I know these have been asked before, but unfortunately they haven' t been answered in detail so far.
I am considering doing the LL.M. by distance learning at the U of London (specialisation: IP Law). I am especially looking for the following information:
+ reputation: is the external programme equal to a "regular" degree in terms of reputation and standing
+ is there any way of funding the programme (I am from Austria originally and would also follow the course from here)
+ experiences: I would be most grateful for any information from a graduate of the programme as regards the exams and any experiences after graduation (finding a position, etc) - preferably from Austria or Germany
Thank you in advance
External programme - some questions
Posted Oct 11, 2006 21:35
0
I know these have been asked before, but unfortunately they haven' t been answered in detail so far.
I am considering doing the LL.M. by distance learning at the U of London (specialisation: IP Law). I am especially looking for the following information:
+ reputation: is the external programme equal to a "regular" degree in terms of reputation and standing
+ is there any way of funding the programme (I am from Austria originally and would also follow the course from here)
+ experiences: I would be most grateful for any information from a graduate of the programme as regards the exams and any experiences after graduation (finding a position, etc) - preferably from Austria or Germany
Thank you in advance
I am considering doing the LL.M. by distance learning at the U of London (specialisation: IP Law). I am especially looking for the following information:
+ reputation: is the external programme equal to a "regular" degree in terms of reputation and standing
+ is there any way of funding the programme (I am from Austria originally and would also follow the course from here)
+ experiences: I would be most grateful for any information from a graduate of the programme as regards the exams and any experiences after graduation (finding a position, etc) - preferably from Austria or Germany
Thank you in advance
Posted Nov 01, 2006 04:40
0
Hi, Guido,
I am considering to subscribe for LLM - International IP in UCL. Have you already started the course? Could you please advise me your findings?
Cheers,
Patricia
Hi, Guido,
I am considering to subscribe for LLM - International IP in UCL. Have you already started the course? Could you please advise me your findings?
Cheers,
Patricia
I am considering to subscribe for LLM - International IP in UCL. Have you already started the course? Could you please advise me your findings?
Cheers,
Patricia
Posted Nov 01, 2006 09:40
0
Hello,
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience".
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc.
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like.
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge.
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON.
Its a hard choice.
Good luck with whatever decision you make!
Hello,
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience".
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc.
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like.
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge.
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON.
Its a hard choice.
Good luck with whatever decision you make!
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience".
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc.
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like.
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge.
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON.
Its a hard choice.
Good luck with whatever decision you make!
Posted Nov 01, 2006 11:32
0
Thank you for your answers!
- Patricia: I have so far not started the course but I consider to submit my application before the deadline at the end of january next year. Are you considering the Distance Learning Programme as well? Do you consider specialising in IP?
- capa: thanks a lot for giving me your thoughts on distance learning. I would also prefer to go to London personally but due to my private situation distance learning currently appears to be the only solution. I think it is still better than having a LL.M. degree from an Austrian or German institution (there are a number of institutions that are given the right to award a LL.M. degree).
Do you know somebody who has completed the programme?
Thanks!
Guido
Thank you for your answers!
- Patricia: I have so far not started the course but I consider to submit my application before the deadline at the end of january next year. Are you considering the Distance Learning Programme as well? Do you consider specialising in IP?
- capa: thanks a lot for giving me your thoughts on distance learning. I would also prefer to go to London personally but due to my private situation distance learning currently appears to be the only solution. I think it is still better than having a LL.M. degree from an Austrian or German institution (there are a number of institutions that are given the right to award a LL.M. degree).
Do you know somebody who has completed the programme?
Thanks!
Guido
- Patricia: I have so far not started the course but I consider to submit my application before the deadline at the end of january next year. Are you considering the Distance Learning Programme as well? Do you consider specialising in IP?
- capa: thanks a lot for giving me your thoughts on distance learning. I would also prefer to go to London personally but due to my private situation distance learning currently appears to be the only solution. I think it is still better than having a LL.M. degree from an Austrian or German institution (there are a number of institutions that are given the right to award a LL.M. degree).
Do you know somebody who has completed the programme?
