Oxford Chances


SwissGuy


I think that question is rather abstract. You need to specify. There are other variables that are as important as your percentile, such as:
1) how many people were in your year? If you're top 5 percent but you graduated with only 50 in your year, that's really not as impressive as someone who made top 5 out of 500 people
2) what is your university's reputation? I assume that a lower reputed university would require a higher relative ranking


Ok, I'm really bad at math so could you explain 1) again? I mean being in the top 5% should be just as hard in a very large class as in a small one, or not? In the small class you have less competition but there are also less spots in the top 5%. In the large class you have more competition but also more spots in the top 5%....
I would see how it is harder to get a top 5 *rank* in a larger class, but not when we talk about percentage...

Can anyone explain this to me like I am 5? :-)


This is not about being bad at maths. Knowing how to calculate the % of X is pure general knowledge, like being able to say instantaneously the result of 12x12 or 9+1. Everyone knows (or should know) how much they stack up...
The formula is 5% x (the number of students in your class).

You're right. If there's a larger cohort, there's a larger group of students who graduate in top 5%, thus more intense competition. If there's a smaller one, it's vice-versa.

It's not about who's in the rank, I.e. you're the 4th best and I'm the 5th, and after me the rest doesn't matter.

Let's say you have 220 students in your class. 5%x220=11. So 11 people are in top 5%. Hope this helps.


Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?
[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]A related question: Do you nice people out there think it is enough to be top 5% to have chance or is it necessary to be in the top 3-2-1% range somewhere?

Thanks! Cheers!
[/quote]

I have read on this forum that you should be more or less in the running if you are in the top 5%. Is this true?[/quote]

I think that question is rather abstract. You need to specify. There are other variables that are as important as your percentile, such as:
1) how many people were in your year? If you're top 5 percent but you graduated with only 50 in your year, that's really not as impressive as someone who made top 5 out of 500 people
2) what is your university's reputation? I assume that a lower reputed university would require a higher relative ranking
[/quote]

Ok, I'm really bad at math so could you explain 1) again? I mean being in the top 5% should be just as hard in a very large class as in a small one, or not? In the small class you have less competition but there are also less spots in the top 5%. In the large class you have more competition but also more spots in the top 5%....
I would see how it is harder to get a top 5 *rank* in a larger class, but not when we talk about percentage...

Can anyone explain this to me like I am 5? :-)[/quote]

This is not about being bad at maths. Knowing how to calculate the % of X is pure general knowledge, like being able to say instantaneously the result of 12x12 or 9+1. Everyone knows (or should know) how much they stack up...
The formula is 5% x (the number of students in your class).

You're right. If there's a larger cohort, there's a larger group of students who graduate in top 5%, thus more intense competition. If there's a smaller one, it's vice-versa.

It's not about who's in the rank, I.e. you're the 4th best and I'm the 5th, and after me the rest doesn't matter.

Let's say you have 220 students in your class. 5%x220=11. So 11 people are in top 5%. Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?
quote
Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...
Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...
quote
Mombastic
Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...


Yeah. And to be fair, as long as you fall within that percentage you should be fine. In the end that's what they are generally looking for.
[quote]Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...[/quote]

Yeah. And to be fair, as long as you fall within that percentage you should be fine. In the end that's what they are generally looking for.
quote
Ribben

Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?


Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.
[quote]
Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?[/quote]

Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.
quote
Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...


Yeah. And to be fair, as long as you fall within that percentage you should be fine. In the end that's what they are generally looking for.


Thanks for the response. I guess its just the damn waiting period that is making me question everything. I mean there are about 500 people aplying for the MJur, of whom about 90% should have a first (from what i have heard), which would mean that about 450 of the 500 applicants fall within the top 5%. The competition is just BRUTAL...
[quote][quote]Thanks for the interesting answers. In the end there is not anyting you can do about it...[/quote]

Yeah. And to be fair, as long as you fall within that percentage you should be fine. In the end that's what they are generally looking for. [/quote]

Thanks for the response. I guess its just the damn waiting period that is making me question everything. I mean there are about 500 people aplying for the MJur, of whom about 90% should have a first (from what i have heard), which would mean that about 450 of the 500 applicants fall within the top 5%. The competition is just BRUTAL...
quote
VisionMed
Well...

[Edited by VisionMed on Jul 12, 2018]

Well...
quote

Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?


Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.


