MLB or ILF LLM?


I have been admitted to both of these programs and as the deadlines are coming up I think I finally need to make a decision. I'm wondering which one is better especially in terms of getting a law firm job in the long term? Any thoughts?

I have been admitted to both of these programs and as the deadlines are coming up I think I finally need to make a decision. I'm wondering which one is better especially in terms of getting a law firm job in the long term? Any thoughts?
quote
Lamine

Appears that several people are facing this dilemma b/c the programs appear to be so much alike.

It is a close call for me as well, but I tend to lean towards ILF b/c (1) it is in Frankfurt, where there appear to be far more int'l job opportunities (which you would still have access to through the MLB), (2) it is 5000 euros cheaper for what appears to be at least an equivalent program, if not better, (3) the coursework, while more limited than the MLB, allows you to gain substantive knowledge according to the traditional schedule, rather than cramming numerous topics in 3/4 days at a time (this largely depends on your preference and objectives in pursuing the program), (4) an LLM is easily recognized throughout the world, whereas an MLB would always have to be explained.

Having said this, Bucerius is the #1 ranked law school in Germany and WHU is the #2 business school. However, this may not matter as much outside of Germany, especially when employers are comparing a recognizable LLM to an unknown MLB (which is an issue for me as an aspiring attorney -- may not be so for business and econ grads). Not claiming that this is a definitive issue for employers, but it is one that crossed my mind in the decision-making process.

Hope this helps, at least a little!

Appears that several people are facing this dilemma b/c the programs appear to be so much alike.

It is a close call for me as well, but I tend to lean towards ILF b/c (1) it is in Frankfurt, where there appear to be far more int'l job opportunities (which you would still have access to through the MLB), (2) it is 5000 euros cheaper for what appears to be at least an equivalent program, if not better, (3) the coursework, while more limited than the MLB, allows you to gain substantive knowledge according to the traditional schedule, rather than cramming numerous topics in 3/4 days at a time (this largely depends on your preference and objectives in pursuing the program), (4) an LLM is easily recognized throughout the world, whereas an MLB would always have to be explained.

Having said this, Bucerius is the #1 ranked law school in Germany and WHU is the #2 business school. However, this may not matter as much outside of Germany, especially when employers are comparing a recognizable LLM to an unknown MLB (which is an issue for me as an aspiring attorney -- may not be so for business and econ grads). Not claiming that this is a definitive issue for employers, but it is one that crossed my mind in the decision-making process.

Hope this helps, at least a little!

quote
oujock79

I am a current student in the Bucerius/WHU Masters program and I was having the same issues when I was applying. I am a US attorney and I wanted to make sure that the MLB degree was beneficial. I visited both institutions and from the time I visited both I knew that Bucerius/WHU program was for me. The program has so many contacts with huge international law firms throughout the world. I went on 6 interviews and I received 6 offers for my internship because of the Bucerius name. There include firms such as White & Case, Linklaters, and KL Gates to name a few. Because there was so much interest I am completing another internship in July. We had students complete their internships in New York, Washington DC, London, Brussels, Frankfurt, Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, and various other locations all at top firms or banks.

As far as Hamburg to Frankfurt....all of the law firms in Frankfurt also have offices in Hamburg. Hamburg is the 2nd largest city in Germany and is growing bigger everyday. If you visit both locations you will agree that Hamburg has a higher quality of life and cheaper living than Frankfurt. If you are interested in doing your internship in Frankfurt that is very possible. I think there were 10 students there this year. If you are wanting to stay in Germany afterwards I think the Bucerius/WHU names are more significant than the ILF but you can let the ranks make up your minds.

Since the program is also coming to a close I have started my interview process and through Bucerius I have a nice interview at one of the largest shipping companies for inside counsel. Plus the firms that I interned with have US locations which I am also speaking to about positions.

As for classes, their is a great benefit to having guest lecturers from Deutsche Bank, IBM, Allen & Overy, Lovells, CMS Hasche Sigle and various other banks or law firm partners. You not only learn the basic concepts but you are learning how these concepts play out on a day to day basis. You are forming relationships with these important business contacts who can help with internships or for letters of recommendations. Yes you have to work harder and be prepared for the classes ahead of time, but in return you there is no comparison to the knowledge and actual experience the teachers can provide.

Bucerius has just opened up another institute in DC, Israel, and China. Bucerius has many connections with hundreds of LLB/JD institutions throughout the world for their semester exchange programs. Bucerius and WHU receive substantial financial support from banks and law firms and are very well known. I found out about the program from a partner at White & Case Hamburg, the other US student here found out from an attorney in DC so the name is out there. This is just the second year and I would say that it has been a huge success. The most renown German scholar on German Business Forms also is the Dean of the school and taught classes in the MLB program. As for as the 5,000 more, I think you can make that back your first year of working...

