Average GPA for LLM in Berkeley?


juliepk
Hey guys,

does anybody know what's the average GPA of the admitted LLM students in Berkeley?
I would really like to apply to Boalt Hall, but my problem is that I am graduating from Austria, and the practice here is students don't generally get good grades (actually about 40% of the students manage to take the exam and about the same percentage of the admitted students actually graduate). Anyway, there are no standings published and it is not possible to prove that you could be actually the top of your class even if you got an average grade in the American standards. It is really a bummer, because I would really like to do the LLM there and I am afraid that because of that GPA I won't be able to do that.
Do they pay attention to addtional activities, programmes and experience, or the GPA is the most important factor?
Thanks :)
Hey guys,

does anybody know what's the average GPA of the admitted LLM students in Berkeley?
I would really like to apply to Boalt Hall, but my problem is that I am graduating from Austria, and the practice here is students don't generally get good grades (actually about 40% of the students manage to take the exam and about the same percentage of the admitted students actually graduate). Anyway, there are no standings published and it is not possible to prove that you could be actually the top of your class even if you got an average grade in the American standards. It is really a bummer, because I would really like to do the LLM there and I am afraid that because of that GPA I won't be able to do that.
Do they pay attention to addtional activities, programmes and experience, or the GPA is the most important factor?
Thanks :)
quote
Hi Julie!

As a fellow Austria I will respond in German of course ;)

Das mit dem "Notendurchschnitt" österreichischer Jus-Absolventen ist bestimmt kein unbekanntes Phänomen für die amerik. Unis. Die haben bestimmt genug Erfahrungsswerte, um die auf dem Papier nicht gerade tollen Prüfungsergebnisse richtig einordnen zu können. Im Dekanat erhältst du auf Anfrage übrigens ein vom Dekan unterfertigtes Schreiben in dem auf englisch das Notensystem (samt Durchfallsquoten!) und der Studeinplan im Allgemeinen erklärt wird. Es schadet auf keine Fall diesen brief deiner Bewerbung beizulegen.
Außerdem gibt es ja neuerdings so etwas wie ein semi-offizieles Ranking der rechtswissenschaftl. Fakultät auf deine Positionierung (top x % pro studienabschnitt) aufscheint. Auch das ist ein guter Anhaltspunkt für die Universitäten an denen du dich bewirbst.

ich denke wernn du um die Mindestzeit herum abgeschlossen hast und dein Notendurchschnitt nicht weit über 2,0 liegt, bist du auf jeden Fall schon mal in einer guten Ausgangslage.

viel glück!
Hi Julie!

As a fellow Austria I will respond in German of course ;)

Das mit dem "Notendurchschnitt" österreichischer Jus-Absolventen ist bestimmt kein unbekanntes Phänomen für die amerik. Unis. Die haben bestimmt genug Erfahrungsswerte, um die auf dem Papier nicht gerade tollen Prüfungsergebnisse richtig einordnen zu können. Im Dekanat erhältst du auf Anfrage übrigens ein vom Dekan unterfertigtes Schreiben in dem auf englisch das Notensystem (samt Durchfallsquoten!) und der Studeinplan im Allgemeinen erklärt wird. Es schadet auf keine Fall diesen brief deiner Bewerbung beizulegen.
Außerdem gibt es ja neuerdings so etwas wie ein semi-offizieles Ranking der rechtswissenschaftl. Fakultät auf deine Positionierung (top x % pro studienabschnitt) aufscheint. Auch das ist ein guter Anhaltspunkt für die Universitäten an denen du dich bewirbst.

ich denke wernn du um die Mindestzeit herum abgeschlossen hast und dein Notendurchschnitt nicht weit über 2,0 liegt, bist du auf jeden Fall schon mal in einer guten Ausgangslage.

viel glück!
quote
juliepk
Hallo und vielen henzlichen Dank für die Information! Das klingt ja schon viel besser! Ich werde mich im Dekenat erkundigen und ich hoffe, dass es funktionieren wird. Es ist ja fast unmöglich ein Notendurchschnitt vom 1,00 zu haben... :)
Nochmals, vielen vielen Dank!
Hallo und vielen henzlichen Dank für die Information! Das klingt ja schon viel besser! Ich werde mich im Dekenat erkundigen und ich hoffe, dass es funktionieren wird. Es ist ja fast unmöglich ein Notendurchschnitt vom 1,00 zu haben... :)
Nochmals, vielen vielen Dank!
quote
Ich glaube, dass Problem der mangelnden Vergleichbarkeit haben wir leider alle. Bei LSAC sollte man aber vorsichtig sein. LSAC rechnet den Notendurchschnitt aus, aber dies leider etwas unprofessionell. Eine Bekannte hat Völkerrecht und Europarecht im Ausland gemacht. LSAC hat die Prüfungen mit "0" berechnet, aber trotzdem durch sämtliche Prüfungen dividiert, was natürlich zu Lasten derjenigen gibt, die die Prüfung in Wien gemacht haben...