In my view, Oxford is looking for people at the top of their respective universities (although in reality there are other factors, particularly for people who left their student lives behind many years ago). In your scenario, coming 4th out of 90 means that only 3 people were 'better than you'. Coming 49th out of 500 means that 48 people were 'better than you'. For a degree that sees applicants from hundreds of universities across many countries, I just feel intuitively that coming top in this sense is the best position to be in. Put it this way, if all people in the top 5% of the class with 90 students applied to Oxford, they could realistically all get offers. If, on the other hand, all people in the top 5% of the class with 500 students applied to Oxford, I don't think they would be in the position to allocate over 1/3 of their spaces to these students.


So, if I understood you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the top 5% classification is a better indicator of absolute top students in certain institutions if the class as a whole is smaller? Thanks for your explanation.

[Edited by TopPoteHexagon on Feb 28, 2018]

[quote][quote][quote]
Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?[/quote]

Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.[/quote]

In my view, Oxford is looking for people at the top of their respective universities (although in reality there are other factors, particularly for people who left their student lives behind many years ago). In your scenario, coming 4th out of 90 means that only 3 people were 'better than you'. Coming 49th out of 500 means that 48 people were 'better than you'. For a degree that sees applicants from hundreds of universities across many countries, I just feel intuitively that coming top in this sense is the best position to be in. Put it this way, if all people in the top 5% of the class with 90 students applied to Oxford, they could realistically all get offers. If, on the other hand, all people in the top 5% of the class with 500 students applied to Oxford, I don't think they would be in the position to allocate over 1/3 of their spaces to these students. [/quote]

So, if I understood you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the top 5% classification is a better indicator of absolute top students in certain institutions if the class as a whole is smaller? Thanks for your explanation.
quote


Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.


In my view, Oxford is looking for people at the top of their respective universities (although in reality there are other factors, particularly for people who left their student lives behind many years ago). In your scenario, coming 4th out of 90 means that only 3 people were 'better than you'. Coming 49th out of 500 means that 48 people were 'better than you'. For a degree that sees applicants from hundreds of universities across many countries, I just feel intuitively that coming top in this sense is the best position to be in. Put it this way, if all people in the top 5% of the class with 90 students applied to Oxford, they could realistically all get offers. If, on the other hand, all people in the top 5% of the class with 500 students applied to Oxford, I don't think they would be in the position to allocate over 1/3 of their spaces to these students.


So, if I understood you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the top 5% classification is a better indicator of absolute top students in certain institutions if the class as a whole is smaller? Thanks for your explanation.


I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...
[quote][quote][quote][quote]
Thanks for the explanation! So to be absolutely clear: The size of your class has no relation to the significance of being in the top 5%? Its just as good to be in the top 5% if you are in a big class as it is in a small class?[/quote]

Well say that you are in a class of 90 people, and you graduate top 5 percent. So let's say you're 4th out of 90. That means you leave 86 people behind you. However, if you are in a class of 500 people, and let's say you ranked 49th, this means you did better than 451 people on the same curriculum.

I mean it's all relative ofcourse but for me this looks a lot more impressive.[/quote]

In my view, Oxford is looking for people at the top of their respective universities (although in reality there are other factors, particularly for people who left their student lives behind many years ago). In your scenario, coming 4th out of 90 means that only 3 people were 'better than you'. Coming 49th out of 500 means that 48 people were 'better than you'. For a degree that sees applicants from hundreds of universities across many countries, I just feel intuitively that coming top in this sense is the best position to be in. Put it this way, if all people in the top 5% of the class with 90 students applied to Oxford, they could realistically all get offers. If, on the other hand, all people in the top 5% of the class with 500 students applied to Oxford, I don't think they would be in the position to allocate over 1/3 of their spaces to these students. [/quote]

So, if I understood you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the top 5% classification is a better indicator of absolute top students in certain institutions if the class as a whole is smaller? Thanks for your explanation.[/quote]

I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...
quote
VisionMed
Well...

[Edited by VisionMed on Jul 12, 2018]

Well...
quote
No, I was just giving my view because it is the opposite of Ribben's view. But both views are correct because we are just saying how we INSTINCTIVELY FEEL about it.


Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?
[quote]No, I was just giving my view because it is the opposite of Ribben's view. But both views are correct because we are just saying how we INSTINCTIVELY FEEL about it. [/quote]

Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?
quote
Ribben

I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...


Well yeah. It's the difference between being the best student in your home city, or being the best student in your province, region or state. In both cases you're at the top of the pyramid, but in the latter case you had to compete with many more people to get there.


Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?


I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.
[quote]
I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...[/quote]

Well yeah. It's the difference between being the best student in your home city, or being the best student in your province, region or state. In both cases you're at the top of the pyramid, but in the latter case you had to compete with many more people to get there.

[quote]
Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?[/quote]

I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.
quote
Ribben

I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.


On of my friends got accepted as well by the way, he was ranked somewhere around 50th out of 476, which put him just outside top 10. So again, he didn't meet the strict 5% or 10% criterion, but he still did better than over 400 students in his year.
[quote]
I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.[/quote]

On of my friends got accepted as well by the way, he was ranked somewhere around 50th out of 476, which put him just outside top 10. So again, he didn't meet the strict 5% or 10% criterion, but he still did better than over 400 students in his year.
quote

I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...


Well yeah. It's the difference between being the best student in your home city, or being the best student in your province, region or state. In both cases you're at the top of the pyramid, but in the latter case you had to compete with many more people to get there.


Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?


I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.


Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?
[quote][quote]
I think what OP meant was that it is much harder to get in the top 5 in larger class...[/quote]

Well yeah. It's the difference between being the best student in your home city, or being the best student in your province, region or state. In both cases you're at the top of the pyramid, but in the latter case you had to compete with many more people to get there.

[quote]
Since you have been excepted into cam. you must have a very high class ranking, right ?[/quote]

I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.[/quote]

Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?
quote

I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.


On of my friends got accepted as well by the way, he was ranked somewhere around 50th out of 476, which put him just outside top 10. So again, he didn't meet the strict 5% or 10% criterion, but he still did better than over 400 students in his year.


He must have an excellent CV and references.
[quote][quote]
I got accepted into Cam as well and I ranked 26th out of 476, which is in fact outside the top 5, but at the same time, I was better than 450 other students.[/quote]

On of my friends got accepted as well by the way, he was ranked somewhere around 50th out of 476, which put him just outside top 10. So again, he didn't meet the strict 5% or 10% criterion, but he still did better than over 400 students in his year. [/quote]

He must have an excellent CV and references.
quote
Ribben

He must have an excellent CV and references.


I think he does, probably most importantly he's doing a PHD research right now. I get the feeling that both Cam and Ox are specifically looking for academic profiles for their LLM/MJur programmes.

Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?


Unless I get a scolarship (have applied for one) it will probably be Cambridge, simply because it is so much cheaper than Oxford. Literally everything about studying in Oxford is more expensive, let alone the fact that the initial cost is like 6000 pounds more due to higher tuition fee and college fee.
[quote]
He must have an excellent CV and references.[/quote]

I think he does, probably most importantly he's doing a PHD research right now. I get the feeling that both Cam and Ox are specifically looking for academic profiles for their LLM/MJur programmes.

[quote] Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?[/quote]

Unless I get a scolarship (have applied for one) it will probably be Cambridge, simply because it is so much cheaper than Oxford. Literally everything about studying in Oxford is more expensive, let alone the fact that the initial cost is like 6000 pounds more due to higher tuition fee and college fee.



quote
Parlutti

He must have an excellent CV and references.


I think he does, probably most importantly he's doing a PHD research right now. I get the feeling that both Cam and Ox are specifically looking for academic profiles for their LLM/MJur programmes.

Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?


Unless I get a scolarship (have applied for one) it will probably be Cambridge, simply because it is so much cheaper than Oxford. Literally everything about studying in Oxford is more expensive, let alone the fact that the initial cost is like 6000 pounds more due to higher tuition fee and college fee.




Wow seing you and some of the other posters, I realize that I have no chance for the MJur. All that I have going for me is that I'm in the top 5% but thats ture for basically all the 500 applicants...

See a rejection comming (especially since Im still working on my masters and not a PHD student yet...)

[Edited by Parlutti on Feb 28, 2018]

[quote][quote]
He must have an excellent CV and references.[/quote]

I think he does, probably most importantly he's doing a PHD research right now. I get the feeling that both Cam and Ox are specifically looking for academic profiles for their LLM/MJur programmes.

[quote] Very impressive! You seem to be in a prime position for the BCL/Mjur as well. Have you already decided on cam. or oxon.?[/quote]

Unless I get a scolarship (have applied for one) it will probably be Cambridge, simply because it is so much cheaper than Oxford. Literally everything about studying in Oxford is more expensive, let alone the fact that the initial cost is like 6000 pounds more due to higher tuition fee and college fee.



