Cambridge application 2018/2019


LLM2238

There exists a high minimum academic requirement for Cambridge LLM applicants. It applies equally to Cambridge Undergraduate students as well as law students from other schools. If the LLM were in fact less competitive than the undergraduate course the entire Cambridge undergraduate cohort would gain automatic admission to the Cambridge LLM regardless of their grades. That is not the case, though.

I think it's at least plausible to suggest that the calibre of the average Cambridge LLM applicant is of higher quality than the average Cambridge undergraduate applicant. This is because LLM applicants, assuming most of those applying do have first class grades, are proven to be adept at legal reasoning, writing and handling education at a tertiary level more generally. Numbers alone cannot account for this difference in quality. (Of course, you can point out that grading methods vary among universities and those applying might hold grades more inflated than Cambridge undergraduate students', but I don't think these applicants are in the majority)


To be honest I still think that the LLM is not as competitive as they make out to be, but I assume that is because I have had personal experiences that tell me so. For example, both me and my colleague got into the LLM programme, although neither of us had a first. My colleague was even quite far away from it. Meanwhile the best student in my class in high school got into the final round for admission into Cambridge's undergrad program in law, but was ultimately not selected, even though his grades were ridiculously high (a minimum of 90% average on all his courses, mind you in my country our curriculum constists out of 12 courses, so that means he scored equally well on maths as on French or sports, crazy). He ultimately chose not to study law and went for a degree in civil engineering, and is still way more talented than I am.

I mean, by all means, let's pat ourselves on the back that we made it into Cambridge, but all I am saying is that we should keep our heads level and realize that this is just an LLM program.


I don’t think the academic rigour of a high school curriculum can be compared to a university’s, but ok


I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.
[quote][quote][quote]
There exists a high minimum academic requirement for Cambridge LLM applicants. It applies equally to Cambridge Undergraduate students as well as law students from other schools. If the LLM were in fact less competitive than the undergraduate course the entire Cambridge undergraduate cohort would gain automatic admission to the Cambridge LLM regardless of their grades. That is not the case, though.

I think it's at least plausible to suggest that the calibre of the average Cambridge LLM applicant is of higher quality than the average Cambridge undergraduate applicant. This is because LLM applicants, assuming most of those applying do have first class grades, are proven to be adept at legal reasoning, writing and handling education at a tertiary level more generally. Numbers alone cannot account for this difference in quality. (Of course, you can point out that grading methods vary among universities and those applying might hold grades more inflated than Cambridge undergraduate students', but I don't think these applicants are in the majority)
[/quote]

To be honest I still think that the LLM is not as competitive as they make out to be, but I assume that is because I have had personal experiences that tell me so. For example, both me and my colleague got into the LLM programme, although neither of us had a first. My colleague was even quite far away from it. Meanwhile the best student in my class in high school got into the final round for admission into Cambridge's undergrad program in law, but was ultimately not selected, even though his grades were ridiculously high (a minimum of 90% average on all his courses, mind you in my country our curriculum constists out of 12 courses, so that means he scored equally well on maths as on French or sports, crazy). He ultimately chose not to study law and went for a degree in civil engineering, and is still way more talented than I am.

I mean, by all means, let's pat ourselves on the back that we made it into Cambridge, but all I am saying is that we should keep our heads level and realize that this is just an LLM program.[/quote]

I don’t think the academic rigour of a high school curriculum can be compared to a university’s, but ok [/quote]

I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.
quote
tsangc4

I don’t think the academic rigour of a high school curriculum can be compared to a university’s, but ok


I made that point to illustrate how someone with much more potential than me didn't get into Cambridge and I did, because I think the LLM admission standards are lower and take other factors into account (for example academic potential etc).


I’d respond but I find it pointless at this point... good luck at Cambridge!
[quote][quote]
I don’t think the academic rigour of a high school curriculum can be compared to a university’s, but ok [/quote]

I made that point to illustrate how someone with much more potential than me didn't get into Cambridge and I did, because I think the LLM admission standards are lower and take other factors into account (for example academic potential etc). [/quote]

I’d respond but I find it pointless at this point... good luck at Cambridge!
quote
Ribben

I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.


Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.
[quote]
I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.[/quote]

Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.
quote
Ribben


I’d respond but I find it pointless at this point... good luck at Cambridge!