Thanks!
Guido
Posted Nov 01, 2006 16:17
0
Hi Guido,
Hamboldt U of Berlin, Free U of Berlin, Heildelberg, and Munich are world class.
Maybe you should ask the recruiting team at law firms in the jurisdiction in which you wish to practice and live.
Good luck with it.
Hi Guido,
Hamboldt U of Berlin, Free U of Berlin, Heildelberg, and Munich are world class.
Maybe you should ask the recruiting team at law firms in the jurisdiction in which you wish to practice and live.
Good luck with it.
Hamboldt U of Berlin, Free U of Berlin, Heildelberg, and Munich are world class.
Maybe you should ask the recruiting team at law firms in the jurisdiction in which you wish to practice and live.
Good luck with it.
Posted Nov 03, 2006 00:18
0
I recommend the llm external on UoL as other llms(full time or part time)for someone who already deal with law. That what I needed from the llm was the knowledge of the subject not social life on the university nor training of my speaking skills. If you on llm you had to study law before and that should be the place where you should gain all those skills. LLM is a very professional degree and you have to study, study and study - this is not a ground school. I highly recommend external program(I could't go full time because I am full time employed but I needed the degree) and my firm was fully satisfied with that degree. So think first if you really need it and I think University of London LLM is one of the top in the world so it doesn' really matter what form you are going to choose. You have to mostly study by yourself on all kind of llm and you take the same exams and if you need to talk to someone you can go on chat or contact the Uni.
I recommend the llm external on UoL as other llms(full time or part time)for someone who already deal with law. That what I needed from the llm was the knowledge of the subject not social life on the university nor training of my speaking skills. If you on llm you had to study law before and that should be the place where you should gain all those skills. LLM is a very professional degree and you have to study, study and study - this is not a ground school. I highly recommend external program(I could't go full time because I am full time employed but I needed the degree) and my firm was fully satisfied with that degree. So think first if you really need it and I think University of London LLM is one of the top in the world so it doesn' really matter what form you are going to choose. You have to mostly study by yourself on all kind of llm and you take the same exams and if you need to talk to someone you can go on chat or contact the Uni.
Posted Nov 03, 2006 00:31
0
all materials included and the program is very well prepared!!!
all materials included and the program is very well prepared!!!
Posted Nov 08, 2006 20:23
0
Some interesting points raised in the above post, which I am keen to comment on and hopefully bring the discussion round in later posts to directly answer the original poster's (OP's) start on the thread.
Hello,
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience".
Distance learning is fast becoming the choice of professionals who cannot afford to lose a year from the career, but will happily dedicate out of office hours for 2 or 3 years to their education. Students enrolled at The University of Edinburgh, School of Law's LLM via distance learning are not concerned with the "overseas experience" for one reason or another. What they have in common is a thirst for the knowledge and skills on offer (see below).
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc.
Studying via distance learning does not preclude you from having a life outside your studies! You don't enter a social void because your studies are delivered via the Internet.
Consider too that on-campus studiy is rapidly evolving to make use of the same technology in use for distance learning. Technology is changing on-campus studies so much so that many students are only seen on-campus for a few hours per week, and conducting the remainder of their research at home via the Internet and their instutions online research resources.
As for no human contact during class time? Well, perhaps physical proximity is difficult for distance learning, yes. But over 70,000 words were written in debate and discussion for one subject on the distance learning LLM here between the students and tutors! That's a lot of connections being made, even if it is all in a virtual world. That's a working example from the programme organisers of the LL.M here at the University of Edinburgh who are of mind that a "taught" LL.M programme is a taught LL.M programme whether delivered on-campus or online. Just by replacing the classroom with a monitor does not lessen the requirement for interaction with your class and tutors in order to gain a valuable education.
This level of interaction may be not be true in some distance learning LLMs which can be considered "content-heavy, contact-light". If you find one like that, you'll be offered a semester or a year's worth of material in the mail and told to return later with three essays and a dissertation, but I'd be hard pressed to find an real life example of this approach, but I'm sure it suits some prospective distance learning more so than other approaches.
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like.
