Equivalent Dutch LLM to US degree?


Kaar
Hi there, I can't seem to find info on this anywhere: what is the US equivalent of a Dutch LLM degree? Is it JD, LLM, or other? Any help figuring this out would be MUCH appreciated!!!! Thanks so much.
Hi there, I can't seem to find info on this anywhere: what is the US equivalent of a Dutch LLM degree? Is it JD, LLM, or other? Any help figuring this out would be MUCH appreciated!!!! Thanks so much.
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Brainy Smu...
Dutch LLM = US LLM. No difference.

Some Dutch (Belgium or Netherlands) universities have regular master of laws (MA) programmes that are ordinary graduate programmes. Whereas others Dutch universities will have an advanced LLM. The regular LLM functions as a Master of Arts (MA) degree in a specialised area of law.

Is there a difference? Some people will state, yes, while others will state no! Reason. Because the [ordinary] MA of law is designed for people who did not earn a law degree (i.e.. JD or LLB) but an undergraduate or graduate degree in another focus area (major). Whilst the advanced LLM is designed for law graduated who were conferred a qualifying law degree from their respective country.

Cheers.
Dutch LLM = US LLM. No difference.

Some Dutch (Belgium or Netherlands) universities have regular master of laws (MA) programmes that are ordinary graduate programmes. Whereas others Dutch universities will have an advanced LLM. The regular LLM functions as a Master of Arts (MA) degree in a specialised area of law.

Is there a difference? Some people will state, yes, while others will state no! Reason. Because the [ordinary] MA of law is designed for people who did not earn a law degree (i.e.. JD or LLB) but an undergraduate or graduate degree in another focus area (major). Whilst the advanced LLM is designed for law graduated who were conferred a qualifying law degree from their respective country.

Cheers.
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Kaar
Thank you! This is great info. In my case it concerns an advanced LLM that followed an LLB (both in The Netherlands). In the US, LLMs are research oriented and regarded as advanced compared to the JD, which is a professional degree. Do you perhaps know if the Dutch advanced LLM is seen to outrank the US JD or whether it is equal to a JD? And if you do, do you know of any links that I can find more information on this? I need to obtain a simple evaluation of my LLM degree in order to apply for a position at Stanford University...
Thank you! This is great info. In my case it concerns an advanced LLM that followed an LLB (both in The Netherlands). In the US, LLMs are research oriented and regarded as advanced compared to the JD, which is a professional degree. Do you perhaps know if the Dutch advanced LLM is seen to outrank the US JD or whether it is equal to a JD? And if you do, do you know of any links that I can find more information on this? I need to obtain a simple evaluation of my LLM degree in order to apply for a position at Stanford University...
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Brainy Smu...
Unfortunately the Dutch advanced LLM does not compare with the US JD. The only LLM of value in the US is a specialised LLM in tax law. The Juris Doctorate (JD), in the US, is seen as a professional post-graduate degree despite it being equaled to the LLB in stature.

If you are applying to Stanford law school (SLS). I believe SLS evaluates your LLM to determine if it meets their criteria (or requirements). I believe, and this could be speculation, but SLS will enquire about where you got your undergraduate law degree from - meaning - does your law degree enable you to practice law in the Netherlands?

If you are trying to apply to SLS, you will have to apply through Law School Admission Council (LSAC). Located here: http://www.lsac.org/llm/. LSAC is similar to Studielink in the Netherlands but the LSAC complies with American Bar Association (ABA) provisions.

I found this information on Leiden's website about SLS's requirements located here: http://media.leidenuniv.nl/legacy/stanford-application-information.pdf

You might have to thoroughly read through SLS's information and procedures webpage located here: http://www.law.stanford.edu/degrees/advanced/admissions

Hope this helps.
Unfortunately the Dutch advanced LLM does not compare with the US JD. The only LLM of value in the US is a specialised LLM in tax law. The Juris Doctorate (JD), in the US, is seen as a professional post-graduate degree despite it being equaled to the LLB in stature.

If you are applying to Stanford law school (SLS). I believe SLS evaluates your LLM to determine if it meets their criteria (or requirements). I believe, and this could be speculation, but SLS will enquire about where you got your undergraduate law degree from - meaning - does your law degree enable you to practice law in the Netherlands?

