Hey Folks,
applied for LLM. in Commercial laws. I got through Durham Uni, Aberdeen Uni, Cardiff Uni, Newcastle Uni, Leicester and Leeds.( am Avoiding london mostly ) and Bristol ( hope to hear from them, and i talked to someone from the international office and heard that they have misplaced my application , i handed over to them , when they came to India..so i had all stuff done again and scanned and send them via e-mail)

After much thought , i think to choose between Cardiff and Durham. Could you guys please provide me with your insights.I am mostly intrested in Anti-trust/Competition, M&A , Corporate Governance and IPR.

I think what separates Cardiff is , they have a fantastic modules, international perspective in their modules. with Anti-trustsmodule , where you get international view-point, insurance laws, banking laws, carriage of good by sea, air and land, telecommunicationa law etc.They even have a Pro-Bono programme for their law students and 'Innocence Project'.And Durham, has modules but they are mostly towards EU laws, like they have EU antitrust laws,and modules don't seem too intresting, i don't think they have some 'pro-bono'. I think Durham LL.M. is more toward EU laws.And, since i am from India, i may not be specifically intrested in too much UK/EU legal specialism, am looking towards an international exposure in terms of the course.as later on i have to deal in multi-juristiction areas.

So, what would be a better option , cardiff , which i think has better modules and would provide better international view-point.

And , do league tables matter ? Durham , is highly ranked , so does Aberdeen , but isn't they take their reserch from Under-grads, and don't consider Graduate courses.

Insights would be helpful.

hey, where is everyone?

Seems people don't have any opinion .

Hey nishant!

Choosing a law school is a very difficult matter for every LL.M student. I think I don't have to tell you that Durham and Aberdeen are higher ranked than Cardiff. (But as I know, rankings are based on the LLB Undergraduates concerns.). From an UK point of view this would be one key factor while deciding where to go.

For you, one question should be how important these rankings are in your country. I, for example, asked a former professor and an employer, how important UK law school rankings are for the German employment market. They, both, told me that if I won't go to Cambridge or Oxford, there would be no difference which law school I will choose (okay it shouldn't be totally unknown, but that's not the matter with Cardiff). They advised me to choose the program which will allow me to take the modules I am really interested in. So I made my decision by having a closer look to the modules, the facilities and the other opportunities the law schools offer (for example libraries, extra services for international students, accommodation).

To sum it up, you should ask yourself (and others) which law school / LL.M would improve your chances to get a job in my home country afterwards. Maybe rankings are less important than you believe.

Good luck for your decision.

I don't agree with Private Equity - too sweeping a statement in my opinion. As has been suggested already, the views of the those on your home turf (or that where you hope to work) would be important. I also find it hard to believe (from my own time in practice) that people in law firms won't take into account specialised knowledge, especially in technical areas of law (competition, IP, IT and such like) rather than those just involving deal management. Of course, for this argument to work, the institution needs to have some profile (whether through the individual reputation of a particular member of staff, or more generally in that area). Of course, you should also consider your own personal development and what you are interested in, otherwise the year will be one hard slog, which seems rather a wasted opportunity.

To Law Girl,

Thanks for the post . Yeah , i too believe that Ranking don't matter too much though . And , yeah Cardiff is well known internationally.
Durham, though is quite good In UK , But i think its for the Undergrad courses.
And, on top of all these things , About cardiff, The school may be ranked below nationally of Durham or Aberdeen, But its stature is Huge when we see 'International Rankings such as QS Symonds or 'Shanghai Jiao Tong University' - World Rankings.
And yeah, Employers know Cardiff In South-Asia very well, As the university has very strong links with the best law schools in the region , as well as the top law firms who belong to the 'Indian Magic Circle'.
Plus, the Modules are excellent. Has a strong 'Pro-Bono' programme. Also has a atrong 'Mooting Society', participating in International Moot Trials. And , has law fair twice in a year , where you can network with the Top firms in and around U.K.
So , what more can you ask, apart from studies, cardiff , though seems to be an intresting city and so are the 'welsh 'people with all friendly and Inclusive attitute( Though have to experience that, I have heard this from Top Supreme Court lawyers, who once studies at Cardiff Uni.)

So thank' a lot, Law Girl.

Hey nishant!

Choosing a law school is a very difficult matter for every LL.M student. I think I don't have to tell you that Durham and Aberdeen are higher ranked than Cardiff. (But as I know, rankings are based on the LLB Undergraduates concerns.). From an UK point of view this would be one key factor while deciding where to go.