Thank you, you too!
[quote]

I’d respond but I find it pointless at this point... good luck at Cambridge![/quote]

Thank you, you too!
quote
SwissGuy

I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.


Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.


To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?
[quote][quote]
I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.[/quote]

Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.[/quote]

To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?
quote
Ribben

To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?


Well looking at me and my colleague, we are both a PhD student at a top 50 global university. Also we each have around 10 publications to our name already.

I am kind of surprised this information is a thing here, because I always heard from fellow countrymen who went to Cambridge that they were actively scouting academic profiles for the LLM program. Heard the same for Oxford by the way.
[quote]
To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?[/quote]

Well looking at me and my colleague, we are both a PhD student at a top 50 global university. Also we each have around 10 publications to our name already.

I am kind of surprised this information is a thing here, because I always heard from fellow countrymen who went to Cambridge that they were actively scouting academic profiles for the LLM program. Heard the same for Oxford by the way.
quote
LLM2238

I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.


Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.


Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from!
[quote][quote]
I agree, and also I’d very interested to know why they’re accepting people with 2:1’s, if what Ribben is saying is true, when I know people who Cambridge have rejected with firsts, eg someone who has a first and did a training contract at a magic circle firm... my understanding is if you do not have a first you will not be admitted. I feel a freedom of information request coming on to find out if this is true.[/quote]

Because, I repeat, Cambridge LLM's admission standards are lower than the undergrad program (where nearly everyone has perfect high school scores). Also they take into account completely different things. In my experience (and I know around 5 people from my country who did the LLM) if you have a strong academic profile they will be very likely to grant you admission, even if you only have a 2:1.[/quote]

Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from!
quote
SwissGuy

To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?


Well looking at me and my colleague, we are both a PhD student at a top 50 global university. Also we each have around 10 publications to our name already.

I am kind of surprised this information is a thing here, because I always heard from fellow countrymen who went to Cambridge that they were actively scouting academic profiles for the LLM program. Heard the same for Oxford by the way.


Interesting. Thx for the info. Always hard to know what role publications play in such an application...
[quote][quote]
To piggyback on the question: What would a strong academic profile that "only" features a 2.1 look like?[/quote]

Well looking at me and my colleague, we are both a PhD student at a top 50 global university. Also we each have around 10 publications to our name already.

I am kind of surprised this information is a thing here, because I always heard from fellow countrymen who went to Cambridge that they were actively scouting academic profiles for the LLM program. Heard the same for Oxford by the way.[/quote]

Interesting. Thx for the info. Always hard to know what role publications play in such an application...
quote
Ribben

Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from!


Well the way I look at it, is that Cambridge wants above all to educate people who they expect will be leaders in their field, because that will further add to the prestige of the LLM degree and the university in general.

So in my experience I find that they look for people with academic profiles, and thus the potential of becoming professors or leading experts in a certain field, and prefer those above people whose career goal is to become a practising lawyer in one or the other firm.

But ofcourse you can also look at it in another way. In my year we graduated with around 500 students and yet only around 20 to 30 new PhD's start every year. For my PhD position I had to compete with 10 others. So the fact that someone is already enrolled in a PhD program, is sort of a pre-selection done by another university that shows that in your year or country you already have one of the best academic potentials.
[quote]
Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from![/quote]

Well the way I look at it, is that Cambridge wants above all to educate people who they expect will be leaders in their field, because that will further add to the prestige of the LLM degree and the university in general.

So in my experience I find that they look for people with academic profiles, and thus the potential of becoming professors or leading experts in a certain field, and prefer those above people whose career goal is to become a practising lawyer in one or the other firm.

But ofcourse you can also look at it in another way. In my year we graduated with around 500 students and yet only around 20 to 30 new PhD's start every year. For my PhD position I had to compete with 10 others. So the fact that someone is already enrolled in a PhD program, is sort of a pre-selection done by another university that shows that in your year or country you already have one of the best academic potentials.


quote
Ribben

Interesting. Thx for the info. Always hard to know what role publications play in such an application...


True, but the main point I am trying to make here (nothwithstanding people acting in a condescending manner towards me for making it) is that a first is neither necessary nor enough to get into Cambridge. Unlike in the undergraduate program, where the vast majority has triple A's et cetera.
[quote]
Interesting. Thx for the info. Always hard to know what role publications play in such an application...[/quote]

True, but the main point I am trying to make here (nothwithstanding people acting in a condescending manner towards me for making it) is that a first is neither necessary nor enough to get into Cambridge. Unlike in the undergraduate program, where the vast majority has triple A's et cetera.
quote
LLM2238

Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from!


