not sure if anyone can help but ill give it a shot.

im Irish and i just finished my LLb undergrad in Dublin. i was seriously considering the international LLM in La Trobe with a view of possibly trying to practice in Aus afterward.. i've been trying to figure out what one needs to qualify as a Lawyer in Aus if you are an International student ??

I only seem to go around in circles as to what qualifications are needed...

do you have to be a qualified lawyer in your own country first or can you train in Aus ??? and How does one go about it??

Does it take long and are oversees LLB excepted by Victoria state ??

i would really, really love to know what i need and i would be greatful for and advice anyone might have???

Cheers,

Hi Rob,

I am not sure if you have got a reply to your query yet but i have tried to help you out.

For foreign practitioners, you will have to get your LLB assessed by the relevant State authorities. For some States the Universities have authority to assess it while the others are done by the Legal Practitioners Board.

Upon assessment, they will tell you what requirements you will need to complete in order to fulfill the 'academic' requirements for admission in Australia. Thereafter, you will also have to satisfy a 'practical' component. This can either be completed 1 year with a Law Firm (Clerkship) or if you are unsuccessful you can pay and complete it over 6 months at Monash University in Victoria (or other providers). If you have some work experience or done some practical legal training in Dublin, again this can be assessed on a case-by-case basis by the relevant authorities. They will then tell you what 'practical' requirements you need to complete in order to be eligible for practise in Victoria. Once admitted in Victoria, you will be able to practise throughout Australia.

As for the LLM with La Trobe, I am not too familiar with that aspect. As far as I have heard, the University allows you to complete some courses which you require to satisfy 'academic' requirements for admission into australia within your LLM. This will be dependant on the University's LLM Course Rules and you will have to check it out with the University.

My advice would be to check out how many courses you require for admission prior to deciding your LLM. Some Universities like Monash University allows you to gain a LLM by completing only 4 courses if you do the 'Practical' component with them.

Hope this helps! Feel free to drop me a message if you need more clarifications.


Best Regards
Greg

Hi,

I have a UK LLB and an LLM in International Human Rights Law from the UK. I am hoping to work in law in Australia - do you have any advice for me?

Thank you! :-)

Hi Stargirlred,

I have tried to include some general information that will be useful to you.

First, you have to decide which state you want to work in. Although once you are admitted in one State (e.g. Melbourne or Queensland) you are able to practise throughout Australia, identifying the State will help you narrow down the University choices available to you.

Second, after deciding the State, you will then have to identify the University you want to attend. I know that some States have a single body assessing overseas qualification while some do not. For example, if you want to study in Melbourne, the Law Institute will be the assessing authority (i am unsure on this aspect). If you want to study in Queensland, then individual Universities are authorised to assess the courses you are required to take. The outcome might variate a little from each University to each University - I have heard cases whereby students from UK are required to complete different amount of subjects.

Also, at the same time, you might want to look into whether you want to undertake graduate classes with Juris Doctor students or do not mind undertaking undergraduate classes with Bachelor of Laws students. You can either undertake your courses on a non-award basis (i.e. you won't get any qualifications) or you will have to look for a LLM course which allows you to select the relevant courses which you require for admission (i think the La Trobe LLM allows you to do so). I suspect that you will not be required to complete many subjects so perhaps you can do the subjects you require under the LLM and then seek for credit for the remainder based on your LLM in International Human RIghts - this will be dependant on the University's credit rules (You must note that some Universities here do not give credit for completed awards as they say that it is 'double tipping' but most award some credit).

As far as I am aware, your option is pretty much limited to La Trobe if you want an award out of your 'conversion' studies. Alternatively, you can consider completing a JD in Australia with University of Melbourne or Monash University but that would require around 2 years (if maximum credit is given for this 3 year program).

Hope this helps! Let me know if you need further information.

Thank you for your reply!