There are few countries in the world who do not recognise a distance learning LL.M via distance learning via one form or another. Mostly a lack of recognisiton is due to a requirement for programmes accessible within country borders to be affiliated with local academic partners, or a programme not yet having gone through official accreditation channels.
In every other case, so many students participating in distance learning LLM programmes in my experience are already at relatively senior positions in their profession. Most of the skills you highlight have been long-since mastered by them. For these students it's all about the education, the knowledge and the mastery of a specialised subject.
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge.
An online LL.M will develop exactly the kind of transferable skills one might expect: Online research skills; online ettiquette; group management over international timezones and collaborative working via the Internet; online legal research; written language skills; and presentation skills are the first few I can easily think of.
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON.
Perhaps for thosewho are considering an LL.M having immediately concluded undergraduate education in law the experience of living and learning in a new place is a factor for prospective employers. Imagine though if you were in your interview and you could say that you'd been working full-time in a law firm whilst completing your LL.M? I'm sure a prospective employer would be more than impressed with any candidate able to demonstrate such a level of commitment and ambition! Distance learning makes this possible of course.
Some interesting points raised in the above post, which I am keen to comment on and hopefully bring the discussion round in later posts to directly answer the original poster's (OP's) start on the thread.
<blockquote>Hello,
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience". </blockquote>
Distance learning is fast becoming the choice of professionals who cannot afford to lose a year from the career, but will happily dedicate out of office hours for 2 or 3 years to their education. Students enrolled at The University of Edinburgh, School of Law's LLM via distance learning are not concerned with the "overseas experience" for one reason or another. What they have in common is a thirst for the knowledge and skills on offer (see below).
<blockquote>
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc. </blockquote>
Studying via distance learning does not preclude you from having a life outside your studies! You don't enter a social void because your studies are delivered via the Internet.
Consider too that on-campus studiy is rapidly evolving to make use of the same technology in use for distance learning. Technology is changing on-campus studies so much so that many students are only seen on-campus for a few hours per week, and conducting the remainder of their research at home via the Internet and their instutions online research resources.
As for no human contact during class time? Well, perhaps physical proximity is difficult for distance learning, yes. But over 70,000 words were written in debate and discussion for one subject on the distance learning LLM here between the students and tutors! That's a lot of connections being made, even if it is all in a virtual world. That's a working example from the programme organisers of the LL.M here at the University of Edinburgh who are of mind that a "taught" LL.M programme is a taught LL.M programme whether delivered on-campus or online. Just by replacing the classroom with a monitor does not lessen the requirement for interaction with your class and tutors in order to gain a valuable education.
This level of interaction may be not be true in some distance learning LLMs which can be considered "content-heavy, contact-light". If you find one like that, you'll be offered a semester or a year's worth of material in the mail and told to return later with three essays and a dissertation, but I'd be hard pressed to find an real life example of this approach, but I'm sure it suits some prospective distance learning more so than other approaches.
<blockquote>
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like. </blockquote>
There are few countries in the world who do not recognise a distance learning LL.M via distance learning via one form or another. Mostly a lack of recognisiton is due to a requirement for programmes accessible within country borders to be affiliated with local academic partners, or a programme not yet having gone through official accreditation channels.
In every other case, so many students participating in distance learning LLM programmes in my experience are already at relatively senior positions in their profession. Most of the skills you highlight have been long-since mastered by them. For these students it's all about the education, the knowledge and the mastery of a specialised subject.
<blockquote>
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge. </blockquote>
An online LL.M will develop exactly the kind of transferable skills one might expect: Online research skills; online ettiquette; group management over international timezones and collaborative working via the Internet; online legal research; written language skills; and presentation skills are the first few I can easily think of.
<blockquote>
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON. </blockquote>
Perhaps for thosewho are considering an LL.M having immediately concluded undergraduate education in law the experience of living and learning in a new place is a factor for prospective employers. Imagine though if you were in your interview and you could say that you'd been working full-time in a law firm whilst completing your LL.M? I'm sure a prospective employer would be more than impressed with any candidate able to demonstrate such a level of commitment and ambition! Distance learning makes this possible of course.