If you have any other questions or concerns I will be happy to answer them for you. I know it is a hard decision which I also had to make last year, but I am 100% happy with this program and would do it all over again.

I am a current student in the Bucerius/WHU Masters program and I was having the same issues when I was applying. I am a US attorney and I wanted to make sure that the MLB degree was beneficial. I visited both institutions and from the time I visited both I knew that Bucerius/WHU program was for me. The program has so many contacts with huge international law firms throughout the world. I went on 6 interviews and I received 6 offers for my internship because of the Bucerius name. There include firms such as White & Case, Linklaters, and KL Gates to name a few. Because there was so much interest I am completing another internship in July. We had students complete their internships in New York, Washington DC, London, Brussels, Frankfurt, Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, and various other locations all at top firms or banks.

As far as Hamburg to Frankfurt....all of the law firms in Frankfurt also have offices in Hamburg. Hamburg is the 2nd largest city in Germany and is growing bigger everyday. If you visit both locations you will agree that Hamburg has a higher quality of life and cheaper living than Frankfurt. If you are interested in doing your internship in Frankfurt that is very possible. I think there were 10 students there this year. If you are wanting to stay in Germany afterwards I think the Bucerius/WHU names are more significant than the ILF but you can let the ranks make up your minds.

Since the program is also coming to a close I have started my interview process and through Bucerius I have a nice interview at one of the largest shipping companies for inside counsel. Plus the firms that I interned with have US locations which I am also speaking to about positions.

As for classes, their is a great benefit to having guest lecturers from Deutsche Bank, IBM, Allen & Overy, Lovells, CMS Hasche Sigle and various other banks or law firm partners. You not only learn the basic concepts but you are learning how these concepts play out on a day to day basis. You are forming relationships with these important business contacts who can help with internships or for letters of recommendations. Yes you have to work harder and be prepared for the classes ahead of time, but in return you there is no comparison to the knowledge and actual experience the teachers can provide.

Bucerius has just opened up another institute in DC, Israel, and China. Bucerius has many connections with hundreds of LLB/JD institutions throughout the world for their semester exchange programs. Bucerius and WHU receive substantial financial support from banks and law firms and are very well known. I found out about the program from a partner at White & Case Hamburg, the other US student here found out from an attorney in DC so the name is out there. This is just the second year and I would say that it has been a huge success. The most renown German scholar on German Business Forms also is the Dean of the school and taught classes in the MLB program. As for as the 5,000 more, I think you can make that back your first year of working...

If you have any other questions or concerns I will be happy to answer them for you. I know it is a hard decision which I also had to make last year, but I am 100% happy with this program and would do it all over again.
quote
Mr. Lawyer

It is widely known that Bucerious is a great place for undergrads. When it comes to post-graduation and LL.M their quality and reputation in the German market suffers a important loss.

It is undisputable, definitive that the ILF is the leading Institute for finance in the continental europe.

If you wanna to check it, just have a look at the posts from both schools since the very beginning. There are some interesting internal comments regarding both courses at the LLM.Guide.

Ciao

It is widely known that Bucerious is a great place for undergrads. When it comes to post-graduation and LL.M their quality and reputation in the German market suffers a important loss.

It is undisputable, definitive that the ILF is the leading Institute for finance in the continental europe.

If you wanna to check it, just have a look at the posts from both schools since the very beginning. There are some interesting internal comments regarding both courses at the LLM.Guide.

Ciao
quote
btr

LLM Finance represents the golden ratio (at least for me) by numerous aspects such as:

a) the city (financial center of the continental Europe and closer to most of the nice places to be seen)
b) university (has a good reputation both for its law and business schools) I don't know but I can admit that Bucerius/WHU may be slightly better but can this change the whole scene?
c) courses are more appropriate (at least for me) with specific banking (commercial, investment, central banks, etc.) issues
d) I didn't like the module system at MLB
e) internship (Also MLB has it but leading banks have their headquarters in Frankfurt and this makes ILF internship choice better)
f) the new House of Finance concept will add an enormous value to ILF I believe.
g) the libraries in Frankfurt (National Library, libraries of some banks such as bundesbank, etc.) will be able to serve us the best in Germany
h) Frankly, I couldn't find a reason to pay an extra 5 thousand Euros
i) Simply I want LLM Finance more than MLB...

Sure everyone will make his/her own decisions. These two schools are both really great and those who go to MLB will not be regretful, neither will us!

Take care buddies, see you in Frankfurt in October ...