Do you have any idea about the cost and duration of taking the additional courses? Also, do you know how many courses UK LLB graduates are normally required to take? I am only aware of Federal Constitutional Law as a definate!

Thank you :-)

Hey,

I can only give you my perspective from my personal experience so it might be wrong. I am in Queensland and the Universities are the assessing authorities.

The courses required for UK students that I have met varied. You are right that the most definite would be Federal Constitutional Law. However, some have been asked to complete Administrative Law and some have been asked to complete Company Law. These are basically the more 'popular' courses that are completed by UK students.

In terms of cost, they are around 2000 each for international students. Depending on availability, you can finish up in 6 months? Each course is offered only once a year so you might being in the situation where Constitutional Law is offered in first half of the year and Administrative Law being offered in the second half of the year - thus taking you 1 year. However, there is nothing stopping you from resolving this issue by doing subjects on a non-award basis at two different universities at the same time! :)

Let me know if you need anything else and I will try to help.

Regards
Greg

When you say 2000 - do you mean sterling or Aus dollars? Queensland would be my choice, because my husband is a marine biologist with tropical marine biology as his specialism, so he would like to be based in Queensland. Do you know if John Cooks offer the courses I would need?
Also, are there any sponsorship options? And finally, obviously you can get a student visa to take the courses, but do you know how this increases your chances of getting another visa to continue work after the course- from what I understand you need 2 years Aus study to achieve a visa without work experience - it would be a shame to do the course and then not be able to stay in Aus to look for work! Are there any options other than Employer Sponsored Temp Visa once the courses have been taken, do you know?

Sorry to pester you with queries!!

:-)

Hi there,

In relation to the studies at James Cook University this is the website you will have to look at --> http://www.jcu.edu.au/law/degrees/index.htm

Basically, cost fees are around $2000 AUD for International Students (per subject). However, do note that International Students required to do a Full-Time Load. For example, a classmate of mine only requires Constitutional Law but she has to complete 2 superfluous subjects (basically any course) to enable her enrolment to be Full-Time - this is a Government Policy. As such, you might want to get your qualifications assessed by Queensland authorities (this is done by Universities in Queensland) and plan your enrolment. See if JCU has all the subjects you require in 1 semester - if you require 2 subjects and they are delivered across two different semesters, you will have to take 4 superfluous courses to make your enrolment full time for the whole year.

Don't forget that you will also have to check with the Queensland Law Society to see what 'practical' requirements you have to fulfill before you can be admitted as a lawyer. The studies at JCU merely fulfills the 'Academic' requirements.

In relation to the issue on Visas, you are right that two years work experience or two years study in Australia is the only way to gain a permenant visa. I have heard of employers applying for a work visa on behalf but this is somewhat rare and unfrequent - the job market for lawyers in Australia is a little tight at the moment..

Again, I try my best to help if you have further queries. :)


Regards
Greg

Hi, Me again!

I'm persuing information on another option...

Is it possible to do the conversion courses over 2 years - in order to meet the 2 year study rule? I understand this would mean taking additional subjects to make the study 'full-time'. Also, you said that courses are 2000 Aus dollars (this is definately the amount for International students, not home students?), so to be full time do you take 3 courses in total - to make the full year, or do you need 6 courses (and thus 12,000 Aus dollars) to make it full-time for a year?

I understand the JD is a full time 2 year course, though from what I've read it is aimed at non-law students wanting to convert, rather than those with a legal background?

Finally, if coversion is completed in a year and then one moves on to the practical side, does the practical year count as being a student for the 2 year study rule?

Basically, I'm wondering what it would involve to convert my qualification and meet the 2 year rule, alongside how much such an endeavor would cost! (I would most likely be hoping to undertake this in Queensland).

Thank you for all your help!

Hey there,

I have tried to answer your questions - hope it is useful.

I remembered previously you mentioned that you are interested to study at JCU so my advice will be made on this assumption.

