, which apparently doesn't mean much (I heard they never put superior for students coming from universities which do not have official ranking (I don't know if it's accurate).


@ProBR - I decided not use LSAC. It turned out to be more expensive after all as I had very limited and specific choices. Plus, I shared the same concern you have: despite being above average in my class, my record doesn't exactly display all A's and my school has no official ranking policy..so I was afraid I could get a misleading assessment.

Too bad I've only found this forum after submitting my applications...Now I'll just hope for the best..

Regards,
<blockquote>Above average, which apparently doesn't mean much (I heard they never put superior for students coming from universities which do not have official ranking (I don't know if it's accurate).</blockquote>

@ProBR - I decided not use LSAC. It turned out to be more expensive after all as I had very limited and specific choices. Plus, I shared the same concern you have: despite being above average in my class, my record doesn't exactly display all A's and my school has no official ranking policy..so I was afraid I could get a misleading assessment.

Too bad I've only found this forum after submitting my applications...Now I'll just hope for the best..

Regards,
quote
dbk
By asking the professors or the administration of the university

The university "knows" the ranking of students: they have like an Excel file, with all names, grades, etc. They only have to sort the list by grade points, and then looking for your name.
So I asked my professors, or some "nice" persons at the administration who would give me the information.

But the fact is that they would tell you orally, but they TOTALLY refuse to write it, or give it on official paper :'(

That's how I knew my ranking ;)

---

Edit: And on small classes, for example 25 or less students, everyone know everyone: So you just have to ask them their grade points, and then compare yourself to them in the ranks


I got my ranking for my Master II on my transcript (at the University of Paris I). But I had to ask for it and tell it was for a PhD application...

By the way, the LSAC believes 16/20 is enough for a mention "Très bien" (1st distinction) in every University. That's why you are ranked "Superior" with a 16/20... I sent an official documentation (from Paris I) to the LSAC with details on the French system but they did not take it into account.

Anyway, the Universities should know better!
<blockquote>By asking the professors or the administration of the university

The university "knows" the ranking of students: they have like an Excel file, with all names, grades, etc. They only have to sort the list by grade points, and then looking for your name.
So I asked my professors, or some "nice" persons at the administration who would give me the information.

But the fact is that they would tell you orally, but they TOTALLY refuse to write it, or give it on official paper :'(

That's how I knew my ranking ;)

---

Edit: And on small classes, for example 25 or less students, everyone know everyone: So you just have to ask them their grade points, and then compare yourself to them in the ranks</blockquote>

I got my ranking for my Master II on my transcript (at the University of Paris I). But I had to ask for it and tell it was for a PhD application...

By the way, the LSAC believes 16/20 is enough for a mention "Très bien" (1st distinction) in every University. That's why you are ranked "Superior" with a 16/20... I sent an official documentation (from Paris I) to the LSAC with details on the French system but they did not take it into account.

Anyway, the Universities should know better!
quote
dggc
Hi, Brazilian applicants for 2011-2012!
Does any of you know if American universities consider the differences between Brazilian universities when evaluating our grades (including the LSAC report)?? I just saw some guy from UFRGS saying that he had a GPA of 8.5 and was only in the middle of the ranking in his class. At USP, for example, a GPA of 8.6 puts you almost for sure among the top 5%. Do they know and consider that? It seems to me that it's a very unfair competition!


True..if the numbers are considered alone, it is unfair. The worst is that UFRGS is at least within the top 5 (tied with UFMG on the number of courses rated 7 by CAPES) federal universities on the overall (I mean considering not only the law school) which means they do have a lot of quality. But appearently they also have a more generous grading system...
I too don't know how american universities will consider that difference and, quite frankly, I think they won't because it would be impossible to reach that level of particularity in evaluating the number of candidates they get from all around the world.
However, if anyone is to know any brazilian university at all it will be USP so you might as well rely on that...
<blockquote>Hi, Brazilian applicants for 2011-2012!
Does any of you know if American universities consider the differences between Brazilian universities when evaluating our grades (including the LSAC report)?? I just saw some guy from UFRGS saying that he had a GPA of 8.5 and was only in the middle of the ranking in his class. At USP, for example, a GPA of 8.6 puts you almost for sure among the top 5%. Do they know and consider that? It seems to me that it's a very unfair competition! </blockquote>

