Hi Charlie,

I am going to gain admission into the Law Society early next year :) Finishing my JD this November!

Your idea to get the temporary visa after 2 years of study is a good idea. One thing to bear in mind is that some PLT providers insist that you only have 1 or 2 outstanding 'compulsory subjects' (e.g. constitutional law etc) before they allow you to undertake practical training - that should not be a problem for you though. However, the Law Society MIGHT require you to take up some work experience - I am not sure on this aspect but it might be a possible requirement as you have not practised in UK. Over here, depending on your provider for the practical program, students have to undertake practical training have to undertake a minimum of 20 days to 80 days work experience (depending on your option) - I am unsure what will the Law Society's assessment be.

Also, note that doing the practical program at a University would mean that most top tier law firms would NOT take you on for their 1 year Graduate Recruitment because you would be a qualified lawyer by then (and not a trainee). However, there would be a wide range of employment opportunities for you at mid tier and small law firms who do not provider in-house practical training and these firms usually hire qualified lawyers directly. Accordingly, your pay would also be higher since you are qualified rather than undertaking a training year.

In relation to price and flexibility of the practical legal training, College of Law (www.collaw.edu.au) would be the cheapest but require you to undertake assessments face-to-face in Brisbane. However, the Australian National University's (Top 3 Uni in Australia - this is debatable but its definitely top 5) (www.law.anu.edu.au) provides a more flexible online program.

Regards
Greg

Hi Legallbrunette,

I am sorry I can't really advise because I am not really familiar with La Trobe's courses - I am based in Queensland.

As far as I am aware, if you meet the points test (www.immi.gov.au) for the Skilled Migration Visa, it is highly likely they will grant the visa to you. Thus, your best bet would be to do a self-assessment on the website to see if your Age, Qualifications, English Skills etc allow you to meet the minimum threshold to be assessed for the Visa. If it does not, you can look at applying for a Temporary Graduate Visa which allows people to seek for jobs and thereafter apply for a PR Visa.

The other guy who wrote in this forum was somewhat right that the law market is a little tight in Australia. With that said, if you are not picky in finding a job then you should be fine - there are plenty of legal-related jobs on offer by the Government. There are also jobs at mid-tier and smaller law firms. The main bulk of competition is at the top tier firm so it would be difficult getting a job there. I have also heard that there are more job opportunities in Victoria (where La Trobe is) than in Queensland but I am not sure to what extent is this statement true.

(I might be wrong on this) Your PR Visa application will be assessed based on your points test and not your occupation per se (however your occupation gives you points). Therefore, being a lawyer or an accountant makes no difference as both gives you the maximum of 60 points. The only requirement is that your nominated occupation must be relevant to your studies in Australia - which is the case for you.

In relation to postgraduate studies, I think your LLM would be more valuable if intend to look for a job practising law. Of course, it would be highly desirable if you were to go into consulting etc - all depends on your intended occupation.

Sorry if you don't find this reply really useful - can't really help you out as I do not know how you fare on the points test stipulated by the Australian Government.

Let me know if I can help you further after you have done a self-assessment!

Regards
Greg

Congratulations on your entry to the Law Society - well done!

Thanks again for all your help :-)

As a side matter - my UK LLM is in International Human Rights law from the University of Essex (the No.1 institution for Human Rights) and I received a distinction. I understand that I may have to be flexible in my career choices if I want to work in Australia, that said I did specialise in Refugee Law and Indigenous Rights. Do you have any knowledge of the Human Rights scene in Queensland/ Australia - are there positions available in this field?

Thanks again, Charlie :-)

Hey Charlie,

Sorry can't help you out with that one - Unfortunately, I am clueless about the opportunities available for Human Rights Law over here.


Regards
Greg

Not to worry - thanks anyway :-)

Do you know what areas of law are popular? It would be worth taking some 'safe-bet' courses whilst I'm completing my studies!

:-)

I think the usual corporate/commercial would be fine - afterall this is where all the money is at! Perhaps a surf through the top tier websites would give you some perspective.

Google the following firms when you are free (not in rank):
Minter Ellison
Allen Arthur Robinson
Clayton Utz
FreeHills
Blake Dawson Waldron

Also, I have heard that enrolment in Tax courses are always high but would depends if you like it - I have only taken basic Tax Law and have no intentions to undertake any advance subjects! :)

Regards
Greg

Thanks again!