Firstly, i think that the option of completing a JD will be out because JCU does not offer a JD - it is only offered in selected universities in Australia (mostly at the top 10 ones). Also, in order to qualify for the '2 year rule' studies must be done in an AWARD program so Non-Award studies is out.

A quick surf through the JCU website indicate that they have two programs available that allow LAW Subjects to be studied: 1. LLB 2. GradDipLegalStudies.

The prices for 2008 are as follows:
LLB (Graduate): 13, 680AUD per year
GradDipLegStudies: 16,800AUD per year

For option 1, the LLB (Graduate) is primarily for graduates with a non-law degree and is 3 years. You will have to check with them if they are willing to accept you as you are a not a non-law graduate per se. If they are happy to accept you then I think there will be no issues getting 1 - 1.5 years of credit based on your UK LLB. Thereafter, you will have to complete 2 years worth of compulsory + electives. You will need to check with Australia Immigration if 3 subjects x 4 Semester satisfies the 2 year requirement or if they require 4 subjects x 4 Semesters. By having this information, you will then be able to apply for the right amount of prior learning credit. The law has recently changed to be really strict about this so I can't advise further on this aspect. Of course, the safest option would be to do 4 subjects x 4 semester but it has implications on costs. It is likely that they will exempt you from basic subjects like Contract Law, Tort etc so you will have to take electives in-lieu.

Alternatively, it would be the Graduate Diploma in Legal Studies which is 1 year. Again, you will have to check if its fine to do 3 subjects x 2 semesters or would you have to do 4 subjects x 2 semesters. Also, as it is primarily for non-law graduates, you have to check if you are allowed entry into this program. As the course is only 1 year, you can look at completing another masters which is 1 year - Australia allows a student to use multiple qualifications to meet the 2 year requirement. You might want to look at the JCU MBA program which is 1.5 years - check with them to see if they will be happy to give you 0.5 years of credit based on your UK LLM. Alternatively, there are other Masters on offer at JCU which might interest you.

With that said, i think you will be able to arrive at your best option by getting your LLB assessed by an Australian University. I am unsure if JCU has the authority to assess it but UQ does (http://www.law.uq.edu.au/evaluation-of-overseas-qualifications) - this can then be used for your JCU studies. Also, you will need to check with the Law Society of Queensland as to what 'practical' requirements do you have to fulfill in order to be admitted - most UK students dont need any additional practical component. However, if you do need a practical course, you will have to complete something elsewhere because JCU does not offer one. It is also only 0.5 years of study but most practical training providers give students the option of extending their studies by another 0.5 years to do make it 1 year, awarding an LLM to students who complete 4 additional subjects during the period. Also, check with Immigration if the 2 year requirement can be satisfied by 3 subjects x 4 semesters as it would determine your credit application.

Let me know if you need anything else!


Best Regards
Greg

Thanks once again for your detailed response- much appreciated.

I have looked at the immigration website and it would appear full-time enrollment is required - so 4 courses per term, for the study to meet the criteria - also if it needs to be for an award then the LLB seems the best option - like you said, apply for 1 year credit for my existing LLB and then take 2 years to complete the necessary subjects plus some extras.

I have looked at JCU and QU (I don't really mind which university I apply for, so long as it is costal - for my husband) and JCU is 13,680 but QU is 20,000 dollars (approx), with courses coming in around 2600 dollars each! Do prices generally fluctuate between universities? Is the Aus system very hierarchical, (like the US system) or does it not matter too much where I complete my qualification?

Obviously I wouldn't want to spend 2 years getting a qualification that was looked down on in the legal profression (especially when my UK qualification are from a well regarded Uni), however money is an issue and 7000 Aus dollars difference between courses is a huge amount!

I shall get my qualifications assessed I think with a view to starting a course in February 2008 - no time like the present!

