Hi all, I would be grateful any advice opinions people have on this:
I'm pretty keen on becoming a barrister in the UK, and have just started the GDL at College of Law, after a Classics BA at Oxford. I want to specialise in public law, but get the impression that in this field any applications I might make without a good LLM (at the very least) won't stand much of a chance (even though my academic credentials are otherwise pretty good). Can anyone confirm this? Would be oh so grateful for advice.
best,
hugh

i think the fact you got into and graduated from Oxford is better than an LLM. as long as you have minimum a 2.1, then you should have no problem getting pupillage at the public bar. i 'd go get your BVC out the way first, test the waters, and then see if an LLM will help. unless you are intrisically interested in the LLM then it would be a waste of time, effort, and money to do it only to find out that you could easily have obtained pupillage without it.

you are better off playing the Oxford card for all it's worth, completing the BVC, and putting in a lot of effort in mooting - both on the BVC and at the Inns of Court. Get work experience at the FRE or some similar non profit advocacy organization, and perhaps try and pen and publish a few public law/bar related articles in the summer before the BVC commences.

if i were you, i'd try and get pupillage and tenancy first, and then, a few years down the road, perhaps do an LLM to specialize. you can always then move to a different set, and/or combine practice with academia.

As with all things I think context is essential. To say "will an LLM get me into the public law Bar?" asks a whole series of questions.

First - what do you mean by the Public Law Bar? If you mean Blackstones, Matrix, Landmark etc (i.e. massively prestigious public law sets) then the chances are that most people will have either further degrees or have other experience - that much is obvious if you look at the CVs of tenants. If you aren't setting your sights on what is traditionally considered the 'upper end' of the Public law bar then this becomes less the case. A large proportion of the coal-face public work in England (immigration, housing etc) gets done at smaller, less well known sets and these may not have the same out-look as regards further degrees. Just by way of survey, go to the OLPAS website; www.pupillages.com and search all the chambers that list public law as their speciality and have a look at the CVs of their tenants at less than 5 years' call. That should give you a good idea.

The second question is what you mean by LLM. If you are aiming Blackstones high then, again by reference to the evidence, you'll probably need a good BCL or LLM from Cambridge or a pretty excellent result from another very well renowned university. Similarly you're choice of subjects make a difference. Sets like people who are actually interested in what they do. I just finished my LLM at UCL and spent a good deal of a pupillage interview at a public law set discussing the finer points of legitimate expectations as that's what I did my thesis on. Interest breeds interst if you see what I mean.

I know this is a bit of a long way round your question but I should say that having done a Cambridge undergraduate degree and a UCL LLM (2:1 and distinction respectively), mooted my backside off in university, have a public law article published and I *still* don't have pupillage so just a a word of caution - nothing is guaranteed, but no doubt you knew that already...

Thanks, all that was v helpful. Yet the fact that you're without pupillage despite everything rather alarming. Were you aiming particuarly high - Blackstones etc?

Also do you have a view on whether the specialisation which an LLM gives you can backfire? What I mean is I'm concerned about doing an predominantly public law LLM, then not getting a pupillage at a public law set, and then not being able to get in elsewhere either because they'll realise they're being chosen as a second choice. Obviously the answer would be to do a variety of things on the LLM, but the thesis is inevitably specialist, and I imagine its tempting for employers to characterise you by it.

Also a final question about public law pupillage generally - if you're still reading...: from your experience, is it considerably more heavily applied for than other areas? Crime does seem a little more straightforward to get in, but apart from that how does public law compare - for example getting into a goodish public set as opposed to a goodish chancery set?

Cheers, and good luck

Oh and just one more quick question - Why UCL rather than KCL - is there much to choose between them in your opinion?

On the UCL vs KCL question it becomes much more important this year than it was last year given that the intercollegiate LLM has finished. I think you should look at who will be teaching you on the course. The main public guy at KCL is Robert Blackburn who is good. At UCL there's Dawn Oliver and Jeffery Jowell who are both also excellent. I think it really comes down to whether they offer the courses that you want, taught by people who you want to be taught by. Read some of their work, it'll give you an insight into what they're like as people and what they're likely to expect from you as a student.

As to the pupillage issue and specialisation I wouldn't worry about it too much. I did two International Commercial modules and two public modules (one of which was my thesis) and no-one in interview ever accused me of being flighty with their subject. I think its more important to demonstrate a genuine interest in that area of law and to know something about it than to necessarily have done it for your LLM. Obviously if you're looking at completely different areas of law in terms of chambers they might be a bit wary if you haven't even looked at their specialism but I think that's more an interview thing than an LLM Choice. I think insovency chambers are particularly like that but then you're not too concerned with that!

I hope this helps a little, as I said before I can only speak from my experience so don't take this as gospel truth! If you've got any other questions I'll do my best to answer them!