<blockquote>Hello,
Just my 2 cents. I think the "value" associated with an LLM abroad is the "international experience" gained. So, a degree done via distance learning will not be as appealing as a regular LLM because it does not develop such "international experience". </blockquote>
Distance learning is fast becoming the choice of professionals who cannot afford to lose a year from the career, but will happily dedicate out of office hours for 2 or 3 years to their education. Students enrolled at The University of Edinburgh, School of Law's LLM via distance learning are not concerned with the "overseas experience" for one reason or another. What they have in common is a thirst for the knowledge and skills on offer (see below).
<blockquote>
So too, a distance learning degree doe snot provide human contact which is, I feel, integral to developing the necessary skills that are deemed "valuable" to law firms, law faculties, government departments etc. </blockquote>
Studying via distance learning does not preclude you from having a life outside your studies! You don't enter a social void because your studies are delivered via the Internet.
Consider too that on-campus studiy is rapidly evolving to make use of the same technology in use for distance learning. Technology is changing on-campus studies so much so that many students are only seen on-campus for a few hours per week, and conducting the remainder of their research at home via the Internet and their instutions online research resources.
As for no human contact during class time? Well, perhaps physical proximity is difficult for distance learning, yes. But over 70,000 words were written in debate and discussion for one subject on the distance learning LLM here between the students and tutors! That's a lot of connections being made, even if it is all in a virtual world. That's a working example from the programme organisers of the LL.M here at the University of Edinburgh who are of mind that a "taught" LL.M programme is a taught LL.M programme whether delivered on-campus or online. Just by replacing the classroom with a monitor does not lessen the requirement for interaction with your class and tutors in order to gain a valuable education.
This level of interaction may be not be true in some distance learning LLMs which can be considered "content-heavy, contact-light". If you find one like that, you'll be offered a semester or a year's worth of material in the mail and told to return later with three essays and a dissertation, but I'd be hard pressed to find an real life example of this approach, but I'm sure it suits some prospective distance learning more so than other approaches.
<blockquote>
I think any distance learning degree will be regarded with suspicion because half the benefit of an LLM are the residual skills gained in the course of learning - communication, cultural, advocacy, and the like. </blockquote>
There are few countries in the world who do not recognise a distance learning LL.M via distance learning via one form or another. Mostly a lack of recognisiton is due to a requirement for programmes accessible within country borders to be affiliated with local academic partners, or a programme not yet having gone through official accreditation channels.
In every other case, so many students participating in distance learning LLM programmes in my experience are already at relatively senior positions in their profession. Most of the skills you highlight have been long-since mastered by them. For these students it's all about the education, the knowledge and the mastery of a specialised subject.
<blockquote>
So, I think the LLM will be regarded as something that is done online and develops no discernable skills but, rather, knowledge. </blockquote>
An online LL.M will develop exactly the kind of transferable skills one might expect: Online research skills; online ettiquette; group management over international timezones and collaborative working via the Internet; online legal research; written language skills; and presentation skills are the first few I can easily think of.
<blockquote>
Apart from that, when you get the LLM, you will cite it as "LLM (Lon)" on your CV or credentials regardless of whether you did it via distance learning. BUT, inevitably, an employer will ask you: "how was London?". The appeal with an LLM from LONDON is the experience gained living and learning in LONDON. </blockquote>
Perhaps for thosewho are considering an LL.M having immediately concluded undergraduate education in law the experience of living and learning in a new place is a factor for prospective employers. Imagine though if you were in your interview and you could say that you'd been working full-time in a law firm whilst completing your LL.M? I'm sure a prospective employer would be more than impressed with any candidate able to demonstrate such a level of commitment and ambition! Distance learning makes this possible of course.
Posted Nov 10, 2006 21:34
0
I just want to express my thanks to the person who defended the distance-learning LLM. I am also considering an LLM but was concerned about how legitimate it would seem if done over the internet, even offered by a very reputable institution. A benefit of your posting, besides making me feel better, is giving me and others ways to not defend our decisions (which would only make it sound like we might agree that this particular approach to learning was not optimal) but to champion distance learning as a way to gain valuable skills (group management over international timezones and collaborative working via the Internet) that are not aquired by conventional educations, and demonstrate other valuable qualities such as (as you expressed) committment, time-management, ambition (which may be better demonstrated when the education is coupled with a lack of the "fun" that comes with the school enviroment -- especially when travel is involved.