I did like your idea about doing a masters though, for an additional year - do you think it would be possible to get 2 years credit for my UK LLB, or would that just be pushing it :D

I just read that the Law Department at JCU is qualified as an assessor of overseas qualifications - so that's good :-)

Financing Query

On the application form for a student visa it says you have to state you have enough money. My husband intends to work his full-enititlement on hours and I shall work too in order to fund our stay in Aus, which I assume is allowed since they let you work. They do not ask for documentation to prove anything - is it ok to sign the declaration - what do people normally do?

Thanks! :-)

Hi There :)

Again, these are my responses:

Financing Query - As far as I am aware, UK is under Category 1 Assessment Level for Visas and so you do not have to attach any documentary evidence of financial capability - you merely have to sign a declaration on your Visa Application. However, do note that there is a condition attached to your student visa that you can only work for 20 hours per week during Semesters (and unlimited during holidays).

Assessment of Qualifications - Although you can get your qualifications assessed at any university in Queensland, it is best you get it assessed at the one you seek to attend so they will know your situation best. However, there is a possibility that assessment results might differ slightly from university to university but i guess this is not important in your circumstances because you are going to do 2 years worth of subjects anyway!

Law School Programs - there are two versions of the JCU LLB. One would be a 4 year for high school graduates and the other is a 3 year for non-law graduates. If you were to apply for the latter, you only require 1 year of credits based on your UK LLB and i am quite confident you will get it. As a general rule Australian Universities can give credit up to 50% of the original course duration (i.e. 4 year degrees can be credited with 2 years of credit (max); 3 year degrees can be credited with 1.5 years of credit (max)) .

The top 3 universities for Law in Queensland are University of Queensland, Queensland University of Technology and Griffith University. Most law firms in Brisbane (the capital of Queensland) employ their staff from these three law schools. If, however, you are intended to work in rural areas , then i think a JCU degree will suffice (I am unsure as to the employment practises out of Brisbane). If you are seeking a job in a top tier law firm then having a degree from University of Queensland would of course secure you an interview. However, the choice of University might not matter in your circumstances because you already have a LLB and LLM from UK which distinguishes you from the crowd. I guess only you will have the answer to this question!
If you are worried that a LLB at JCU would not be that prestigious but have constraints in terms of fees, why not consider doing the GradDipLegStudies and a Masters with JCU to get a higher qualification? Do keep in mind that most UK students merely complete 2 -4 subjects on a Non-Award basis to get qualified in Australia and do not really have much difficulty in getting a job (but these people have work experience).

Hope this helps! :) Again, happy to help further.

Best,
Greg

Anyone wanting to requalify/work in Australia shoudl also consider the immigartion/visa rules very carefully. Law is NOT a favoured profession by Immigration (i.e. there are lots of law grads in Australia, so you won't get any bonus points in the bizarre points system that Australia uses for visas. That said, it will be easier to migrate if you have a minimum number of years (three??) post-qualification work experience in your home country. Also, as in most countries, student visas are not given with the the view that the person will remain and work in the country afterwards. For more info (and before thinking about spending, have a look at http://www.immi.gov.au/immigration.htm

Thanks once again Gregory - helpful as always :-)

I do have concerns about not going to a top Aus uni - especially given that I do not think I'd have any problem getting into them with my UK grades. However, this said, money is an issue and the difference in fees is great between QU and JCU. Also, JCU is better situated for my husband's profession - so I think my decision is made for me in this respect! I will definately consider the option you mention though.

I'm sure I'll bug you with more questions at some point - thank you for your patience!

Charlie :-)

Hi!

This might seem like an obvious question, but what does one do to become a solicitor/barrister in Australia after coverting UK LLB to Aus LLB?
In the UK you have to apply for either the LPC (Law Practitioners Course - for Solicitors) or the BVC (Bar Vocational Course - for barristers) and complete a years study (at considerable expense). Then if you want to be a solicitor you must apply for a training contract with a firm and work your way up from there, to be a barrister you must apply for pupillage with a chamber and then hope and pray they take you on after that! It's a tricky old business!

Is it similar in Australia (Queensland in particular)?

