Hi, I'm horribly confused!

I am currently finishing up my B.A in Political Science at a university in Ontario, Canada. I am going to apply for an LLM in either International Law or International Commercial Law programmes in the UK, but I have a 2:2 level degree. I have interned with the U.N.H.C.R and received an amazing reference letter a few years past. Also I will be able to get a letter of recommendation from various professors of international relations and international economics. My GPA was brought down due to electives I wasn't able to focus greatly on due to my working during a full time university career as well as going through extensive personal crisis. However my required courses, pertaining to international law and politics are all over grade B.

Would I have difficulty getting into LLM programs in the UK?
Also, if I succeed in attaining my LLM in the UK how will I be able to practice law in Canada.

Thank you all in advance.

Hi,

I'll try my best.

Firstly - and importantly - an LLM is never going to let you practice law in Canada. LLMs are really just an opportunity for people to specialize in a particular legal subject, not an opportunity for a non-lawyer to become one. So if being a lawyer is what you really want to do, you might be looking in the wrong spot.

As far as I understand, if you want to practice in Canada you either need to go to law school and get an LLB, BCL or JD in Canada and then pass the bar, OR, if you are intent on going to England you will need to do a Postgraduate Diploma in Law (PDL), after which you would still need to take a Legal Practice Course (LPC) if you want to be a solicitor, or a Bar Vocational Course (BVC) if you want to be a barrister. Then, in order to practice in Canada, the Bar Association of your province might decide that you need to take a number of conversion courses (sometimes many, and each of which can cost up to $500), after which you can pass the bar. All said, it is a much longer process to go to England to become a lawyer than it is to stay in Canada and become one here directly.

Now, if you have a 2:2 degree that will likely inhibit your chances into getting into a Canadian law school, so England might be a good bet if being a lawyer is absolutely what you want -- but getting an amazing LSAT score can also counter low marks, which is what I think most Canadians would counsel you to focus on. In my personal opinion, I would advise that you spend a year doing something that will make you stand out from the crowd, study hard for the LSAT, and write a killer personal statement to go along with your 165+ score, and you should have a chance in some Canadian law schools.

For your questions you will probably get a lot more answers on conversion and the benefits (and many problems) associated with studying law abroad in a different jurisdiction if you go to www.lawstudents.ca or www.lawbuzz.ca.

Good luck!

Hi,

I'll try my best.

Firstly - and importantly - an LLM is never going to let you practice law in Canada. LLMs are really just an opportunity for people to specialize in a particular legal subject, not an opportunity for a non-lawyer to become one. So if being a lawyer is what you really want to do, you might be looking in the wrong spot.

As far as I understand, if you want to practice in Canada you either need to go to law school and get an LLB, BCL or JD in Canada and then pass the bar, OR, if you are intent on going to England you will need to do a Postgraduate Diploma in Law (PDL), after which you would still need to take a Legal Practice Course (LPC) if you want to be a solicitor, or a Bar Vocational Course (BVC) if you want to be a barrister. Then, in order to practice in Canada, the Bar Association of your province might decide that you need to take a number of conversion courses (sometimes many, and each of which can cost up to $500), after which you can pass the bar. All said, it is a much longer process to go to England to become a lawyer than it is to stay in Canada and become one here directly.

Now, if you have a 2:2 degree that will likely inhibit your chances into getting into a Canadian law school, so England might be a good bet if being a lawyer is absolutely what you want -- but getting an amazing LSAT score can also counter low marks, which is what I think most Canadians would counsel you to focus on. In my personal opinion, I would advise that you spend a year doing something that will make you stand out from the crowd, study hard for the LSAT, and write a killer personal statement to go along with your 165+ score, and you should have a chance in some Canadian law schools.

For your questions you will probably get a lot more answers on conversion and the benefits (and many problems) associated with studying law abroad in a different jurisdiction if you go to www.lawstudents.ca or www.lawbuzz.ca.

Good luck!

"As I understand I will need to do a GDL course after which I would apply to earn my LLM, is this correct?"

You don't need an LLM to practice law in either the UK or Canada. After you take the GDL, you then need to take the LPC, and then a two year training contract to become a solicitor (so 4 years in total, or 3 years for the bar).

Yes. Kerfuffle's right. Just to avoid confusion, I referred above to the "PDL" (Postgraduate Diploma in Law) and that's what the GDL (Graduate Diploma in Law) is that Kerfuffle is referring to. They are the same thing.

I think some of your confusion stems from the fact that some foreigners use the LLM as an opportunity to practice law in the US. There, a foreign lawyer can take an LLM and it will allow them the opportunity to pass the bar in some states. I'm not an expert on this though, and in either case, you would not be able to take an LLM in the US until you had finished law school.

