Dear all,

I'm interested in starting my studies for an LLM in Commercial / Financial Law in 2010/11. Without any actual legal background (i got my Finance degree several years ago and have obtained a CPA qualification during my career; have been working in corporate banking since graduation tho with some experience in financial regulation and compliance), I'm very lucky to have secured a no. of offers for LLM, including Warwick, QMUL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Southampton, Leicester and Newcastle (have applied to quite some unis coz kind of expected that some would reject me, which was also true...) However, I've been quite torn in making the right choice, coz after all it's an important choice for a lifetime.

Right now I'm mostly choosing among Warwick, QMUL & Notts (haven't placed Ed as my first choice since i'm from Hong Kong, i.e. a common law jurisdiction that should be most similar to the English legal system), and now leaning towards Warwick - LLM in International Corporate Governance & Financial Regulation, based on the course relevance and satisfactory reputation in law. Plus i believe Warwick has a strong overall prestige in UK and worldwide, so i guess an LLM from Warwick would help me in my future career, mostly probably in the financial sector or consulting (and not likely in Law as LLM is not a qualifying degree as i knew from here). However, it seems that people from this site are not having many comments, or particularly great comments about Warwick and its LLM Int'l Corp Gov & Fin Reg programme. May i know if any of you have any comments about my intended course, or other choices that i should better make? Would Warwick be a good / good-fit choice given my background? Would greatly appreciate any sorts of ideas and comments.

Btw, as i basically knew nothing before about the LLMs offered in the UK, I've been looking up all sorts of info and comments from the forums here over the past few months, and found this site very helpful throughout my application process. Really thank you all.

And here i also wish to encourage everyboby with a non-law background who is interested in doing an LLM for further studies. Apart from the fact that i've been so lucky, my little advice is that you all gotta make a great deal of efforts in your application, especially your PS in stating why you wish to do it, it would definitely help!!

Thanks once again and hope to hear from you all soon : )

Why not KCL,UCL,LSE or Oxbridge? I have a very similar background. Got into Cambridge,,,Suggest that you should reapply to one of the top 5 unis next year rather than go to the ones you got in...

I believe when I last looked at the websites of Oxbridge universities, they expressly stated that they'll require a legal background to be considered for their LLM programmes. I've actually a business background myself and I got accepted into Warwick and Nottingham LLM programms. You most probably will not regret if you go to Warwick; judging by the newspaper rankings and the rankings of governmental agencies it's a top uni. As you correctly state it has the best ranking as an university among your other alternatives. However, specifically in the area of law, Nottingham seems to be a little bit better (e.g. the Times ranked the law school of Nottingham recently 4th in the UK, right after Oxford, Cambridge and LSE).
All in all, however, my advise would be if the course structure at Warwick suits your needs better than other alternatives, go for Warwick.

Kind regards,
lawstudent2010

Oxbridge does make exemptions as I got in....Studying their right now.. Have finance background...Also got into KCL...
Warwick is a good school though...

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments which are all helpful for me. As for Private Equity's suggestion for me to apply for some top law schools in the UK, well i've actually tried LSE & KCL too but got rejected (which i anticipated but it's still alright..); haven't tried UCL as they specifically say that they want candidates with (some) law background, and let alone Oxbridge who admits the very top students while i had a 2:1 for my first degree... and Private Equity i suppose you have a very strong academic and professional profile to get into Cambridge? Anyway it's really great for you to be studying in such a great uni, believe you're enjoying your time there.

And Lawstudent2010, seems we are facing similar choices right now. May i know if you're from the UK or also an international, and are you from Finance or other business sector? Besides, as you suggested, i'm basing my decision on both overall uni reputation as well as the course structure / relevance. When i look into the module lists, the one from Nottingham is quite impressive with like 50 modules to choose from, yet it seems most of them are related to Commercial law and not many choices available in financial law stream, like M&A, securities market, etc. (tho they have insolvency, investment law and financial regulation), in that sense Warwick looks like having more to offer (given my financial background i mean). Am i right or wrong in this? Would anyone have knowledge on any of these programmes / course choices to share with us? Any thoughts would be great. Thanks in advance!!

And Lawstudent2010, see if we'll have the chance to meet at the same uni!

