I am not bitter in my comments. I was merely stating the stark reality. Sorry if you don't fit in. No offence meant. Ask anyone. An applicant from the top or best law schools in their respective countries stand a better chance of being considered and admitted all things being equal. Everyone knows this. By the same token, certain Solicitors' firms ( magic circle ones ) in London specify the law schools that you must graduate from as a prerequisite for applying for training contracts. Potential do not always help. An applicant may have enormous potential but if he or she has lousy "A" level grades, do you think the top 10 law schools in UK will even look at him or her. I guess not.

Everybody knows that those who attend Eton or Gordonston in UK stand a 'better' chance of getting into Oxbridge. Note I say a 'better' chance.

Can anyone tell me if any one from a lousy or low ranking ( say top 10 from the bottom of the ranking ) or lesser known university law school has in the past been admitted to Oxford to read the Oxford BCL? Just curious.

I am not running down emanuel here. I really do hope that he will make it to the Oxford MLF. Best of luck to him. I comment him for his perseverance. Most in his position would have given up any hope of entering Oxford.

Why Oxford? Why not Cambridge? just curious..

I am not bitter in my comments. I was merely stating the stark reality. Sorry if you don't fit in. No offence meant. Ask anyone. An applicant from the top or best law schools in their respective countries stand a better chance of being considered and admitted all things being equal. Everyone knows this. By the same token, certain Solicitors' firms ( magic circle ones ) in London specify the law schools that you must graduate from as a prerequisite for applying for training contracts. Potential do not always help. An applicant may have enormous potential but if he or she has lousy "A" level grades, do you think the top 10 law schools in UK will even look at him or her. I guess not.

Everybody knows that those who attend Eton or Gordonston in UK stand a 'better' chance of getting into Oxbridge. Note I say a 'better' chance.

Can anyone tell me if any one from a lousy or low ranking ( say top 10 from the bottom of the ranking ) or lesser known university law school has in the past been admitted to Oxford to read the Oxford BCL? Just curious.

I am not running down emanuel here. I really do hope that he will make it to the Oxford MLF. Best of luck to him. I comment him for his perseverance. Most in his position would have given up any hope of entering Oxford.

Why Oxford? Why not Cambridge? just curious..

From your background, I can see that you have done very well indeed. I commend you for that.

No. I am not bitter at all. Life is fair. Fair competition. Everyone and anyone can apply to Oxford. May the best person gets in. That's all.

Best of luck to you.

From your background, I can see that you have done very well indeed. I commend you for that.

No. I am not bitter at all. Life is fair. Fair competition. Everyone and anyone can apply to Oxford. May the best person gets in. That's all.

Best of luck to you.

I have not applied for the Oxford MLF yet. From what I can observe from the 2010/2011 thread, almost all the aspiring applicants who applied expressed frustration and disappointment. I think it is not going to get any better for the coming years starting 2011/2012 2nd intake. Why do I say this: look up the commentary at: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4e1a4df6-f17b-11df-8609-00144feab49a,dwp-
I reproduce the following excerpt verbatim:

" Among all our postgraduate courses at Oxford, the combined master's degree in law and finance attracts among the highest number of applicants per place", says John Armour, Lowells Professor of Law and Finance.

So you see: The Oxford MLF even eclipse the Oxford BCL/MJur.

The higher the number of applicants, the less is the chance of getting an offer. Unless of course your credentials are top notched next to extraordinary. Remember: applications are open to the world. You will be competing with the best of the best from around the world.

Everything being equal, unless one graduates from a top notched Law School, chances are one may only make the wait list.

For me, I obtained my LL.M from the University of London. And my LL.B is not from a top notched Law School. I doubt if I will make the wait list.

With your credentials, it is perhaps more practical to apply to the best and most prestigious law school in Brazil for your PhD instead of being transfixed on Oxford. You already had your chance in 2010/2011. Just my views. No harm in applying though both to Oxford and this law school in Brazil.

Out of curiosity, which University Law School in Brazil is perceived to be the best and most prestigious in Brazil? That is , the No.1 law school in Brazil.