Ich denke auch, dass ein besserer 2er Schnitt ausreichend ist, vor allem wenn man in oder unter Mindeststudienzeit studiert hat.

Viel Glück!
Ich glaube, dass Problem der mangelnden Vergleichbarkeit haben wir leider alle. Bei LSAC sollte man aber vorsichtig sein. LSAC rechnet den Notendurchschnitt aus, aber dies leider etwas unprofessionell. Eine Bekannte hat Völkerrecht und Europarecht im Ausland gemacht. LSAC hat die Prüfungen mit "0" berechnet, aber trotzdem durch sämtliche Prüfungen dividiert, was natürlich zu Lasten derjenigen gibt, die die Prüfung in Wien gemacht haben...

Ich denke auch, dass ein besserer 2er Schnitt ausreichend ist, vor allem wenn man in oder unter Mindeststudienzeit studiert hat.

Viel Glück!
quote
Interessant, vier Wiener in den obersten zwei Threads ;) Bewerbt ihr euch alle im Moment? Wie läufts damit?

Ein weiteres Manko unserer tollen Uni ist, dass sogenannte "honors" (= "mit Auszeichnung bestanden") de facto unmöglich zu ergattern sind. Das schaut dann ziemlich öde auf dem übersetzten DP-zeugnis aus, wenn man jeweils ein schlichtes "passed" statte "passed with honors" und "failed" erhält. Aber wie gesagt, das mit den Ranking Platzierungen würde ich euch auf jeden Fall empfehlen, da schaut dann nämlich gleich ganz anders aus wenn ein Wiener 2.x Schnitt eine Top 5% Wertung ergibt...
Interessant, vier Wiener in den obersten zwei Threads ;) Bewerbt ihr euch alle im Moment? Wie läufts damit?

Ein weiteres Manko unserer tollen Uni ist, dass sogenannte "honors" (= "mit Auszeichnung bestanden") de facto unmöglich zu ergattern sind. Das schaut dann ziemlich öde auf dem übersetzten DP-zeugnis aus, wenn man jeweils ein schlichtes "passed" statte "passed with honors" und "failed" erhält. Aber wie gesagt, das mit den Ranking Platzierungen würde ich euch auf jeden Fall empfehlen, da schaut dann nämlich gleich ganz anders aus wenn ein Wiener 2.x Schnitt eine Top 5% Wertung ergibt...
quote
Auf der anderen Seite ist es auch merkwürdig, wenn man einerseits das Schreiben von Pieler beilegt, dem ausdrücklich zu entnehmen ist, dass die Uni Wien kein offizielles Ranking durchführt, und trotzem ein "nicht-offizielles" Ranking mitschickt.

Ich werde das Uniport Ranking daher eher nicht mitschicken.

Insgesamt gehe ich davon aus, dass Unis wie Berkeley schon mehrer österreichische Bewerber/Innen hatten und daher die Ergebnisse einschätzen können. Und es kommt ja auch noch auf den CV und das personal statement an.

Zur Bewerbung: In Bearbeitung ;-), aber die deadlines nahen...
Auf der anderen Seite ist es auch merkwürdig, wenn man einerseits das Schreiben von Pieler beilegt, dem ausdrücklich zu entnehmen ist, dass die Uni Wien kein offizielles Ranking durchführt, und trotzem ein "nicht-offizielles" Ranking mitschickt.

Ich werde das Uniport Ranking daher eher nicht mitschicken.

Insgesamt gehe ich davon aus, dass Unis wie Berkeley schon mehrer österreichische Bewerber/Innen hatten und daher die Ergebnisse einschätzen können. Und es kommt ja auch noch auf den CV und das personal statement an.

Zur Bewerbung: In Bearbeitung ;-), aber die deadlines nahen...
quote
Hmmm...das Pieler Schreiben ist aber auch aus 2003 wenn ich mich recht erinnere, die Uniport Rankings (immerhin von Dekan Mayer unterfertigt) gibt es erst seit ca. 2005.