And in any case, again, I urge you to consider working hard on the LSAT instead of pursuing your legal studies in England. The reality is that unless you go to Oxbridge (which you won't be able to with your stats) your degree will not be looked upon highly by Canadian employers because they know that many Canadians who cannot get into law school in Canada go to England to do so. Additionally, when it comes time to do your articling in Canada, you will almost certainly be passed over in favour of Canadian-educated law graduates (even if you do go to Oxbridge!) who are more familiar with Canadian law, which will make qualifying in Canada very difficult. Afterwards, you will still have to pass the NCA exams (and like I said, these are expensive) and you might even be required to take another year (or more) of schooling in Canada before you can pass the bar here.

Your best bet really is to beef up your CV and study for the LSAT to be accepted in Canada.

hi....
i am a law graduate from india. i intend to settle in canada and practise there. for that i must do LLB from canada(in order to get good nderstanding of law of canada). but the counsellors in india says that going for LLb from canada would be a pain as there would be VISA issues......they suggested me to go for post-graduate diploma instead.....
my question is is there any diploma which is connected to law or covers legal subjects???? if so, then what are the job prospects after such diploma??? if not so....then please suggest me a subject for post graduate diploma which can fetch me a good and well paying job in canada, which has job prospects in canada.....
i am basically focussing on the state of "Alberta" .......suggestions on other states are warmly welcomed....

please help me.....your guidance would undoubtedly be special for me...

THANKS IN ADVANCE........WAITING FOR THE REPLY..

Hi there

I don't want to be rude, but it sounds like you haven't really done your research.

besides, the visa-immigration issues, you'll also have look at funding.

If you want to come to Canada to immigrate, please be aware that Canada is very protectionistic when it comes to professional qualifications. If you intend to practise law in Canada you'll need to apply to the National committee on accrediation. you can find info on it on these threads - the real issue is work. you'll need to article before you can work as a lawyer, and there is a lack of articles in Canada.

as for taking another post grad degree in Canada, stay away from the LL.M as it doesn't qualify you to practise law in Canada. Unless you want to become a prof at a university it is useless.

there are many many qualified immigrants in Canadian cities that drive taxis and work at gas stations. Canada does not really recogize foreign credentials and it makes you jump through hoops even if it does.

the good news is that Alberta is a growing economy, if you have experience in truck driving or work on the oil rigs you can make $90,000 a year! serious money, but its not glamorous. alternatively if you want to do something else than law look at studying at : Sait or Nait (they're local community colleges in alberta, but they teach the trades).

there is no easy postgrad diploma that'll give you a well paying job in Canada! sorry. anyone that says otherwise is lying. you might try contacting some ethnic organisations in canada, they might beable to point you in the right direction.

Canada likes its immigrants to be poor and uneducated, that way it'll take them decades to integrate. their kids will grow up Canadian and have all the benefits of being Canadian but the 1st generation will have a really hard time. there are countless stories of educated immigrants unable to find work in their field in Canada. unless you're wealthy then you can start your own business.

Calgary has job prospects and a decent immigrant community, so does Edmonton otherwise Toronto and Vancouver are good.

- by the way, I'm Canadian, and I practised law in the Uk for 4yrs, I had to go thru all the NCA stuff. its hard and soul destroying and when you're working to support your family and studying at the same time and look for articles......well.......its hard.

please do some research and be realistic about prospects in Canada, its not all rosy and immigrants face a lot of hurdles here. if you have a family you'll also have to think about them, its very isolating if you don't have a job here and it will be hard for your family life.

all the best to you, and I sincerely hope you succeed in whatever you decide to do, but please do your research beforehand otherwise Canada is a very cold and isolating place.

hi confused. It seems you've got alot of info but have mixed it all up.....like LLM, LSAT, etc. Its understandable.....when i was first looking into lawschool......i was soooo confused with the tons of conflciting info i would find. But as far as canadian lawschool's and the LSAT, i would say its really tuff. And the best students in the US (Harvard, etc only get 165-175). A higher score can help if your GPA is low....but its a super big hurdle....its tuff to get a really high score. If you want avoid all that....and sounds like you do since your thinking UK lawschool....i would look into the new JD the College of Law in london is offering. Its the cheapest, fastest route to practice in the UK (for foreign students) and let's you easily return to the US or Canada with a JD to take the Bar with no need for an LLM.

http://www.college-of-law.co.uk/JD/

Alot of info on this is in the UK Board discussion under "reputation of the college if law (of england and whales)".

Good luck.

--edited--

Hi there

re: college of law JD program.

do you really need the new JD program? just by having a LL.B allows you to sit the new york bar exam.

the real issue is the bar exam, not any new courses or pysdo degrees offered by the college of law.