If you are trying to apply to SLS, you will have to apply through Law School Admission Council (LSAC). Located here: http://www.lsac.org/llm/. LSAC is similar to Studielink in the Netherlands but the LSAC complies with American Bar Association (ABA) provisions.

I found this information on Leiden's website about SLS's requirements located here: http://media.leidenuniv.nl/legacy/stanford-application-information.pdf

You might have to thoroughly read through SLS's information and procedures webpage located here: http://www.law.stanford.edu/degrees/advanced/admissions

Hope this helps.
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Kaar
Thanks so much for all this info, this is definitely very helpful!
Thanks so much for all this info, this is definitely very helpful!
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The above post is not exactly correct. While the Dutch bar does require both a bachelor and a masters to practice law in the Netherlands, all law masters programs in the Netherlands award LLM degrees. At Leiden, for instance, the regular LLM program is open to both Dutch and international students, although it is a required degree to gain admission to the Dutch bar. The degree awarded at the end of the program is an LLM degree (not an MA), and it is offered in a range of subjects.

The advanced LLM program, on the other hand, is designed for students and practicing professionals that already possess an extensive background in the relevant area through study or practice. It is a substantially more demanding program, hence the title "advanced", and it is not a required degree for admission to the Dutch bar. In addition, the program is almost entirely comprised of international students, whereas the regular LLM will have a good mix of both Dutch and international students.

As for equivalence to a US degree, both programs are the equivalent of the US LLM degree (not the JD, which is a professional doctoral degree). In comparison with regular LLM degrees in Europe, however, the advanced LLM is more prestigious.

I hope this clarifies the issue for you. I do believe the situation in Belgium is different.
The above post is not exactly correct. While the Dutch bar does require both a bachelor and a masters to practice law in the Netherlands, all law masters programs in the Netherlands award LLM degrees. At Leiden, for instance, the regular LLM program is open to both Dutch and international students, although it is a required degree to gain admission to the Dutch bar. The degree awarded at the end of the program is an LLM degree (not an MA), and it is offered in a range of subjects.

The advanced LLM program, on the other hand, is designed for students and practicing professionals that already possess an extensive background in the relevant area through study or practice. It is a substantially more demanding program, hence the title "advanced", and it is not a required degree for admission to the Dutch bar. In addition, the program is almost entirely comprised of international students, whereas the regular LLM will have a good mix of both Dutch and international students.

As for equivalence to a US degree, both programs are the equivalent of the US LLM degree (not the JD, which is a professional doctoral degree). In comparison with regular LLM degrees in Europe, however, the advanced LLM is more prestigious.