LLM Finance represents the golden ratio (at least for me) by numerous aspects such as:

a) the city (financial center of the continental Europe and closer to most of the nice places to be seen)
b) university (has a good reputation both for its law and business schools) I don't know but I can admit that Bucerius/WHU may be slightly better but can this change the whole scene?
c) courses are more appropriate (at least for me) with specific banking (commercial, investment, central banks, etc.) issues
d) I didn't like the module system at MLB
e) internship (Also MLB has it but leading banks have their headquarters in Frankfurt and this makes ILF internship choice better)
f) the new House of Finance concept will add an enormous value to ILF I believe.
g) the libraries in Frankfurt (National Library, libraries of some banks such as bundesbank, etc.) will be able to serve us the best in Germany
h) Frankly, I couldn't find a reason to pay an extra 5 thousand Euros
i) Simply I want LLM Finance more than MLB...

Sure everyone will make his/her own decisions. These two schools are both really great and those who go to MLB will not be regretful, neither will us!

Take care buddies, see you in Frankfurt in October ...
quote
Indlaw

Hi, I have also been offered an admission this year at ILF. THough i am arranging for the fees, i was honestly divided to choose b/w ILF, Germany and other European univ's like UCL, Kings, LSE.

I must say that i am truly impressed with the course content and structure proposed by ILF.

Are you all decided to be there at ILF this year??
Indlaw

I have been admitted to both of these programs and as the deadlines are coming up I think I finally need to make a decision. I'm wondering which one is better especially in terms of getting a law firm job in the long term? Any thoughts?

Hi, I have also been offered an admission this year at ILF. THough i am arranging for the fees, i was honestly divided to choose b/w ILF, Germany and other European univ's like UCL, Kings, LSE.

I must say that i am truly impressed with the course content and structure proposed by ILF.

Are you all decided to be there at ILF this year??
Indlaw

<blockquote>I have been admitted to both of these programs and as the deadlines are coming up I think I finally need to make a decision. I'm wondering which one is better especially in terms of getting a law firm job in the long term? Any thoughts?</blockquote>
quote
york

I would be curious to know if foreign students will get access to the German/European job market with an LLM from either ILF or MLB. Any first-hand information?

I would be curious to know if foreign students will get access to the German/European job market with an LLM from either ILF or MLB. Any first-hand information?
quote

Hi York-
I did the MLB 2 years ago with the first class... I have a legal background and did my internship for the MLB at a German Shipping Line. After the internship I did my thesis for the same company and was later offered a job in the controlling department.
I know of at least 3 classmates who are not from Germany but have been able to land local jobs. Hope this helps-
Best,
Rodrigo

Hi York-
I did the MLB 2 years ago with the first class... I have a legal background and did my internship for the MLB at a German Shipping Line. After the internship I did my thesis for the same company and was later offered a job in the controlling department.
I know of at least 3 classmates who are not from Germany but have been able to land local jobs. Hope this helps-
Best,
Rodrigo
quote
MW

Hi,

I am a current student at ILF. At the moment I think about 5 of my non-German classmates either already have a job at or an offer to join a law firm here in Frankfurt.

In addition many of the alumni work here in Frankfurt.

Let me know if you want further info on the job market in Frankfurt.

Hi,

I am a current student at ILF. At the moment I think about 5 of my non-German classmates either already have a job at or an offer to join a law firm here in Frankfurt.

In addition many of the alumni work here in Frankfurt.

Let me know if you want further info on the job market in Frankfurt.
quote
york

Thanks RodrigoHart and MW, I was just asking out of curiosity. I read a lot about these two programs in the LLM-Guide board, but I was not really sure whether the German job market is actually accessible for foreign-educated lawyers.

Thanks RodrigoHart and MW, I was just asking out of curiosity. I read a lot about these two programs in the LLM-Guide board, but I was not really sure whether the German job market is actually accessible for foreign-educated lawyers.
quote
mwingu

there are couple of opportunities out there...many companies are looking into diversifying their teams...so you have a chance...i was in Rodrigo's class, though I have an accounting background. I had an internship at Deutsche Bank and now i am working with a Hedge Fund called Sovereign Finance down in Düsseldorf....

good luck!

there are couple of opportunities out there...many companies are looking into diversifying their teams...so you have a chance...i was in Rodrigo's class, though I have an accounting background. I had an internship at Deutsche Bank and now i am working with a Hedge Fund called Sovereign Finance down in Düsseldorf....

good luck!
quote
BigHeadB

However, in terms of German proficiency, do global firms or banks having their presence in Frankfurt (or elsewhere within Germany) normally set a requirement that all internship / traineeship applicants must have attained a certain level of proficiency in German? It seems to me that for those foreigners who are interested in getting a job in Germany, the major difficutly is whether they can understand or talk in German. Would they place a great emphasis on the German proficiency of applicants during the selection process, and if so, are they required to show some kind of language certificates?

Any non-German ILF / MLB students can share their view on this?

However, in terms of German proficiency, do global firms or banks having their presence in Frankfurt (or elsewhere within Germany) normally set a requirement that all internship / traineeship applicants must have attained a certain level of proficiency in German? It seems to me that for those foreigners who are interested in getting a job in Germany, the major difficutly is whether they can understand or talk in German. Would they place a great emphasis on the German proficiency of applicants during the selection process, and if so, are they required to show some kind of language certificates?