For you, one question should be how important these rankings are in your country. I, for example, asked a former professor and an employer, how important UK law school rankings are for the German employment market. They, both, told me that if I won't go to Cambridge or Oxford, there would be no difference which law school I will choose (okay it shouldn't be totally unknown, but that's not the matter with Cardiff). They advised me to choose the program which will allow me to take the modules I am really interested in. So I made my decision by having a closer look to the modules, the facilities and the other opportunities the law schools offer (for example libraries, extra services for international students, accommodation).

To sum it up, you should ask yourself (and others) which law school / LL.M would improve your chances to get a job in my home country afterwards. Maybe rankings are less important than you believe.

Good luck for your decision.

To Equity ,
Thanks for the post though, as a matter of fact, law school rankings , seem to be undergraduates, and in UK context , don't you think that RAE will be a better criteria.
Also , as i said , Cardiff , though lower ranked in UK leauge tables, has a very strong presence internationally , its ranked Top 99 (2007). Top 101(2008), Globally.
So , apart from that,the strengths are-
1. Up-to-date and Industry relevant Modules. Have seen modules og uni like Hull and so , they seem to be more towards those who want to be professors.
2. A UK Ivy leauge University ( Russell Group is Uk Ivy leauge)
3. Has a strong 'pro-Bono' programme.
4. Its well known internationally , especially in ASIA , South-Asia- i can tell , has very strong reputation amongst law firms, with strong links with the Indian magic circle Firms.
5.Has law fairs(twice in a year) where you can meet law firms and corporations UK wide, that too twice in your academic session.
The strongs are too strong though.
Thanks for your opinion.

meant to say talking about, mistype;)

TO Equity ,

So , you prefer the rankings. Okay. So lets tallk rankings.

Cardiff University is ranked top 99 worldwide(QS SYMONDS World Uni Rankings) - In 2007 . Again , Its Ranked 101 ( Year 2008, 2009 Rankings are not out as yet .- Shangai Jiao Tong University- Centre for World Class Universities-2008 Rankings.

Versus, Durham University, Ranked Top 10 In Uk ( As per Undergraduate Concerns , Such as Guardian, And Times.
But Ranked quite low Internationally, ranked 152 Globally.

Versus , Bristol And MAnchester, Good International Rankings.Manchester is to 40 , globally.And , Bristol is Top 61, Worldwide rankings of all world universities.

I personally think , that Universities such as Cardiff and Manchester has a mix. They have good modules , Strong world rankings as well the Employers know them In asia .

Yeah, if i would have been in London , which i am avoiding because of the high cost of living. I would have preferred LSE, which has Post-grad Students out-numbering Under-Grad students. Plus, its a leading social sciences University, its International.

TO Equity ,

So , you prefer the rankings. Okay. So lets tallk rankings.

Cardiff University is ranked top 99 worldwide(QS SYMONDS World Uni Rankings) - In 2007 . Again , Its Ranked 101 ( Year 2008, 2009 Rankings are not out as yet .- Shangai Jiao Tong University- Centre for World Class Universities-2008 Rankings.

Versus, Durham University, Ranked Top 10 In Uk ( As per Undergraduate Concerns , Such as Guardian, And Times.
But Ranked quite low Internationally, ranked 152 Globally.

Versus , Bristol And MAnchester, Good International Rankings.Manchester is to 40 , globally.And , Bristol is Top 61, Worldwide rankings of all world universities.

I personally think , that Universities such as Cardiff and Manchester has a mix. They have good modules , Strong world rankings as well the Employers know them In asia .

Yeah, if i would have been in London , which i am avoiding because of the high cost of living. I would have preferred LSE, which has Post-grad Students out-numbering Under-Grad students. Plus, its a leading social sciences University, its International.

Guys, I often wonder as to WHY you ask your questions. What do you actually want-to find out the truth or to confirm what YOU have decided already?
If it is the first one, please go ahead and aks, if it is the second-why bother and waste other people's time (people who were kind enough to reply).
Moreover, many of you quote your teachers saying that they said that your modules were important and because of them you should apply to a lower r
anking school. Of course, the teachers will say that because they are passionate about their subjects and they are not planning to leave academia.
The real world is different and the MBA rule applies to LLM as well-
"go for the best ranking programme you can be admitted to and your
money can buy, unless you want to specialise in a very narrow
area not
taught by
top ranking
schools". Employers value ranking more than your thought process
regarding modules. Period. Hash but true.
I learned my lesson the hard way, if you want to do the samw,
you are wellcome. You will only be the first ones to say to your
current teachers, and so called advisors and friends why did not you tell
me this.
By the way, the second thing after rankings it is your grades, not modules. Hence, you are more likely to get a job in a law firm if you aced history of law than did less well in subjects you were actually planning to practice. However, here the case is less clear cut-depends on exactly how poorly have you done.