I hope this clarifies the issue for you. I do believe the situation in Belgium is different.
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Brainy Smu...
I feel LLMstudent11 misread what was stated and overlooked the poster's question. However, LLMstudent11 did mention a grey area regarding the Netherlands qualifying law degree process. The regular LLM is specifically designed for resident law students pursuing to practice in the Netherlands. But the regular LLM functions as a Master of Arts (MA) degree to international students.
I feel LLMstudent11 misread what was stated and overlooked the poster's question. However, LLMstudent11 did mention a grey area regarding the Netherlands qualifying law degree process. The regular LLM is specifically designed for resident law students pursuing to practice in the Netherlands. But the regular LLM functions as a Master of Arts (MA) degree to international students.
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I do not mean to question your accuracy, but again you are incorrect. At Leiden the regular LLM degree operates as a regular LLM degree for both Dutch and international students. It does not operate as an MA degree. If by chance a student does not possess an LLB degree and obtains the regular LLM, they are still awarded an LLM degree, which will not entitle them to gain admission to the Dutch bar as they do not possess an LLB degree. There is no distinction at Leiden between Dutch and international students with regard to the operation of the LLM degree, except for the fact that if you hold an LLB degree, the regular LLM can gain you admission to the Dutch bar. Also, it is exceptionally rare for an non-LLB student to get into a LLM program. If they do, it will certainly be because they possess exceptional qualifications. Either way, at Leiden, the regular LLM program is the program that allows individuals to gain admission to the Dutch bar. The Dutch bar website also indicates that foreigners can gain admission to the Dutch bar with a foreign LLB and a Dutch LLM (provided they satisfy additional criteria). If you do not believe this statement, simply consult the school's website or contact the admissions office.
I do not mean to question your accuracy, but again you are incorrect. At Leiden the regular LLM degree operates as a regular LLM degree for both Dutch and international students. It does not operate as an MA degree. If by chance a student does not possess an LLB degree and obtains the regular LLM, they are still awarded an LLM degree, which will not entitle them to gain admission to the Dutch bar as they do not possess an LLB degree. There is no distinction at Leiden between Dutch and international students with regard to the operation of the LLM degree, except for the fact that if you hold an LLB degree, the regular LLM can gain you admission to the Dutch bar. Also, it is exceptionally rare for an non-LLB student to get into a LLM program. If they do, it will certainly be because they possess exceptional qualifications. Either way, at Leiden, the regular LLM program is the program that allows individuals to gain admission to the Dutch bar. The Dutch bar website also indicates that foreigners can gain admission to the Dutch bar with a foreign LLB and a Dutch LLM (provided they satisfy additional criteria). If you do not believe this statement, simply consult the school's website or contact the admissions office.
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Brainy Smu...
I appreciate the clarity. However, why tell a person to go to the website when you can easily post the information yourself?

Thanks for clarifying.
I appreciate the clarity. However, why tell a person to go to the website when you can easily post the information yourself?

Thanks for clarifying.
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bluecrown
Hi there, I can't seem to find info on this anywhere: what is the US equivalent of a Dutch LLM degree? Is it JD, LLM, or other? Any help figuring this out would be MUCH appreciated!!!! Thanks so much.


Hi,

It is my humble opinion that they are the same. I am not an expert in Dutch law but from my understanding, the first degree in law in the Netherlands is a bachelor's degree, pretty much like in the UK. And in the US, the first degree in law is a JD, which is a postgraduate degree, pretty much like where I come from. Nevertheless, the only requirement for US law schools to be admitted to the LLM program is a first degree in law. So even if an applicant took his/her law as a bachelor's degree (i.e. LLB) or as a postgraduate degree (i.e. JD), US law schools will not discriminate as to admission. The same thing with UK and Dutch LLM programs; they generally require a first degree in law to be admitted to the LLM program (whether LLB or JD). Maybe to an employer, it would be a plus factor if an applicant had a BS/BA, followed by a JD and then an LLM, as opposed to having just an LLB and an LLM, because of the additional educational attainment. But I would say that as to the LLM per se, it should be the same. Now, with regard to the curriculum and standard, there may be a difference, varying from institution to institution. But as to the degree conferred, they're both LLMs. This is just my humble opinion. Hope it helps.
<blockquote>Hi there, I can't seem to find info on this anywhere: what is the US equivalent of a Dutch LLM degree? Is it JD, LLM, or other? Any help figuring this out would be MUCH appreciated!!!! Thanks so much.</blockquote>

Hi,

It is my humble opinion that they are the same. I am not an expert in Dutch law but from my understanding, the first degree in law in the Netherlands is a bachelor's degree, pretty much like in the UK. And in the US, the first degree in law is a JD, which is a postgraduate degree, pretty much like where I come from. Nevertheless, the only requirement for US law schools to be admitted to the LLM program is a first degree in law. So even if an applicant took his/her law as a bachelor's degree (i.e. LLB) or as a postgraduate degree (i.e. JD), US law schools will not discriminate as to admission. The same thing with UK and Dutch LLM programs; they generally require a first degree in law to be admitted to the LLM program (whether LLB or JD). Maybe to an employer, it would be a plus factor if an applicant had a BS/BA, followed by a JD and then an LLM, as opposed to having just an LLB and an LLM, because of the additional educational attainment. But I would say that as to the LLM per se, it should be the same. Now, with regard to the curriculum and standard, there may be a difference, varying from institution to institution. But as to the degree conferred, they're both LLMs. This is just my humble opinion. Hope it helps.
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