Is it true that Cambridge nominates almost thrice the number of candidates for the number of scholarships available?
CAMBRIDGE COMMONWEALTH SHARED SCHOLARSHIP SCHEME
Posted May 08, 2014 06:59
Posted May 08, 2014 07:59
Is it true that Cambridge nominates almost thrice the number of candidates for the number of scholarships available?
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.
Posted May 08, 2014 08:05
Is it true that Cambridge nominates almost thrice the number of candidates for the number of scholarships available?
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.
Can you please give me the link to the same? I can't somehow find it. Thank you in advance.
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.</blockquote>
Can you please give me the link to the same? I can't somehow find it. Thank you in advance.
Posted May 08, 2014 08:06
Is it true that Cambridge nominates almost thrice the number of candidates for the number of scholarships available?
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.
Can you please give me the link to the same? I can't somehow find it. Thank you in advance.
As in I can't somehow find this information on the CSC website. Thank you
That is what is indicated on the CSC website.</blockquote>
Can you please give me the link to the same? I can't somehow find it. Thank you in advance.</blockquote>
As in I can't somehow find this information on the CSC website. Thank you
Posted May 08, 2014 08:46
lol damn...thrice? *Facepalm* an even more rigorous selection process....
Posted May 08, 2014 11:31
lol damn...thrice? *Facepalm* an even more rigorous selection process....
Q&A section on filling in the EAS!
Q&A section on filling in the EAS!
Posted May 08, 2014 11:33
lol damn...thrice? *Facepalm* an even more rigorous selection process....
Q&A section on filling in the EAS!
Q&A section on filling in the EAS!</blockquote>
Posted May 09, 2014 08:50
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
Posted May 13, 2014 10:26
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
Posted May 13, 2014 11:19
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!</blockquote>
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."
Posted May 13, 2014 11:36
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!</blockquote>
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."</blockquote>
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.
Posted May 13, 2014 12:02
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.
Thank you for the elaborate information Optimisticgirl. I was just sharing what had been posted on the other forum. All we can do is wait for that email from Mrs. Butler :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!</blockquote>
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."</blockquote>
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.</blockquote>
Thank you for the elaborate information Optimisticgirl. I was just sharing what had been posted on the other forum. All we can do is wait for that email from Mrs. Butler :)
Posted May 13, 2014 13:27
Hi everybody! My application is still with the University of Cambridge and has been since 25th April (Ref: EAS). I just sent an email to Mrs Carmen Butler. Will share her reply, if I get one. :)
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.
Thank you for the elaborate information Optimisticgirl. I was just sharing what had been posted on the other forum. All we can do is wait for that email from Mrs. Butler :)
Yes, and i know the wait is painful but we have to wait nevertheless!
I also sent her an email and she simply told me that there are many applications to look at. Confirms my belief that there must be too many nominations for the few available slots!</blockquote>
Someone who received this scholarship posted this on the The Student Room forum (although my status still says the application is 'with the University', so I'm not half convinced that I have been nominated especially when many people have their status as 'CSC') :
"Don't worry, if you have been nominated you are going to get it. May be under extreme circumstances they dont give them."
"Sometime they send it in June 1st week and sometime it can take upto mid July as well. Often it is the International Office of the University which will send you the final award letter. So you will have to be little patient. Though I know it's very hard to be so. My own experience. International Office will also guide you on CAS thing which will be required for you student Tier 4 Visa.
After that, CSC office will send you a medical form by email which you will have get signed by a Doctor and send them back. Next you will get the the main AWARD LETTER from CSC couriered to your registered address.
This Award Letter will be the main document to state your financial guarantee from CSC and thus need to be submitted with Visa application in place of Bank statements.
Plane tickets will be arranged by the International Office as well."</blockquote>
CambridegLLM, you may want to know that the shared scholarship process is different depending on the university. Further, if you go to your EAS and look under the agency input, you will see that Sue Osterfield, the Deputy Director of the Cambridge Trusts signed as a nominator and stated that you were being nominated for the scholarship and that they are convinced with your country benefit input.
Below is an excerpt from an email i got in MARCH, from the CSC.
"The Cambridge Trust will contact applicants who are eligible to be considered for the Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship and invite them to complete the EAS online application (which links directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission) by the deadline of 16.4.2014. After this deadline has passed, the Cambridge Trust assess the applications and contact the 10 applicants who will be offered a Cambridge Commonwealth Shared Scholarship by early May, they will be sent an Acceptance Form, Data Processing Form and a Medical Form which is to be completed by a Doctor. When these forms have been completed and returned to the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission (provided that the information is satisfactory) the 10 applicants will then receive an offer letter from both the Cambridge Trust and the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, these offers are normally made by the end of June. There will be a Reserve List just-in-case someone turns down the offer of a scholarship or does not pass their medical."