Oxbridge does make exemptions as I got in....Studying their right now.. Have finance background...Also got into KCL...
Warwick is a good school though...

Hi Charista,

I'm actually from Germany and my first degree was in business management without a specialisation. I agree with you, when I looked at the business related law subjects at Warwick I liked them more. They have, for example, a tax law subject which Nottingham doesn't have. However, I would like to study a mixture of international business/commercial and public law and, at this time, I'm leaning somewhat more towards Nottingham. I wish you much luck to choose the right programme.

Kind regards,
lawstudent2010

Hi there
I had a 1st class degree in finance and economics followed by a master in the same subjects in a premier UK uni. That was more than 10 years ago. Since then I worked in private equity and investment banking. I am a a chartered member of the securities and investment institute with an FSA number (passed authorisation exams in securities, investment management and corporate finance) and an institute of directors. In order to get the chartered status (professional qualification) you have to take several exams. The finance/securities law such as FSMA 2000, listing rules, corporate governance aspects, directors duties were covered to some extend but obviously not in such much details as these professional qualifications were meant for bankers, not lawyers.
Hope this helps

Sorry for misspel...difficult to write using blackberry....

Lawstudent...I have done a lot of research into this ans asked people in the City. The commonly held view that for people with our background it is either Oxbridge, or LSE/KCL/UCL, Edinburgh, possibly Durham and possibly City (it is famous for its Cass business school with some spillover effect) or nothing really....Or, with Aberdeen being an exemption if you are into oil/gas/commodities or Southampton if you are into shipping...
Warwick/Nottingham/Bristol while had good law schools were perceived as a bit of a waste of time...But do not forget my situation is different. I have a 1st class degree and an MSc in Finance from the top uni (key module with distinction) + 10 year work experience...So I had a lot to lose....

Hi Private Equity,
You certainly may have a good point about why Oxbridge, Edinburgh etc. would be a good choice for a non-lawyer and why Nottingham/Warwick would be a bad choice for a non-lawyer. On the other hand, your argumentation would be more comprehensible to us if you would give us some rational. Is it, for example, the structure of the courses of the unis in question that did lead you and people you spoke with to the conclusion above? I believe that I could make a legitimate claim that Warwick is actually a good choice to study law for someone with a business background because Warwick has one of the most reputable business programmes in the UK and in Europe. This means that chances are that some of the Warwick's business reputation will positively rub off on the other degrees they offer and the LLM will be perceived more favourably by employers from the business sector.

KInd regards,
lawstudent2010

Below Oxbridge and a couple of colleges at UoL, then there are a handful of universities that have very strong reputations. How you order them is predominently a personal choice. I would find it hard to believe, for example, that Edinburgh's law school would be held in higher esteem than Nottingham.

When we're talking about this level of institution then you're not going to hurt your prospects by the choice you end up making.

Try finding out which law firms attend the universities' law careers fairs. They may be aimed more at undergraduates but the fact that high numbers of the very top firms are in attendance should indicate that they value the university and the addition of a qualification from that institution might help give your application a boost. Just remember that university prestige shouldn't be the sole factor for applying to study an LLM there.

Hi guys
There are two reasons a non-lawyer can study law: (1) purely for himself/herself without any regard for people in recruitment and not planning to utilise the new skills/degree as a tool to get a (hopefully better) job.
(2) to improve the current job prospects, to get promoted etc.
In the (1) case you should go entirely with the modules - do whatever you like, pick the school/class/teacher you like.
(2) you have to "adjust" your priorities to whatever the market thinks which, may or may not be correct. I can be very diplomatic and say to people on this website - congratulations! all of these schools are great! you will get a job offer immediately! but this will be a really misleading thing to do...Let's put it this way - I much preferred KCL finance courses but picked Cam because there is just no point to make people believe in what they will never believe...It is great that if you believe that you picked the best course for you but this will not give you a promotion from others who tend to believe something else.
Unfortunately, Nottingham is a miles away from Edinburgh...Edinburgh is often ranked as high as Oxbridge and the LSE (and sometimes higher than UCL/KCL)..This is just a fact of life...
Hence, if you want a promotion you should not go anywhere other than Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/KCL/Edin/Durham...if you after the knowledge other good unis are fine