Well the way I look at it, is that Cambridge wants above all to educate people who they expect will be leaders in their field, because that will further add to the prestige of the LLM degree and the university in general.

So in my experience I find that they look for people with academic profiles, and thus the potential of becoming professors or leading experts in a certain field, and prefer those above people whose career goal is to become a practising lawyer in one or the other firm.

But ofcourse you can also look at it in another way. In my year we graduated with around 500 students and yet only around 20 to 30 new PhD's start every year. For my PhD position I had to compete with 10 others. So the fact that someone is already enrolled in a PhD program, is sort of a pre-selection done by another university that shows that in your year or country you already have one of the best academic potentials.


Hmm, this seems pretty inconsistent with what you’ve been saying. Seems like this is a trolling account simply to goad. So fair play, good luck at Cambridge, if you do indeed have an offer....
[quote][quote]
Well it seems like you’re saying, or at least implying, that they’re willing to not enforce the academic requirement of a first for those outside the UK - is that a fair assumption to make? If so, that’s obviously and fundamentally unfair. As a British person and know people who are also British, who are very academic with firsts in law, but have been rejected, Id like to know why this is happening, if true. They cannot have academic requirements and not enforce them, regardless of the country the applicant is from![/quote]

Well the way I look at it, is that Cambridge wants above all to educate people who they expect will be leaders in their field, because that will further add to the prestige of the LLM degree and the university in general.

So in my experience I find that they look for people with academic profiles, and thus the potential of becoming professors or leading experts in a certain field, and prefer those above people whose career goal is to become a practising lawyer in one or the other firm.

But ofcourse you can also look at it in another way. In my year we graduated with around 500 students and yet only around 20 to 30 new PhD's start every year. For my PhD position I had to compete with 10 others. So the fact that someone is already enrolled in a PhD program, is sort of a pre-selection done by another university that shows that in your year or country you already have one of the best academic potentials.
[/quote]

Hmm, this seems pretty inconsistent with what you’ve been saying. Seems like this is a trolling account simply to goad. So fair play, good luck at Cambridge, if you do indeed have an offer....
quote
Ribben

Hmm, this seems pretty inconsistent with what you’ve been saying. Seems like this is a trolling account simply to goad. So fair play, good luck at Cambridge, if you do indeed have an offer....


Lol, I can assure you I am not trolling. I really did get into Cambridge, and didn't have a first, nor finished within the top 5% of my year. And I really do think that your profile matters more than your grades.
[quote]
Hmm, this seems pretty inconsistent with what you’ve been saying. Seems like this is a trolling account simply to goad. So fair play, good luck at Cambridge, if you do indeed have an offer....[/quote]

Lol, I can assure you I am not trolling. I really did get into Cambridge, and didn't have a first, nor finished within the top 5% of my year. And I really do think that your profile matters more than your grades.

quote
Lantern
I agree with Ribben. Cambridge is looking for something much more than grades. I have a first and an exceptionally strong profile... I was rejected
I agree with Ribben. Cambridge is looking for something much more than grades. I have a first and an exceptionally strong profile... I was rejected
quote
AdmissionL...
Apart from that, it might be useful to keep an eye on which country you come from and who is also applying from there; as far as I know, Cambridge is keen to consider most of the countries but only has a limited number of places for each of them – after all, not everyone should come from the same region. Depending on the particular year you can have it easier or harder.

It is simply an extensive decision-making process in which numerous factors are taken into account.

[Edited by AdmissionLLM on Mar 13, 2018]

Apart from that, it might be useful to keep an eye on which country you come from and who is also applying from there; as far as I know, Cambridge is keen to consider most of the countries but only has a limited number of places for each of them – after all, not everyone should come from the same region. Depending on the particular year you can have it easier or harder.

It is simply an extensive decision-making process in which numerous factors are taken into account.
quote
WILawyer
I agree with Ribben. Cambridge is looking for something much more than grades. I have a first and an exceptionally strong profile... I was rejected


Lantern, like you, I have an extremely competitive profile, including a first as well and also wasn't accepted.

Suffice it to say that I think it's pretty difficult for any of us in here to say with any certainty what exactly Cambridge is looking for in their applicants, if they allege that a first is a minimum requirement but some with a first are rejected while some without are accepted.