Lawmann,

international rankings say the best University of Brazil is USP (Universidade de São Paulo), which is a world-class University, if we consider those we mentioned as such. Notice that I am talking about the Shangai Ranking. I know nothing of an international Law School ranking that considers Brazilan Law Schools.
Even in Brazil, the supremacy of USP is not undisputed. Others have better qualifications before the Ministry of Education and at Bar exams. Pontifícia Universidade Católica (PUC) is also a GREAT Law School, as well as FGV (Fundação Getúlio Vargas). Those have international reputation and many agreements with foreign institutions (top notched, as you like to say).
I had two offers to pursue a doctorate in Civil Law at Universidad de Buenos Aires, which IS a GREAT University in the field of Law, specially when you consider its PhD staff to be made up by international judges, former ministries, etc.
I am full aware of what Mr. Armour said. One of the reasons to studying at Orxford is to study with him. But notice that Oxford also mentioned that there are only 30 places and only 20 were wait listed. It means something.
If I am not admitted this year, I will pursue a doctorate there or at PUC or at USP. It is even possible to do two in a roll, because of the schedule of classes. I might do so. But applications in Brazil are WAY SO DIFFERENT in the rest of the world.... You have to have some relationshp with a Professor of the PhD, n order to him patronize you, because you only accepted if your ressearch proposal is of interest of on of them, and if they have available vaccancies to accept students. Not necessarily being extraordinary, but being well relationed. I conquered some means to that approach, but I refuse to use them, on ethical beliefs.
Lawmann, if your LLB was not a golden one, make all other stuff around you become gold. Surely what you did a long time ago is considered, but I really think they consider more what you did recently and what you are doing now. For instance, last year I met an African here that was admitted at NYU. He is from Nigeria. I pretty much doubt any Law School there to be known as world-class or something. NYU is hard to get in too, but he managed to, with full scholarship.
About having my chance already, it is a petty view. It was the first time I applied to UK, and did it without help. In Brazil, LLB and LLM admittance is achieved by public contests. It is so different, that I think I misssed many steps there. One, for instance, was that I sent a resume with more than 8 pages, while the Committee says it must be limited to two pages. According to them, the evaluators might not read more than two pages. All the relevant data where in the middle. This year, I corrected that. Just an example.
I expect, Lawmann, to be admitted. If so, I will buy you a scotch there in London, so we can cheer it!
Regards

I see you had your plans all carefully thought out if Oxford were to reject you this time around. Good move. You will go far.

As for me, my LL.B is backed up by 4 LL.Ms from UK law schools, one of which is from the University of London. Plus my Bar ( Lincoln's Inn ) in England & Wales, I have 6 law degrees in total.

I don't think Oxford put you on the wait list simply because your resume was 8 pages long. That would be too petty, isn't it?. If they take issue with that, you would have got a rejection instead.

No, Lawmann, I am saying it was an example of how badly I filled my application. I made MANY mistakes, many, many, many, regarding it. That was JUST an example of how I badly did it. And it was a minor mistake. I do not consider this to be the cause of my waiting list. It seems you distort what I wrote (and it is not the first time you miss the point of what I wrote)...

Let me see this through. You have 4 LLM degrees, and you do not think you are Oxford material???? Why? Really, why?

I do not have plans. I will see what comes and take the best of it. But there are options in the table, as I think you have them too.

Don't you think we are monopolizing this thread, preventing other people to discuss more relevant stuff than my future? We can continue this on private messages, so we don't become hated (or more) here. Your next message, I will only answer that way.

And please, do not take words out of context.

Are you kidding me?

emanuelpessoa - ""For instance, last year I met an African here that was admitted at NYU. He is from Nigeria. I pretty much doubt any Law School there to be known as world-class or something. NYU is hard to get in too, but he managed to, with full scholarship.""

lawmann - "As for me, my LL.B is backed up by 4 LL.Ms from UK law schools, one of which is from the University of London. Plus my Bar ( Lincoln's Inn ) in England & Wales, I have 6 law degrees in total."