Also, would studying for the Aus equivilent of an LPC/ BVC (if this is how it works) count as a years study - would you get a student visa for it?

Finally, if you secure a training contract/ pupillage (or the equivilant) does this count as a full-time job for visa purposes (do you know?)

Basically, I'm curious about what happens once the additional courses have been taken - how does one become a practicing lawyer?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Charlie :-)

Hi Charlie,

Good to hear from you! :)

Tried to help you out from my knowledge.

1. How to become a solicitor / barrister in Australia.
The route to becoming a solicitor / barrister is different in Australia. Depending on your choice, this is what you will have to do.

If you want to be a Barrister:
Apart from getting your LLB assessed by JCU or UQ, you will have to enquire with Queensland Law Society as to what 'practical legal training' requirements you will have to satisfy in order to practise in Australia. At a bare minimum, I anticipate that you would be required to complete Trust Accounting and Professional Conduct (Ethics). This can be done either online or face-to-face depending on where you are situated. If you are in Brisbane, then Queensland University of Technology (www.qut.edu.au) and Griffith University (www.gu.edu.au) allow you to do it face-to-face. Alternatively, College of Law (www.collaw.edu.au) lets you do it online or you can do it with Australian National University (www.anu.edu.au) - those offered by Universities go under the name Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice (you can do individual subjects).

Once you have fulfilled both requirements, you can apply to the Supreme Court for admission as a legal practitioner.

If you want to become a Barrister, you have to undertake a 3-week Bar Practice Course at Queensland University of Technology. Thereafter, you have to undertake 1 year of pupillage under a Barrister.

If you want to become a Solicitor:
Option 1: You can complete a year of training with a law firm - frequently termed as Graduate Recruitment over here. I am pretty sure this will be counted towards full-time job for visa purposes but it would be difficult to get a law firm to apply for a work visa for you. These firms usually have 'in-house' legal training and they prefer graduate who need to complete all aspects of practical training.

Option 2: You can embark on the practical legal training with a provider as I have outlined above in the part about becoming a Barrister (just ignore the part on Bar Practice Course).

---
Also, to become a Barrister, I think you can eliminate the need to do the Practical Legal Training if you decide to do 1 year of training at a law firm and thereafter doing the Bar Practice Course + 1 year of pupillage.

I am unsure as to whether pupillage counts towards full-time job for visa purposes. However, i think the route of undertaking a 1 year training through Graduate Recruitment does count.

I hope this limited information I am able to provide is useful - I will only be gaining admission in early 2008 so I am not really familiar with it. Some aspects might not be accurate but the geist of the system should be somewhat illustrated.


Regards
Greg

Thanks Greg :-)

It seems easier than in the UK - in the UK (I have heard) only 5% of law students actually become barristers!

I may see if I can undertake the 'practical' element whilst I am doing my 2 years study - do you think this likely?

Also - once I have undertaken the 2 years of study I can get a temporary graduate visa for 18 months - so that would allow me the time to undertake any training with a law firm (then they would not need to sponsor me) and thereafter I would meet the permanent visa criteria as I would be qualified at last - yey!

I'll see what information I can find on the internet about becoming a lawyer in Queensland :-)

Do you mean you are gaining admission to the Law Society or to Uni?

Thanks for your help :-)

hi Greg- hope you can answer my queries-
i have been accepted by la trobe uni for masters in law- i was just reading an earlier message which said that lawyers are not in high demand and that it might not fare well at point of immigration. My masters course runs for 2 years as i start with a graduate diploma which u correctly stated as having a duration of 1 year in itself.
please let me know if there is a good chance of applying and gettting PR after the 2 years of masters at uni? i'm not too keen on practicing although i am a qualified attorney-at-law in my home country. Are there many avenues a postgraduate can take after a masters course in law in australia? And if so, will there be a good chance that i can stay on after my two year study programme and apply PR?
thanks very much for your help!