Ja ein Monat noch, wobei sich bei Columbia evtl. noch der "Early Review" ausgeht. Wie kommst du bei den Personal Statements voran? Berkeley ist mit 2 mal bis zu 1.000 Wörtern bei überschneidenden Themen (bottom line: academic interests) ziemlich mühsam :-/.
Hmmm...das Pieler Schreiben ist aber auch aus 2003 wenn ich mich recht erinnere, die Uniport Rankings (immerhin von Dekan Mayer unterfertigt) gibt es erst seit ca. 2005.

Ja ein Monat noch, wobei sich bei Columbia evtl. noch der "Early Review" ausgeht. Wie kommst du bei den Personal Statements voran? Berkeley ist mit 2 mal bis zu 1.000 Wörtern bei überschneidenden Themen (bottom line: academic interests) ziemlich mühsam :-/.
quote
Ich habe bisher nur mein Personal Statement für die Colombia fertig. Ich finde auch, dass sich das Personal Statement und die Personal Summary etwas überschneiden, zumal auch ein Personal Statement nicht ohne Hinweis auf die Entwicklung des juristischen Interesses auskommt. Vermutlich werde ich die Personal Summary etwas kürzer gestalten, als das Personal Statement.
Ich habe bisher nur mein Personal Statement für die Colombia fertig. Ich finde auch, dass sich das Personal Statement und die Personal Summary etwas überschneiden, zumal auch ein Personal Statement nicht ohne Hinweis auf die Entwicklung des juristischen Interesses auskommt. Vermutlich werde ich die Personal Summary etwas kürzer gestalten, als das Personal Statement.
quote
Hi,

ich habe die beiden Aufsätze folgendermaßen getrennt:

Statement of Purpose: Akademische Interessen, Pläne für den LL.M. und Pläne für nachher, also kurze Beschreibung des Ist-Zustandes und dann aber vor allem Beschreibung der kommenden Pläne und warum Berkeley gerade so gut passen würde.

Personal Summary: Beschreibung des (vor allem akademischen) Werdeganges, also im Grunde die Heranführung an den im Statement of Purpose genannten Ist-Zustand und ausführlichere Begründung meiner akademischen Interessen. Ich vermute mal, dass sie beim personal statement weniger interessiert wo ich in die Grundschule gegangen bin.

Viele Grüße!
Hi,

ich habe die beiden Aufsätze folgendermaßen getrennt:

Statement of Purpose: Akademische Interessen, Pläne für den LL.M. und Pläne für nachher, also kurze Beschreibung des Ist-Zustandes und dann aber vor allem Beschreibung der kommenden Pläne und warum Berkeley gerade so gut passen würde.

Personal Summary: Beschreibung des (vor allem akademischen) Werdeganges, also im Grunde die Heranführung an den im Statement of Purpose genannten Ist-Zustand und ausführlichere Begründung meiner akademischen Interessen. Ich vermute mal, dass sie beim personal statement weniger interessiert wo ich in die Grundschule gegangen bin.

Viele Grüße!
quote
Hey guys,

Hum well, I'm sort of in the same situation because I'm from France and it's a rule here, in certain law schools in particular, to give students the lowest grades they can, I'm not kidding.

In fact, I had the same question about grades but would have made it general since I haven't made up my mind yet about which schools I'm gonna apply to.

I know it varies from school to school but is it really possible to be accepted into any good LLM program in the US when you have no distinction ?

The thing is I don't speak a word of German :)

Could sb please summarize the above conversation for me?

Thanks in advance
Hey guys,

Hum well, I'm sort of in the same situation because I'm from France and it's a rule here, in certain law schools in particular, to give students the lowest grades they can, I'm not kidding.

In fact, I had the same question about grades but would have made it general since I haven't made up my mind yet about which schools I'm gonna apply to.

I know it varies from school to school but is it really possible to be accepted into any good LLM program in the US when you have no distinction ?

The thing is I don't speak a word of German :)

Could sb please summarize the above conversation for me?