I just want to express my thanks to the person who defended the distance-learning LLM. I am also considering an LLM but was concerned about how legitimate it would seem if done over the internet, even offered by a very reputable institution. A benefit of your posting, besides making me feel better, is giving me and others ways to not defend our decisions (which would only make it sound like we might agree that this particular approach to learning was not optimal) but to champion distance learning as a way to gain valuable skills (group management over international timezones and collaborative working via the Internet) that are not aquired by conventional educations, and demonstrate other valuable qualities such as (as you expressed) committment, time-management, ambition (which may be better demonstrated when the education is coupled with a lack of the "fun" that comes with the school enviroment -- especially when travel is involved.
Posted Nov 13, 2006 11:20
0
On the up side, undertakning LLM in computers and technology or IP law online may actually be deemed an advantage. You are learning via the medium of your subject area!
No doubt an LLM from London or Edinburgh would look fantastic, irrespective of whether it is done online or not.
I was only giving my opinion as a 22 year old undergraduate. No doubt more experienced people may have a different perspective.
Some thing I am told, at my age, is to gain experience that makes me stand out from other applicants. Overseas study is a great way of doing this. However, if you already have an established career, then everything I said above is not very suitable to your postgraduate "education". At my age, "education" involves those skills many of you already possess through both life experience and legal practice.
I think distance learning is worth considering "if" you are not looking for the adventure.
All the best
On the up side, undertakning LLM in computers and technology or IP law online may actually be deemed an advantage. You are learning via the medium of your subject area!
No doubt an LLM from London or Edinburgh would look fantastic, irrespective of whether it is done online or not.
I was only giving my opinion as a 22 year old undergraduate. No doubt more experienced people may have a different perspective.
Some thing I am told, at my age, is to gain experience that makes me stand out from other applicants. Overseas study is a great way of doing this. However, if you already have an established career, then everything I said above is not very suitable to your postgraduate "education". At my age, "education" involves those skills many of you already possess through both life experience and legal practice.
I think distance learning is worth considering "if" you are not looking for the adventure.
All the best
No doubt an LLM from London or Edinburgh would look fantastic, irrespective of whether it is done online or not.
I was only giving my opinion as a 22 year old undergraduate. No doubt more experienced people may have a different perspective.
Some thing I am told, at my age, is to gain experience that makes me stand out from other applicants. Overseas study is a great way of doing this. However, if you already have an established career, then everything I said above is not very suitable to your postgraduate "education". At my age, "education" involves those skills many of you already possess through both life experience and legal practice.
I think distance learning is worth considering "if" you are not looking for the adventure.
All the best
Posted Nov 13, 2006 15:43
0
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and opinions regarding the UoLondon distance-learning programme (or the method of study in general). I agree that this way is suitable for those who (for whatever reason - current employment, family, etc.) are unable to go abroad personally for a year or two (like myself).
No doubt the latter option would be the better one for a couple of reasons (I spent one year in the UK during my undergraduate studies and it was no doubt a great experience for me personally and from a professional point of view).
Has anyone of you gone through this specific programme already? Or do you know ways of contacting people who have done so?
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and opinions regarding the UoLondon distance-learning programme (or the method of study in general). I agree that this way is suitable for those who (for whatever reason - current employment, family, etc.) are unable to go abroad personally for a year or two (like myself).
No doubt the latter option would be the better one for a couple of reasons (I spent one year in the UK during my undergraduate studies and it was no doubt a great experience for me personally and from a professional point of view).
Has anyone of you gone through this specific programme already? Or do you know ways of contacting people who have done so?
No doubt the latter option would be the better one for a couple of reasons (I spent one year in the UK during my undergraduate studies and it was no doubt a great experience for me personally and from a professional point of view).
Has anyone of you gone through this specific programme already? Or do you know ways of contacting people who have done so?
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