I guess it's about finding that balance between what you love and what will actually get you a half-decent job!

;-)

Thanks Greg! :-) no, that was very helpful actually... :-)
thanks again!

Hello,

Having been travelling in Australia, I have decided that I would one day like to live and work there. (Because its awsome - obvious!)

I am in second year studying for an LLB Law degree at an English university.

Stargirl, speaking from your own experience, do you have any advice that you could give me that could help me qualify to practice law as a solicitor in Australia in the most time saving route?

It won't be long before i'll be applying for a place on the Legal Practice Course. Will doing the LPC help me or will I be just wasting a year?

Sydney would be my chosen destination but i'm open to anywhere,

Also, anyone else please feel free to advise...

Hi!

I would suggest doing your LPC and then getting 1 years work experience as a lawyer - once you are a qualified UK lawyer with 1 years work experience then you are eligible for the Working migration visa - bingo - you legally live in Aus!

For my part, we wanted to live in Aus asap and didn't want to hang in the UK whilst I got my LPC and did a years work, so I have enrolled at uni in Queensland. I have arranged with the uni to complete the Australian LLB in 2 years - getting credit for my existing LLB for the rest of the course. I have had my qualifications assessed and am taking all the courses needed to qualify in Aus, alongside other interesting ones to fill the 2 years. 2 Years full-time study in Aus, leading to a qualification is a visa criteria (instead of 1 years work experience). Afterwards you are eligible to have a Temp Graduate Visa' allowing you 18 months to get qualified (LPC equivilant in Queensland costs 4k sterling and can be done on-line and takes 6 months - could be done parrallel to 2 years study to save time...). After you are a qualified solicitor then you can get the proper residency visa. I am going to JCU in Townsville (also in Cairnes) because the law department is pretty good and they charge the cheapest fees in Aus. This is all for Queensland - but should be similar elsewhere. Also, once you are a qualified queensland lawyer, you can practice Australia wide!

I hope that all helps! :-)

Yes it does, thankyou stargirl.

Because it is necessary to complete a 2 year training contract after the LPC in order to fully qualify as a solicitor, when you suggested that I do my LPC and get 1 years work experience as a lawyer -

Does this mean doing the LPC, then completing the necessary two year training contract with a law firm to qualify, to then go on to get 1 years work experience as a fully qualified solicitor? (which would take 4 years)

or

Do you mean I could do the LPC and then get the years work experience from working in a law firm as a trainee solicitor, from a training contract? (which would take less)

Also, what do you know about the LLM Law for international law students at La Trobe uni? and would you recommend it?

I'm not hugely bothered about differences in fees betweeen aus universities, I would be more concerned with finding the right one for my situation.


Any further help or advice would again be greatly appreciated,

Regards,
Rob

Rob,

Without following through all the posts, i think i might be able to help. Am i right to understand what is the fastest way to gain admission into Australia as a legal practitioner after your have completed your LLB?

If that is your question, you shld look into completing 'conversion' courses in Austraila immediately after graduating from your LLB. In particular, UK students are usually only required to complete Australian Constitutional Law and Australian Administrative Law (some students have to complete Company Law but this is rare). By completing these 2 courses, you will meet the academic requirement for admission to practice.

Thereafter, you can complete a Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice to meet the 'practical requirements' for practice. This would take 6 mths and some providers like the Australian National University would allow you to commence it from UK right this moment (online mode). This would also contribute towards 50% of a LLM degree from them.