Thanks in advance
quote
Hi black_aeon,

sorry for the discussion in German. The summary in English: First, the Austrian grading system was discussed and one author recommended including a description of the national grading system as well as a (un)official ranking with your application. I think that's a good idea - usually all universities are able to provide such information (i.e. applicant is ranked within the top 5/10/20% of all graduates) and I think that US universities will especially consider this percentage. By the way - coming from Germany I have a similar problem like you - our universities do not grant any honors, so all you have to show is your grade, but no additional distinction. But I am sure that admissions comittees are aware of that. Then the conversation drifted of to the two essays required by Berkeley (personal statement, statement of purpose) and how they (seemingly) overlap. Hope that helps.
Hi black_aeon,

sorry for the discussion in German. The summary in English: First, the Austrian grading system was discussed and one author recommended including a description of the national grading system as well as a (un)official ranking with your application. I think that's a good idea - usually all universities are able to provide such information (i.e. applicant is ranked within the top 5/10/20% of all graduates) and I think that US universities will especially consider this percentage. By the way - coming from Germany I have a similar problem like you - our universities do not grant any honors, so all you have to show is your grade, but no additional distinction. But I am sure that admissions comittees are aware of that. Then the conversation drifted of to the two essays required by Berkeley (personal statement, statement of purpose) and how they (seemingly) overlap. Hope that helps.
quote
Hi black_aeon,

sorry for the discussion in German. The summary in English: First, the Austrian grading system was discussed and one author recommended including a description of the national grading system as well as a (un)official ranking with your application. I think that's a good idea - usually all universities are able to provide such information (i.e. applicant is ranked within the top 5/10/20% of all graduates) and I think that US universities will especially consider this percentage. By the way - coming from Germany I have a similar problem like you - our universities do not grant any honors, so all you have to show is your grade, but no additional distinction. But I am sure that admissions comittees are aware of that. Then the conversation drifted of to the two essays required by Berkeley (personal statement, statement of purpose) and how they (seemingly) overlap. Hope that helps.


Hey sascha_away :)

Thanks for the summary!

I think the unofficial ranking is a good idea indeed. I mean my school grants distinctions but definitely not that manys. I just posted a thread about it because that's my main worry. I think it's weird that would have to justify why your grades are poor, the answer being "not because I'm an idiot but because some professors have trouble counting over 13".

Ah! At least I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one and that France is not an isolated case either.
<blockquote>Hi black_aeon,

sorry for the discussion in German. The summary in English: First, the Austrian grading system was discussed and one author recommended including a description of the national grading system as well as a (un)official ranking with your application. I think that's a good idea - usually all universities are able to provide such information (i.e. applicant is ranked within the top 5/10/20% of all graduates) and I think that US universities will especially consider this percentage. By the way - coming from Germany I have a similar problem like you - our universities do not grant any honors, so all you have to show is your grade, but no additional distinction. But I am sure that admissions comittees are aware of that. Then the conversation drifted of to the two essays required by Berkeley (personal statement, statement of purpose) and how they (seemingly) overlap. Hope that helps. </blockquote>

Hey sascha_away :)

Thanks for the summary!

I think the unofficial ranking is a good idea indeed. I mean my school grants distinctions but definitely not that manys. I just posted a thread about it because that's my main worry. I think it's weird that would have to justify why your grades are poor, the answer being "not because I'm an idiot but because some professors have trouble counting over 13".

Ah! At least I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one and that France is not an isolated case either.
quote
Hi black_aeon,

yeah, you needn't worry too much about the absolute value of your grade as long as you are relatively - compared to everyone else from your law school - good. The German grading system for the Legal State Exam is notoriously strict as well - the scale goes from 1 to 18 points, yet 80% to 85% stay below 9 points. A little while ago I communicated with the admissions office from U of Michigan about a related issue and they showed considerable knowledge of the German grading system. I am sure it's the same with the French grading system.

From an academic perspective I am interested in another aspect of your post and I'd like to read your opinion on that: Do law schools in France compete with each other for the best law students and are students free to choose where to attend law school? If yes then it would be interesting to know whether this affects the grading habits of the professors. In Germany the legal state exam just got split in two - part is administered by the university, the other part by the state - and regarding the university part, grades have definitely skyrocketed. This is attributed to professors competing within their law faculty for the best students, but also to law schools competing with other law schools for the best students (who, of course, go where they can expect to receive the best grades).
Hi black_aeon,

yeah, you needn't worry too much about the absolute value of your grade as long as you are relatively - compared to everyone else from your law school - good. The German grading system for the Legal State Exam is notoriously strict as well - the scale goes from 1 to 18 points, yet 80% to 85% stay below 9 points. A little while ago I communicated with the admissions office from U of Michigan about a related issue and they showed considerable knowledge of the German grading system. I am sure it's the same with the French grading system.