Any non-German ILF / MLB students can share their view on this?
quote
sheshtas

Hello everyone.

Since I was accepted to both MLB and LLM at ILF, I have the same headache - which one to choose. Could any of you point out pres and cons of each other? Matters the quality of studies, intensivity, cost of living, possibility to get scholarships, staff, peer, recognition between employers, more fitted fields to work in after graduation and so on.
I think all well-grounded answers would be of invaluable price for a lot of undecided ones like me :)

Hello everyone.

Since I was accepted to both MLB and LLM at ILF, I have the same headache - which one to choose. Could any of you point out pres and cons of each other? Matters the quality of studies, intensivity, cost of living, possibility to get scholarships, staff, peer, recognition between employers, more fitted fields to work in after graduation and so on.
I think all well-grounded answers would be of invaluable price for a lot of undecided ones like me :)
quote
Beal

Hi sheshtas,

I cannot tell you a lot about pros&cons of ILF, but I am in the current MLB batch and certainly able to give you some more information on our program.

To give you some information on issues that may not be found on webpages immediately:
- What I appreciate a lot about the program is that the schedule is designed in a way that theoretically allows you to attend every class that is being offered
- The intensity of classes varies, definately but there is no problem in finding the right "mix" for oneself
- The exchange within our very international group definately contributes a lot to the experience
- As far as I can tell most of my classmates went to well known companies and law firms for their internships
- We´ve had all the famous lawfirms as well as the major consulting companies on campus for specific company presentations and recruiting events
- My personal experience with the title (MLB) has been that recruiters didn´t necessarily know the program (we´re only the third batch), but were very interested in the combination and easily convinced due to the names of the schools behind it.

If you have further questions please post an email where I can contact you.

Best regards

Hi sheshtas,

I cannot tell you a lot about pros&cons of ILF, but I am in the current MLB batch and certainly able to give you some more information on our program.

To give you some information on issues that may not be found on webpages immediately:
- What I appreciate a lot about the program is that the schedule is designed in a way that theoretically allows you to attend every class that is being offered
- The intensity of classes varies, definately but there is no problem in finding the right "mix" for oneself
- The exchange within our very international group definately contributes a lot to the experience
- As far as I can tell most of my classmates went to well known companies and law firms for their internships
- We´ve had all the famous lawfirms as well as the major consulting companies on campus for specific company presentations and recruiting events
- My personal experience with the title (MLB) has been that recruiters didn´t necessarily know the program (we´re only the third batch), but were very interested in the combination and easily convinced due to the names of the schools behind it.

If you have further questions please post an email where I can contact you.

Best regards

quote

MLB no doubts

MLB no doubts
quote
Cefe

The MLB is known by many of the partners in big US law offices. I went to an event hosted by the American Friends of Bucerius where the General Counsel of Deutsche Bank spoke for the school, and partners from many of the US offices of big firms were present to support the school (I only remember the ones I spoke to who were from White and Case, Venable, Allen & Overy,and Dechert).

The MLB is known by many of the partners in big US law offices. I went to an event hosted by the American Friends of Bucerius where the General Counsel of Deutsche Bank spoke for the school, and partners from many of the US offices of big firms were present to support the school (I only remember the ones I spoke to who were from White and Case, Venable, Allen & Overy,and Dechert).
quote
Bent86

How large are the class size of the MLB and ILF? Is one school bigger?

How large are the class size of the MLB and ILF? Is one school bigger?
quote

MLB no doubts

MLB no doubts
quote
Bent86

Yes, based on what I have learned I am thinking MLB is a better choice

Yes, based on what I have learned I am thinking MLB is a better choice
quote
Erkan

Professor Markus Rudolf, academic director of the MLB, about placement prospects:

"Well, weve already had two classes that have graduated, and all of those students have been quite successfully placed in law firms, industrial firms, and banks. One integral part of the program is an internship. It was not too complicated, even though the program was brand new and nobody knew about it to place them for those six weeks in those companies as well as the law firms. There is obviously demand for our graduates, and that shows that our concept seems to be interesting to the business world."

Source: http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/07/03/markus_rudolf_whu_finance_interview/

Professor Markus Rudolf, academic director of the MLB, about placement prospects:

"Well, we’ve already had two classes that have graduated, and all of those students have been quite successfully placed in law firms, industrial firms, and banks. One integral part of the program is an internship. It was not too complicated, even though the program was brand new and nobody knew about it to place them for those six weeks in those companies as well as the law firms. There is obviously demand for our graduates, and that shows that our concept seems to be interesting to the business world."

Source: http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/07/03/markus_rudolf_whu_finance_interview/
quote

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