Let me know if you would like more information on this :)


Cheers
Greg

Thanks Greg that was very helpful, and I would certainly like more information on that,

You are right in your understanding, i am particularly concerned as to what is the fastest way to gain admission into Australia as a legal practitioner after I have completed my LLB, this is because i am already 23 and i'm eager to make a career for myself. How do these 'conversion' courses differ from a 2 year LLM (eg: la trobe) ?

also since I will be starting my final year in Septmber, and will actually have compled my LLB 1 year from now, when should I be applying for these 'conversion' courses? So I can embark on one ASAP

Hi Rob,

These 'conversion' courses are basically subjects offered within a standard Australian LLB/JD degree. As you will already have a UK LLB degree, you will just sign up for these courses on a non-award basis - i.e. you undertake Australian Constitutional Law and Australian Administrative Law with LLB/JD students but just complete these subjects without the need to complete the remaining 20ish subjects. Of course, it will not lead you to any award but will enable you to satisfy the ACADEMIC REQUIREMENT for practise. These courses cannot be completed online while you are in UK so you will be on a student visa. In order for a student visa to be granted, you will have to be enrolled in 3 courses per semester so you might have to look into taking up an elective to fulfill your visa requirements (that was what most of my UK classmates did). Also, if you are looking to practise in Sydney, it is best if you drop the LPAB an email to make a general enquiry as to whether they can give you an indication as to what subjects you are required to undertake - this sometimes differ for UK LLB graduates.

You will also have to complete a PRACTICAL course to be admitted as a solicitor. The Australian National University (in Canberra) offers an online version of this course (www.law.anu.edu.au --> click on 'Legal Workshop'). Australian LLB students are usually permitted to complete this concurrently while completing their basic law degree in order to accelerate admission, however, I am unsure if this applies to overseas graduates as well. Regardless of when enrolment in this degree is open to you, you can complete 1 week of intensive courses on campus, then complete the remaining courses back at home in UK. The entire graduate diploma will take you around 4-5 months to complete - there is a 'legal practice experience' (australian version of 'training contract) component which ranges from 1 - 4 months and you can complete it in a UK firm if you so please. The completion of this diploma then entitles you to articulate into a LLM by just completing 4 (rather than 8) courses.

In my opinion, this should be the fastest way for you to gain admission into Australia and to gain a LLM qualification at the same time. The Australian National University is also one of the leading universities in Australia so the reputation is top-notch compared to the La Trobe 2 year LLM.

My limited understanding about the La Trobe LLM is that it is basically the same as 'conversion' courses in the sense that they allow you to count courses you complete with their LLB students into the degree - i.e. you attend the subejcts you require with the LLB students but they allow you to count towards their LLM degree. Regardless, Australian National University is ranked top 3 in Australia (sometimes equal first) while La Trobe is above or around rank 10.

Please, however, double-check with the relevant stakeholders as I might be wrong on some areas. :)


Cheers
Greg

Thanks Greg,

So am I right in the understanding that I would need to:

1. Complete the relevant academic requirements of australian undergrad law (Australian con & admin, and advised electives) to satisfy a legitimate 'conversion'.
2. Enrole onto and complete a 'Practical' graduate diploma (is this also called a practice management course?).
3. Complete the Australian version of the training contract with work within a law firm.


Supposing that overseas students could not run stages simultaneously and that I did indeed have to complete each stage after another, how long would a) each stage take? and b) everything on the whole take?

Also how would completion of these stages enable me to articulate an LLM? Because whilst qualifying as soon as possible is of particular interest to me, actually getting recognised award for my studyies is also of some interest.


Thanks for your patience Greg, i appreciate your help,

Rob

Hi Rob,

I have provided my reply in accordance to the 3 pointers you have listed.

1. You are right, the academic requirements you are required are usually termed 'conversion' courses by people but I do not think the bodies use that term officially. In order to determine the courses you have to undertake, you will have to send in your enquiries to the LPAB directly as I am unable to advise on that. Completing the courses they have advised will satisfy the academic requirements - the need for an elective or two is merely to fulfill your visa requirements to be studying for at least 3 courses a semester. Of course, if you are completing the remaining of your LLM requirements, then there will be no need to take electives which do not count towards any award.

2 The practical requirements would require you to either complete a 0.5 years Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice with a University OR embark on a 1-year clerkship with a top/middle tier law firm which offers this facility. The competition for the latter is extremely competitive and the chances of one getting it is unclear. It is term 'Practical Legal Training' course in Australia.

3. The Australian version of the 'training contract' is a requirement within the Graduate Diploma in Legal PRactice - i.e. you cannot graduate without completing it. Some providers have a fixed duration of 4 months whilst the Australian National University have a requirement ranging from 1 - 4 months. If you so decide to complete a shorter placement, then you will just have to add a few coursework subjects in-lieu. As far as I am aware, this is the only provider which is more generous in allowing students to complete international placements - i.e. you can complete your duration with a UK law firm.