True..if the numbers are considered alone, it is unfair. The worst is that UFRGS is at least within the top 5 (tied with UFMG on the number of courses rated 7 by CAPES) federal universities on the overall (I mean considering not only the law school) which means they do have a lot of quality. But appearently they also have a more generous grading system...
I too don't know how american universities will consider that difference and, quite frankly, I think they won't because it would be impossible to reach that level of particularity in evaluating the number of candidates they get from all around the world.
However, if anyone is to know any brazilian university at all it will be USP so you might as well rely on that...
quote
proBR
@dggc: I also had a very specific choice and it required me to use LSAC, so I didn't have much choice. I'd like USP to have any influence on the admissions and granting of financial aid but I don't believe so, as I know people from PUC-SP and RJ, Mackenzie and others who got in.
Comparing to my colleagues, my grades put me among the top 5% (I woudn't indicate a ranking as they are too many students in class - around 400). But they are only average comparing to graduates from UFRGS, for example, which seems to me really unfair, particularly because I'm applying for financial aid. At least they can see from my transcripts how many "A"s (9/10) I got. I hope this will have some good impact...
Answering your question, I know 2 people who got financial aid granted by the university, one from USP and the other from PUC-RJ. I also know someone who got a Fundacao Ling's scholarship for UK.
Most Brazilians that I know who got in American universities for LL.M have at least 2 year-work experience.
@dggc: I also had a very specific choice and it required me to use LSAC, so I didn't have much choice. I'd like USP to have any influence on the admissions and granting of financial aid but I don't believe so, as I know people from PUC-SP and RJ, Mackenzie and others who got in.
Comparing to my colleagues, my grades put me among the top 5% (I woudn't indicate a ranking as they are too many students in class - around 400). But they are only average comparing to graduates from UFRGS, for example, which seems to me really unfair, particularly because I'm applying for financial aid. At least they can see from my transcripts how many "A"s (9/10) I got. I hope this will have some good impact...
Answering your question, I know 2 people who got financial aid granted by the university, one from USP and the other from PUC-RJ. I also know someone who got a Fundacao Ling's scholarship for UK.
Most Brazilians that I know who got in American universities for LL.M have at least 2 year-work experience.
quote
dggc
2 years...
See I have a 2-year work experience but not in law. Since graduating from law school, I have been on an exclusive M.A. government scholarship (which means I can't work)..but I think that's is ok..I covered that on my personal statement...

After reading a lot of these discussion boards here, the only conclusion I've reached is that there really isn't a steady pattern for admissions.

I have also applied for financial aid. In fact, the reason I specifically inquired about it is that, since I can't work until next march when I'll finish my thesis, finaid is THE ONLY possible way for me to do this LLM now...

I probably rank high in my class...but there aren't any official rankings at UFMG so this is just speculation...

I've got my fingers crossed though.
2 years...
See I have a 2-year work experience but not in law. Since graduating from law school, I have been on an exclusive M.A. government scholarship (which means I can't work)..but I think that's is ok..I covered that on my personal statement...

After reading a lot of these discussion boards here, the only conclusion I've reached is that there really isn't a steady pattern for admissions.

I have also applied for financial aid. In fact, the reason I specifically inquired about it is that, since I can't work until next march when I'll finish my thesis, finaid is THE ONLY possible way for me to do this LLM now...

I probably rank high in my class...but there aren't any official rankings at UFMG so this is just speculation...

I've got my fingers crossed though.
quote
proBR
What is M.A.?
I agree, there seems to be no pattern in general. But there seems to be a pattern more or less defined with respect to which candidates are awarded with financial aid.
What is M.A.?
I agree, there seems to be no pattern in general. But there seems to be a pattern more or less defined with respect to which candidates are awarded with financial aid.
quote
dggc
And what would that finaid profile pattern be?

M.A. = Master of Arts degree
And what would that finaid profile pattern be?

M.A. = Master of Arts degree
quote
proBR
I see! I think this kind of multicultural records is well valued by American universities.
As I could see from NYU's website, for example, the scholarship grantees are all extremely qualified, ranked as one of the first in their class, have been awarded with other scholarships and prizes during their academic life, and plenty of them have professional experiences in governments, international organizations and things like that. Also, as far as I could see, as a rule, the most important scholarships are granted to people interested in international studies, mainly international public law and human rights.
I see! I think this kind of multicultural records is well valued by American universities.
As I could see from NYU's website, for example, the scholarship grantees are all extremely qualified, ranked as one of the first in their class, have been awarded with other scholarships and prizes during their academic life, and plenty of them have professional experiences in governments, international organizations and things like that. Also, as far as I could see, as a rule, the most important scholarships are granted to people interested in international studies, mainly international public law and human rights.
quote
GUIBH
Hi,

I think the competition is really unfair. It is much more difficult to maintain a 85% or higher average in a good Brazilian university than in a American university (Brazilian students in USA tend to have a higher GPA in USA than they had in Brazil).

And it's also important to say that a student from a top university in Brazil tend to have lower GPA than a student from a "B" university in Brazil, and I don't think they take that into consideration when they compare the GPAs.

Regards,

Guilherme.
Hi,

I think the competition is really unfair. It is much more difficult to maintain a 85% or higher average in a good Brazilian university than in a American university (Brazilian students in USA tend to have a higher GPA in USA than they had in Brazil).

And it's also important to say that a student from a top university in Brazil tend to have lower GPA than a student from a "B" university in Brazil, and I don't think they take that into consideration when they compare the GPAs.

Regards,

Guilherme.






quote
dggc
Does BH stand for Belo Horizonte?

Did you go to UFMG?
Does BH stand for Belo Horizonte?

Did you go to UFMG?
quote
GUIBH
Sim, sou de Belo Horizonte mas me formei na Milton Campos.
Sim, sou de Belo Horizonte mas me formei na Milton Campos.
quote
dggc
Eu estudo na UFMG, ou seja, estou em Belo Horizonte também! Você escolheu a Flórida, right?
Eu estudo na UFMG, ou seja, estou em Belo Horizonte também! Você escolheu a Flórida, right?
quote

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