From an academic perspective I am interested in another aspect of your post and I'd like to read your opinion on that: Do law schools in France compete with each other for the best law students and are students free to choose where to attend law school? If yes then it would be interesting to know whether this affects the grading habits of the professors. In Germany the legal state exam just got split in two - part is administered by the university, the other part by the state - and regarding the university part, grades have definitely skyrocketed. This is attributed to professors competing within their law faculty for the best students, but also to law schools competing with other law schools for the best students (who, of course, go where they can expect to receive the best grades).
quote
From an academic perspective I am interested in another aspect of your post and I'd like to read your opinion on that: Do law schools in France compete with each other for the best law students and are students free to choose where to attend law school? If yes then it would be interesting to know whether this affects the grading habits of the professors. In Germany the legal state exam just got split in two - part is administered by the university, the other part by the state - and regarding the university part, grades have definitely skyrocketed. This is attributed to professors competing within their law faculty for the best students, but also to law schools competing with other law schools for the best students (who, of course, go where they can expect to receive the best grades).


Hi Sasha,

I'm glad to hear the person in charge of the admissions told you they understand the little crazyness of our system, that's good news. I'll figure out some extensive explanation of the French system anyways because it's important.

Concerning your question about law schools in France...I could talk for hours but I'll try to be short :-)

First of all, I don't know how it is in Germany, but in France, we go law school right after we graduate from high school which means, unlike what happens in the US, we don't go to college for general studies before law school. A lot of people go to law school randomly with a vague idea or no idea at all of what law actually is, hoping it will turn out good for them. The result is, the majority quit a few months later when they find out what it's all about.

As for the competition you mentioned, I would say that both schools and students compete for the best they can get. Schools only compete when it comes to the 5th and last year of law school : for the Masters. Some schools, especially the top law schools in Paris, the Sorbonne and Assas as well as some others are really difficult to get in for the Masters. You defintely can't expect to get into some programs if your grades are no good and if you've never been granted any distinction. So, if your application is great, then you can litteraly pick up your school, if not, good luck. Before the Masters, it doesn't seem to me that there's any kind of competition going on. To my knowledge there's no grade competition either.

What's most comical I think (I'm not really laughing) is that even after they have carefully selected you for a Master's program, they allow themselves to be only a little more fair about grades even tho they tell you how smart you are since they accepted you...

I'm not sure I replied to your question, I hope I did :-)
<blockquote>From an academic perspective I am interested in another aspect of your post and I'd like to read your opinion on that: Do law schools in France compete with each other for the best law students and are students free to choose where to attend law school? If yes then it would be interesting to know whether this affects the grading habits of the professors. In Germany the legal state exam just got split in two - part is administered by the university, the other part by the state - and regarding the university part, grades have definitely skyrocketed. This is attributed to professors competing within their law faculty for the best students, but also to law schools competing with other law schools for the best students (who, of course, go where they can expect to receive the best grades). </blockquote>

Hi Sasha,

I'm glad to hear the person in charge of the admissions told you they understand the little crazyness of our system, that's good news. I'll figure out some extensive explanation of the French system anyways because it's important.

Concerning your question about law schools in France...I could talk for hours but I'll try to be short :-)

First of all, I don't know how it is in Germany, but in France, we go law school right after we graduate from high school which means, unlike what happens in the US, we don't go to college for general studies before law school. A lot of people go to law school randomly with a vague idea or no idea at all of what law actually is, hoping it will turn out good for them. The result is, the majority quit a few months later when they find out what it's all about.

As for the competition you mentioned, I would say that both schools and students compete for the best they can get. Schools only compete when it comes to the 5th and last year of law school : for the Masters. Some schools, especially the top law schools in Paris, the Sorbonne and Assas as well as some others are really difficult to get in for the Masters. You defintely can't expect to get into some programs if your grades are no good and if you've never been granted any distinction. So, if your application is great, then you can litteraly pick up your school, if not, good luck. Before the Masters, it doesn't seem to me that there's any kind of competition going on. To my knowledge there's no grade competition either.

What's most comical I think (I'm not really laughing) is that even after they have carefully selected you for a Master's program, they allow themselves to be only a little more fair about grades even tho they tell you how smart you are since they accepted you...

I'm not sure I replied to your question, I hope I did :-)
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peach
hallo an alle wiener

wir habt ihr das mit der übersetzung der zeugnisse gemacht, lsac oder lieber das vom dekanat, und reicht dass für lsac wenn ich denen computerausdruck schicke, bin momentan etwas verwirrt ????

danke
hallo an alle wiener

wir habt ihr das mit der übersetzung der zeugnisse gemacht, lsac oder lieber das vom dekanat, und reicht dass für lsac wenn ich denen computerausdruck schicke, bin momentan etwas verwirrt ????

danke
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