Also, as mentioned in my earlier post, this program is online and usually taken concurrently by students who are completing their Australian LLB/JD degree. I am not sure what are the requirements in order for a UK student to undertake it concurrently but I suspect they might want you to have completed your 'Academic' requirements prior to commencing it but they might allow you to take selectd courses right now, you will have to enquire.

Also, completion of the Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice allows you to continue with a LLM from Australian National University. Once you have completed the diploma, you will be deemed to have completed 50% of their LLM so you will only have to complete 4 courses to be awarded with a LLM. It would be essential that the Legal Practice Diploma and LLM be completed at the same university because this arrangement is provided internally - note that there are only limited universities with this articulation arrangement as well.

Not forgetting, you should also look into how you can gain permanent residency to Australia because most law firms are only keen to hire people who have rights to work in Australia. At the moment, the requirement would be 2-year study in Australia but the fulfillment of this requirement would seem to run in direct contrary of your intentions to be admitted into practise as soon as possible!


Cheers
G

Wow - so much has been discussed! Though i'd put in my thoughts after a bit of research regarding getting the perm res visa...

1) Check out this link for QLD - http://www.qls.com.au/content/lwp/wcm/connect/QLS/Law+in+Qld/How+to+Become+a+solicitor/Required+Study+%26+Training

It would appear that all that is needed to meet the visa criteria (for the SOL listed job of Legal Practitioner - solicitor - 60 points) is the degree (and any additional courses) and the practical legal course. It does not mention any 'training contract' requirements for registration as a solicitor.

The sticking point for a UK graduate will be meeting the other visa criteria - ie - 2 years study in Aus (resulting in a qualification - not just random study!) or 1 years work experience in chosen profession.

I have taken the '2 years study in Aus' route as I had to study to 'convert' anyway - I've just added more electives and got my uni to agree to give me credit for my UK degree so I will get a full Aus LLB when i'm done.

Your best bet it to look at the immigration website www.immi.gov.au - everything is there - just need to look. The visa options for those who have studied in Aus are broader and you get extra points for the study if you meet certain criteria.

Given that the PLT can be undertaken at the same time as study, you could be ready to practice, with a residency visa in 2 years - to the best of my knowedge there is no criteria to have worked in the profession or done a training contract beyond the actual PLT.

Please let me know if this is wrong!

hope that helps!

One final point - I was horrified when I had my full LB hons 2:1 degree assessed my James Cook - they determined I had to do 9 additional subjects - don't be fooled into thinking you will only have to do admin & constitutional law!!

I have to do - admin, constitutional, company law, land law 1 & 2, commercial law, evidence, legal ethics and Civil proceedure!!!

(Perhaps this is a Queensland thing? Does it seem wrong to anyone out there?)

Hi Stargirl,

there is no training contract requirement for admission into Australia.

in relation to your assessment, i have heard that different universities in QLD usually provide different assessment outcomes. Applicants are able to rely upon the best assessment they obtain - i.e. you can get it assessed by UQ and then study for those equivalent subjects at JCU or QUT. Most of my UK classmates in law school did that :)


Cheers
G

Excellent - so it takes a bit less time to be a 'real lawyer' :D Also very good for visa nonsense.

I thought it was a bit mad. I still want to do 2 years for my visa, but i'd like to do more electives, rather than repeating subjects all the time! (like Land Law - that I'm doing now, which is practically the same!) If i get my qualifications assessed by UQ it'll cost an extra $200 though :-s

hmm...

Hello Gregory! I notice that you are doing law in Qld.
As I am an international student currently doing LLB in Qld, I have some questions about practising law in Australia/Brisbane after I graduate.

1. I hope I can get a PR after I graduate. Do you think I should do the PLT or the Trainee program after I graduate? For PLT, which institutions do you recommend? (I can do it in other states too!)

2. I am not sure about the PR application. Is it true that I can only apply the PR after completing the PLT course and be admitted as a solicitor or I can apply it as soon as I get my LLB? Do you have any tips about the PR application?

Thank you very much^^