Firstly , This is a discussion that mostly every one of students coming to Graduate School faces. Which school to choose. Its not just few of us who have faced this delimma. It has been faced by most , except people who are going to schools like yale or Harvard, or Northwestern or Oxbridge do no face. And , in the coming years newer pupils will too face this decision.
And if some one faced a huge problem because he didn't gave heed to rankings, dosen't mean that every Individual in this world will face the same hurdles. Law careers are made of prior planning, networking, good communication and lanuage, drafting, negotiation skills. And other Inter-personal skills, knowing what is business.

Its not a point of which law school is best. But what suits you as an Individual. You can go to a large university and feel completely lost. or go a College and perform quite well academically. The best fit model.
And there are people who say that Durham or Aberdeen will have good names In south asia. I doub't if lawyers in India even recognise these universities here. As most haven't even heard them , as compared to KCL , LSE, Leeds, Oxbridge.
As a matter of fact the other law school , cardiff has ties with 'Amar chand mangal Dass Shroff & Co.', Fox Mandal Little, to name a few in India.
Facts do speak of themselves.

Guys, I often wonder as to WHY you ask your questions. What do you actually want-to find out the truth or to confirm what YOU have decided already?
If it is the first one, please go ahead and aks, if it is the second-why bother and waste other people's time (people who were kind enough to reply).
Moreover, many of you quote your teachers saying that they said that your modules were important and because of them you should apply to a lower r
anking school. Of course, the teachers will say that because they are passionate about their subjects and they are not planning to leave academia.
The real world is different and the MBA rule applies to LLM as well-
"go for the best ranking programme you can be admitted to and your
money can buy, unless you want to specialise in a very narrow
area not
taught by
top ranking
schools". Employers value ranking more than your thought process
regarding modules. Period. Hash but true.
I learned my lesson the hard way, if you want to do the samw,
you are wellcome. You will only be the first ones to say to your
current teachers, and so called advisors and friends why did not you tell
me this.
By the way, the second thing after rankings it is your grades, not modules. Hence, you are more likely to get a job in a law firm if you aced history of law than did less well in subjects you were actually planning to practice. However, here the case is less clear cut-depends on exactly how poorly have you done.

I completely second Private Equity's opinion here...I dont understand why people really seek an honest advice when they cant accept some facts.

Mostly I have seen that people on this forum first want the others to know where they have got in and if you tell them that they have got in perhaphs one of the best law schools (eventhough the rankings for LLM says otherwise)they are very happy but the moment one tells them the real facts they very irked and take things personally. They get into endless debates to convince others, what I dont understand is that, if one is so convinced about a particular law school then why are they so bothered about the opinion of the others in general.

The world knows the repuation of the colleges. I am from India and have worked with reputed law firms and financial institutions. This may sound really harsh but Cardiff is not perceived as one best schools in UK for LLM atleast in India.

Trust me nobody cares about the world ranking that you have been so bothered about. The legal fratenity knows the ranking and reputation of any college in the UK and the US.

Crux of the matter, if you are so convinced about Cardiff, go ahead and join it, no point trying to convince others on the forum that its better than the other law school viz. Durham or Aberdeen

To Equity,
With no offence, I appreciate you feed back though. It been a discussion. SO , it seems that you wanna say that Durham, at any chance will be a better uni. Okay.
But, check the modules. Leaving a few , most of the modules don't fit in with me , or the area i want to specialise.
Ultimately, i need to move to Asia , India or HK or Singapore.So what's the point in Studying Eu Competition law solely, or Eu law.
Please if feasible do check the modules of both the schools.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Listen Nishant, I have worked with one of the law firms that u mentioned in your post and let me tell you one thing very clearly that I do agree that Oxford, Cambrigde, LSE, UCL and Kings have a great prominence there. However, I strongly differ from the view that Cardiff has a great reputation in one of the law firms that you mentioned. Please check your facts correctly.

I guess this too will be my last post like Private Equity...:)

Anyways, All the Best!

To Equity,
With no offence, I appreciate you feed back though. It been a discussion. SO , it seems that you wanna say that Durham, at any chance will be a better uni. Okay.
But, check the modules. Leaving a few , most of the modules don't fit in with me , or the area i want to specialise.
Ultimately, i need to move to Asia , India or HK or Singapore.So what's the point in Studying Eu Competition law solely, or Eu law.
Please if feasible do check the modules of both the schools.

Thanks for your suggestions.