Take it from a Finance person...Warwick bus school/MBA programme is not ranked that highly....To be quite honest, even Oxbridge programmes is not that great...If you after an MBA there is really only LBS, if you are after MSc Finance, there are LBS, LSE and possibly Imperial...If you are after something very specialised than some Cass masters are quite popular. Reading (ICMA centre) used to be OK but not any longer....
Warwick, Cranfield, etc...fell by the way side

I think you're being very harsh on Nottingham there. I'd personally rank it higher than Edinburgh for law, just as rankings tables do. I'm not saying Edinburgh isn't good for law, just that I would add Nottingham to your list of universities that would be worth having on your CV to improve your employment prospects.

Hi Panthro
Unfortunately you will be a minority here as far as City recruiters and HR are concerned (presumably you are thinking of the City)
Nottingham is very popular among local offices of Big 4 accountancy firms and manufacturing companies but not I banks, PE firms or major law firms....Bristol will be slightly better placed....You will find a hardly anyone with Not degree on analyst/associate programmes in these places...Plenty from Edi and plenty from Durham...Just one of these facts of life...Which one cannot explain but just have to accept

Hi PE, I'd be inclined to agree with you for most areas but law is a bit different. The law school at Nottingham is very highly regarded, and there are a number of Nottingham law graduates that go on to have careers within big city firms. I'm unsure of your background but I'm from the UK and I know that my opinion is quite widely held domestically. If you look in the Training Contract and Pupillage Handbook, one of the main legal careers resources, there are one or two Nottingham graduates giving feedback on their experience within the large firms they work in.

Perhaps domestically my views on Edinburgh are affected by reservations regarding jurisdiction but, while I wouldn't base decisions on league tables, it's worth pointing out that Nottingham ranks 4th for law this year.

I don't have any allegiance to Nottingham, indeed I'm probably going to turn down their offer in favour of Durham as Durham was always one of my two first choices.

Smart move, Panthro...I spent most of my life in the UK, so from that point UK as well...I have finance/I banking background and spent the past 12 years in the City going up through the ranks (inlcuding the first 2 years in Big 5 accounting)...Hence, I have given you an IB / City perspective on things. There was noone from Oxbridge/Edi/Durnham in my accountancy firm, the jobs were too boring for them. Plenty of Mnachester, Nott, Bristol, Birmy...The sutuation was completely reversed in I-banking....I always thought that Magic cicle law=i-banking, at least when we hired lawyers on transactions frm Clifford/Links/Freshfields/Allen %Overy/White and Case - there was only Oxbridge+LSE/UCL/KCL there

Private Equity, I certainly appreciate and respect your input. However, I think that hard data would be more supportive of Panthro's opinion. Here are some facts from Wikipedia (if you discount Wikipedia, we could easily verify the data because references are provided):
University of Nottingham is:
*'ranking among the top 20 most targeted universities in the world by leading employers.'
*According to the 2008 Times High Fliers it is 'named in the top 3 most targeted British universities by leading graduate recruiters.'
*In a 2009 survey ranked as 3rd in the UK as to the number of alumni listed among CEOs
In addition, according to the 2008 evaluation of the Higher Education Funding Council (HEFCE) 30 percent of law research at Nottingham received the highest rating of 4. That's less then Oxford which got 35 percent but it's more than Cambridge's law department which received a 4 for only 25 percent of its research.

Regards,
lawstudent2010

I am not disputing but all of these CEOs will be in manufacturing , not banking or commercial law. Be very careful with how you use stats....For the same reason, these universities are very popular with recruiting firms such as Post Office (post office takes plenty of graduates), ICI, Marks & Spencer, British Petroleum etc...These unis are in industrial areas, where offices and facilities of these companies are located. They prefer students from good nearby universities....If you look at stats Edi students will be the most popular with pension funds and insurance firms, which are located in the city...A typical I-banking graduate programme might only have 100 places max in the UK across all of the divisions....Hence, Goldman Sachs will never be the largest graduate employer. Clifford Chance is about the same...Hence, by the time you get to Nott, Manchester etc there are just no places left, all taken by Oxbridge....Anyway, back to exam revision