You just apply and hope for the best, really.

I would highly doubt, though, that they are willing to look past the requirement of having a first for those outside the UK when one considers that UK students form the largest proportion of Cambridge LLM students.

I am more inclined to the view that UK students are given preference and the remaining places for those from outside the UK would be extremely competitive, but again, that is just a theory which only Cambridge could confirm or refute (which, of course, is unlikely to happen).
[quote]I agree with Ribben. Cambridge is looking for something much more than grades. I have a first and an exceptionally strong profile... I was rejected[/quote]

Lantern, like you, I have an extremely competitive profile, including a first as well and also wasn't accepted.

Suffice it to say that I think it's pretty difficult for any of us in here to say with any certainty what exactly Cambridge is looking for in their applicants, if they allege that a first is a minimum requirement but some with a first are rejected while some without are accepted.

You just apply and hope for the best, really.

I would highly doubt, though, that they are willing to look past the requirement of having a first for those outside the UK when one considers that UK students form the largest proportion of Cambridge LLM students.

I am more inclined to the view that UK students are given preference and the remaining places for those from outside the UK would be extremely competitive, but again, that is just a theory which only Cambridge could confirm or refute (which, of course, is unlikely to happen).

quote
Lantern
Any updates on the MCL and Gates Cambridge?
Any updates on the MCL and Gates Cambridge?
quote
Just a kind reminder to all those who are heading to other places than Cambridge: please, do consider that letting Cambridge know that you will not attend the LLM might help those who will but do not have enough funding get some. :)

Thank you very much and may you have a wonderful year wherever you will be!
Just a kind reminder to all those who are heading to other places than Cambridge: please, do consider that letting Cambridge know that you will not attend the LLM might help those who will but do not have enough funding get some. :)

Thank you very much and may you have a wonderful year wherever you will be!
quote
Fifika
I think it d be worth it for future applicants and those rejected to understand briefly what the profile of those who got an offer looks like in terms of grades/previous degree/duration of work experience/in what sector. Thanks and well done for getting in! Also do any of you think that if rejected, it s a bad idea to reapply in the future? Will it impact the outcome of your application?
I think it d be worth it for future applicants and those rejected to understand briefly what the profile of those who got an offer looks like in terms of grades/previous degree/duration of work experience/in what sector. Thanks and well done for getting in! Also do any of you think that if rejected, it s a bad idea to reapply in the future? Will it impact the outcome of your application?
quote
NALLMCam
guys does any one know tentatively, what would happen if you dont meet the academic condition? I mean what percentage of people still get accepted?
guys does any one know tentatively, what would happen if you dont meet the academic condition? I mean what percentage of people still get accepted?
quote
LLM2238
I think it d be worth it for future applicants and those rejected to understand briefly what the profile of those who got an offer looks like in terms of grades/previous degree/duration of work experience/in what sector. Thanks and well done for getting in! Also do any of you think that if rejected, it s a bad idea to reapply in the future? Will it impact the outcome of your application?


Here's a very brief outline of mine:
Studied straight law (LLB) at a UK university
Achieved a first/came in the top 3% of the year
Won various prizes for the highest grades in finals
Got quite a few sports & extra curricular achievements
Worked for 3 years in law, with some of it abroad
Hope this helps and good luck with your other apps!

[Edited by LLM2238 on Mar 17, 2018]

[quote]I think it d be worth it for future applicants and those rejected to understand briefly what the profile of those who got an offer looks like in terms of grades/previous degree/duration of work experience/in what sector. Thanks and well done for getting in! Also do any of you think that if rejected, it s a bad idea to reapply in the future? Will it impact the outcome of your application? [/quote]

Here's a very brief outline of mine:
Studied straight law (LLB) at a UK university
Achieved a first/came in the top 3% of the year
Won various prizes for the highest grades in finals
Got quite a few sports & extra curricular achievements
Worked for 3 years in law, with some of it abroad
Hope this helps and good luck with your other apps!
quote

Reply to Post

Related Law Schools

Cambridge, United Kingdom 582 Followers 673 Discussions

Related Articles

UK Student Visas for LL.M. Students

By Vanessa Ellingham on Nov 30, 2017

Living an International Life in England

By Emily Cataneo on Mar 23, 2016

More Articles

Hot Discussions