Hi all,

I have been admitted to both UCL and Leiden University and am now trying to pick between the two.
UCL offers a specialist LLM in Public International Law with the student being able to pick what modules he/she wishes to take up to the value of 180 credits. For Leiden, I have been admitted to the regular LLM in PIL and the structure of that course appears to be more rigid, with only one or two optional modules.

I can't decide between the two. I know UCL is ranked in the top 5 universities in the world (where as Leiden is around 60-ish), but Leiden also has a campus in the Peace Palace at Den Haag at students have access to all the conferences, libraries and proceedings that take place there.

Any feedback/opinions/views on either programme would be greatly appreciated!

Im doing my LLM in Public Int. Law at UCL so of course i think UCL is excellent. My experience so far has been outstanding and was everything and more i was hoping for.

However i have a friend studying in Leiden and she seems very happy as well about doing her LLM there.

UCL is better ranked yes but also consider that London is a more complicated city than Leiden which is more calm and relaxed,,i guess you should take into consideration if you really care about rankings or if you want to be in a little but more relaxed environment,,,! both decisions would be good i think,,,LLM are not only about the uni we choose but about what we choose to obtain from the llm,,at the end what we do as students is way more important than the uni itself,,at least thats what ive always thought! good luck :)

Hi,

I'm currently doing the LLM in Leiden and here are some of the pros and cons that I've experienced:

Pros:
* Costs - the fee for Leiden is around 1620 which is substantially less than UCL, I'd imagine.
* The proximity to the Hague - we had a class trip to the ICC and sat in on the SCSL Charles Taylor trial. We also got to sit in on the Kosovo hearings and the University has guest speakers all the time. Also, you can use the Peace Palace library.
* Internships: There is an informal internship programme here where the top 20 students get endorsed for internships in the ICTY, ICC, ICTR, PCA and some international organizations. I know the website says only a minimum will be selected, but if you get into the top 20, you are basically guaranteed the internship.
* Mooting: Leiden takes part in the Jessup, Telders, ICC and Humanitarian Law moot courts.
* Leiden: The city is really, really beautiful!
* Staff: I can't praise the lecturers here enough. They are young, enthusiastic and extremely approachable.

Cons:
* Lack of choice within the course: Some modules are quite dull such as International Organizations and Dispute Settlement. Topics such as economic law, environmental law, refugee law etc. are only briefly touched upon during the 'Introduction to Public International Law' course. The LLM is really general, which might be good if you don't know where you want to specialize. There is a particular lack of focus on Human Rights, with only one module entitled 'Theoretical Perspectives on Human Rights,'
* Accommodation - unless you get into student residences, accommodation is really difficult to find. Both student and private accommodation is expensive
* Social life- if this is important to you, Leiden is a very quiet city with no nightclubs (which can be a very good thing when you're doing an LLM!) Amsterdam and the Hague are right on your doorstep though
* Even though part of the campus is in the Hague, it is more of an annoyance than anything else having to commute there
* Another thing to bear in mind is that some exams are oral. This might seem a bit daunting but the class average in oral exams is actually higher than written exams.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for all your help and input guys.

Well i've decided to go for UCL, sent off the acceptance of admission letter to them yesterday, accepting their conditional offer.

My decision was influenced by a number of factors. Firstly, the LLM at Leiden doesn't offer the law governing warfare/international humanitarian law as an option to their regular students, only advanced students, whereas at UCL its available for selection. Although at Leiden i'm sure I would've been able to sit in on the module for advanced students, I figured that seeing as this is the field I want to go into, it would probably be better to learn the topic to a good depth through personal and taught methods.

Secondly, given the structure of the course at Leiden, it didn't seem as if the modules would be covered in very much depth (with there being three modules in the first semester and another three in the second). The structure at UCL, on the other hand, permits the in depth learning of modules throughout the whole of the LLM (as you only pick three modules which run throughout the two semesters).

Thirdly, the most appealing part of the program at Leiden was its proximity to the Hague and all of the opportunities to conduct internships at the various institutions. However, this can still be done after completion of the LLM at UCL.

So, now all I have to do is graduate with a minimum 2:1! Anyways, thank you all once again for all your help and good luck with your studies!

you are right about tha,,you can also do that while at UCL. Im going by the end of this month to The Hague with a group of classmates as part of one of my courses and we are going to visit the int. criminal court, int, court of arbitration among others. I always receive on my email opportunities about internships and job at different organizations in The Hague so dont worry about that at all,,,there are plently of opportunities!