Thanks for the laugh!

SIX law degrees?!?!

SIX law degrees?!?!

SIX law degrees?!?!

I am REALLY anxious for Lawmann answer. :-)

Lisa, about te guy who entered NYU, he uses the nickname Awojc. See this thread: http://www.llm-guide.com/board/81623

You can contact him and check what I said. I do not know why you laugh on me telling he got an offer.

I am also most intrigued about these four LLMs!

I have known people to have two LLMs, or two LLMs and an MA/MSc, but four LLMs! Lawmann might actually be the only person in the world to have four LLMs :)

On a serious note, having many LLMs is unlikely to help. Many UK law schools will not accept someone on an LLM programme who already has an LLM, and many admissions will just view it as 'degree collecting'.

Nonetheless, always apply (it usually costs nothing).

I am also most intrigued about these four LLMs!

I have known people to have two LLMs, or two LLMs and an MA/MSc, but four LLMs! Lawmann might actually be the only person in the world to have four LLMs :)

On a serious note, having many LLMs is unlikely to help. Many UK law schools will not accept someone on an LLM programme who already has an LLM, and many admissions will just view it as 'degree collecting'.

Nonetheless, always apply (it usually costs nothing).

You missed the point. I have not applied .

LL.B
LL.M - General - University of London
LL.M - Law and Employment Relations
LL.M - Family Law
LL.M - Commercial Law ( commendation)
Barrister at law ( Linclon's Inn )
Total: 6

Hey, Queem Mary, University of London offers 19 different types of LL.Ms not including the distance learning LL.Ms and diplomas.
I believe the yearly intake is a whopping 500.

I only collected 4, and only one from the University of London.

Lawmann, hasn't that added up to a lot of expense for you?

No. I obtained my 1st LL.M from the University of London as an external student in 1991 at a cost of just under pounds sterling 800.00. Obviously the standard in those days was high going by only 16 passes of the LL.M in the world by external study. Only 3 passes in UK as a whole. 5 in Singapore. 4 in Hong Kong. And 3 in West Malaysia plus 1 in East Malaysia . Unlike nowadays, the 4 modules for the LL.M in 1009 have to be passed in one sitting . No carry forward.

I can assure you that having multiple LL.Ms can be very profitable in private legal practice. Small price to pay. The financial rewards are enormous.

Lawmann,

I could not help notice that you wield a lot of knowledge regarding admission procedures. For instance, http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8323

Care to say if you are involved with professorship anywhere nowadays? And would you mind disclosing your email account to us, as you did in that thread?

By the way, why have not you applied to Oxford? And why you considered the Cambridge LLM easy to get in in the aforementioned thread?

Regards,

Emanuel

No, Emanuel. I am not a professor. I lecture part time at a local University. I am a legal practitioner.

My email account is disclosed in the previous thread. it is still valid for communication if you want.

In the 1980s, it was easy to be admitted to the Cambridge LL.M. I am told applicants with 2:1 or even 2:2 LL.B degrees were admitted to the Cambridge LL.M. Since then , Cambridge now requires a 1st class LL.B as a pre-requisite for entry to its LL.M.

Compared to the Oxford MLF, if you have a 1st class LL.B or equivalent from a good or well known ( top notched ) Law School, the likelihood of being admitted to the Cambridge LL.M is far more promising than getting an offer for the Oxford MLF with only 30 seats.

For eg , only one ( 1 ) applicant from "Central and Latin America ( Brazil included) " will be offered a place for the Oxford MLF. The admission rate for this region is only 3% of the 30 seats up for grab [ per the statistics for the 2010/2011 cohort based on the MLF website ].

Everything being equal, without a quality LL.B from a top notched or well known law school , applying for the MLF is , in my view, a waste of time and effort.

What has Oxford to gain by offering seats in the MLF to LL.B graduates from unknown or lesser known or other law schools whose ranking are scrapping the bottom of the barrel? Nothing. Not even a 1st class will help.