In another email, this is what Ms Carmen wrote
"ou were invited to complete the EAS online application directly with the Commonwealth Scholarship Commission to register your interest in being considered for that scholarship. There are only 10 Commonwealth Shared Scholarships available for Cambridge and there are many applications to consider. As soon as it is known which applicants will be awarded a Commonwealth Shared Scholarship, you will be notified by email."
I dont know what to make of this, but that is what i was told.</blockquote>
Thank you for the elaborate information Optimisticgirl. I was just sharing what had been posted on the other forum. All we can do is wait for that email from Mrs. Butler :)</blockquote>
Yes, and i know the wait is painful but we have to wait nevertheless!
Posted May 13, 2014 13:39
On a separate note Optimisticgirl, what do you think the application being on 'CSC' or 'Commonwealth Scholarships Commission' status means? I haven't seen many people on this forum (apart from 2(?)) who said their status had changed to 'CSC'.
Posted May 13, 2014 14:21
On a separate note Optimisticgirl, what do you think the application being on 'CSC' or 'Commonwealth Scholarships Commission' status means? I haven't seen many people on this forum (apart from 2(?)) who said their status had changed to 'CSC'.
I think it means that the CSC has reviewed it. However i dont think it has anything to do with whether or not the application has satisfied the CSC. I know one other person whose application is also stuck with univ. That makes us 3 now. Plus the two people whose is at CSC makes it 5 nominated persons on this forum!
I think it means that the CSC has reviewed it. However i dont think it has anything to do with whether or not the application has satisfied the CSC. I know one other person whose application is also stuck with univ. That makes us 3 now. Plus the two people whose is at CSC makes it 5 nominated persons on this forum!
Posted May 13, 2014 16:54
So guys i have bad news.
I wrote to the EAS Team using the email provided under the "contact us" section of the EAS Portal after you log in.
I asked them why my application is still with Cambridge and not the CSC and this was their reply:
"It means that you are one of Cambridges reserve candidates for nomination to CSC."
So there you have it! We are reserve candidates if your application is not with the CSC!
I wrote to the EAS Team using the email provided under the "contact us" section of the EAS Portal after you log in.
I asked them why my application is still with Cambridge and not the CSC and this was their reply:
"It means that you are one of Cambridges reserve candidates for nomination to CSC."
So there you have it! We are reserve candidates if your application is not with the CSC!
Posted May 13, 2014 16:57
So guys i have bad news.
I wrote to the EAS Team using the email provided under the "contact us" section of the EAS Portal after you log in.
I asked them why my application is still with Cambridge and not the CSC and this was their reply:
"It means that you are one of Cambridges reserve candidates for nomination to CSC."
So there you have it! We are reserve candidates if your application is not with the CSC!
Which means I guessed it right Optimisticgirl. There was definitely this hidden meaning with our status still being with the University. Thats why I was not half convinced that I was nominated.
I wrote to the EAS Team using the email provided under the "contact us" section of the EAS Portal after you log in.
I asked them why my application is still with Cambridge and not the CSC and this was their reply:
"It means that you are one of Cambridges reserve candidates for nomination to CSC."
So there you have it! We are reserve candidates if your application is not with the CSC!</blockquote>
Which means I guessed it right Optimisticgirl. There was definitely this hidden meaning with our status still being with the University. Thats why I was not half convinced that I was nominated.
Posted May 13, 2014 17:00
Well, it looks like you were right on this one.
The only reason why i remained optimistic is because a friend of mine who is a current scholar went through the same i.e. his status remained with university but he got in nevertheless!
Anyway, guess this is the end of my Cambridge dream!
The only reason why i remained optimistic is because a friend of mine who is a current scholar went through the same i.e. his status remained with university but he got in nevertheless!
Anyway, guess this is the end of my Cambridge dream!
Posted May 13, 2014 17:04
Well, it looks like you were right on this one.
The only reason why i remained optimistic is because a friend of mine who is a current scholar went through the same i.e. his status remained with university but he got in nevertheless!
Anyway, guess this is the end of my Cambridge dream!
Lets still be optimistic. We are on 'reserve', haven't been 'rejected'. Like your friend had his/her luck last year, we might fancy our chances too.
The only reason why i remained optimistic is because a friend of mine who is a current scholar went through the same i.e. his status remained with university but he got in nevertheless!
Anyway, guess this is the end of my Cambridge dream!</blockquote>
Lets still be optimistic. We are on 'reserve', haven't been 'rejected'. Like your friend had his/her luck last year, we might fancy our chances too.
Posted May 13, 2014 17:29
Well, i have pretty much given up.
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