[/quote]

Wow seing you and some of the other posters, I realize that I have no chance for the MJur. All that I have going for me is that I'm in the top 5% but thats ture for basically all the 500 applicants...

See a rejection comming (especially since Im still working on my masters and not a PHD student yet...)
quote
Ribben

Wow seing you and some of the other posters, I realize that I have no chance for the MJur. All that I have going for me is that I'm in the top 5% but thats ture for basically all the 500 applicants...
See a rejection comming


Come on, you don't know that. Let's get real here: it's not like anyone really knows what the exact criteria are Oxford uses to make its decisions. Even people who got admitted will never know, as they had to hand both a motivation letter, as well as a cv, but also submit references and hand in a short written piece. So who knows? Maybe your cv isn't that great but your written piece is phenomenal, or maybe you got excellent references who really made clear that it is you they should be accepting... et cetera.

It is all just pointless speculation, let's be honest :-) but it is fun to do while you're waiting, that's why we do it.
[quote]
Wow seing you and some of the other posters, I realize that I have no chance for the MJur. All that I have going for me is that I'm in the top 5% but thats ture for basically all the 500 applicants...
See a rejection comming[/quote]

Come on, you don't know that. Let's get real here: it's not like anyone really knows what the exact criteria are Oxford uses to make its decisions. Even people who got admitted will never know, as they had to hand both a motivation letter, as well as a cv, but also submit references and hand in a short written piece. So who knows? Maybe your cv isn't that great but your written piece is phenomenal, or maybe you got excellent references who really made clear that it is you they should be accepting... et cetera.

It is all just pointless speculation, let's be honest :-) but it is fun to do while you're waiting, that's why we do it.
quote
Mombastic
Sometimes the chances of getting there could be a matter of luck. I graduated in top 2% of my LLB in the UK and now (through the results I had) I have a full scholarship for the LLM which covers both living costs and tuition fees. The Postgrad is on the continent anyways. Apparently, Cambridge decided to reject me although I had legal work experience in the Government and other extracurricular activities combined with academic credentials. However, got an offer from LSE.

One of my friends applied to Cambridge and Essex (not for law). Essex rejected her. Guess where she went afterwards - Cambridge. So I would suggest to wait and not to get impatient. A rejection, which I hope none of you will have, is not the end of the world. As the French say: c'est la vie.

P.S.: The example with Essex might not be per se relevant for us, but you get the main point. Ciao :)

[Edited by Mombastic on Feb 28, 2018]

Sometimes the chances of getting there could be a matter of luck. I graduated in top 2% of my LLB in the UK and now (through the results I had) I have a full scholarship for the LLM which covers both living costs and tuition fees. The Postgrad is on the continent anyways. Apparently, Cambridge decided to reject me although I had legal work experience in the Government and other extracurricular activities combined with academic credentials. However, got an offer from LSE.

One of my friends applied to Cambridge and Essex (not for law). Essex rejected her. Guess where she went afterwards - Cambridge. So I would suggest to wait and not to get impatient. A rejection, which I hope none of you will have, is not the end of the world. As the French say: c'est la vie.

P.S.: The example with Essex might not be per se relevant for us, but you get the main point. Ciao :)
quote
Optimistic
Good debate guys. I am wondering which more important is to graduate from top university or to be from the top 5%?
Good debate guys. I am wondering which more important is to graduate from top university or to be from the top 5%?
quote
bclmjur
Good debate guys. I am wondering which more important is to graduate from top university or to be from the top 5%?


I think the general view is that most BCL/MJur students graduated in the top 5% of their cohort with some graduating out of that if they, for example, studied their undergrad at Cambridge. I also think that generally Cambridge admits students within the top 10%. Cambridge's website refers to top 10%: http://www.llm.law.cam.ac.uk/admissions/admissions-criteria.html

[Edited by bclmjur on Feb 28, 2018]

[quote]Good debate guys. I am wondering which more important is to graduate from top university or to be from the top 5%?[/quote]

I think the general view is that most BCL/MJur students graduated in the top 5% of their cohort with some graduating out of that if they, for example, studied their undergrad at Cambridge. I also think that generally Cambridge admits students within the top 10%. Cambridge's website refers to top 10%: http://www.llm.law.cam.ac.uk/admissions/admissions-criteria.html
quote

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