Any personal experiences with the following universities?


capa

Hello. Apologies for the continued posts, I am trying to choose a "top 5" list and feel I can only do this with "local" European advice. I would highly appreciate any help and thank-you very much in advance for any advice. This is quite a hard decision!

Where possible, I would like to know:
1) Have you had any personal experiences with the following? Would you recommend any?
2) I know it is hard to "rank" European universities, but, is it possible to highlight which are more reputable, and, which are not as desireable, so to speak.
3) Would they differ in relation to entrance requirements? By this I mean, would they have different "standards" - which would be hardest to get into?
4) Which would you choose?
5) Would you add any others? (English LLM's only)
6) Would you consider any of the following Australian univesrities to be more "desireable"?

Okay, to the universities:
Catholic University Leuven
Leiden University
Maastricht University
Stockholm University
University of Amsterdam
University of Helsinki
University of Lund
University of Oslo
Uppsala University
Utrecht University

The Australian universities include the following:

Australian National University
University of Melbourne
Monash University
University of New South Wales
University of Sydney
University of Queensland

Again, thank-you very very much for any guidance and advice. I am unfamiliar with the general view towards the repututation of certain universities in Europe, and, also wonder whether any Australian universities are demed to be reputable in Europe.

Many thanks for any replies.

Hello. Apologies for the continued posts, I am trying to choose a "top 5" list and feel I can only do this with "local" European advice. I would highly appreciate any help and thank-you very much in advance for any advice. This is quite a hard decision!

Where possible, I would like to know:
1) Have you had any personal experiences with the following? Would you recommend any?
2) I know it is hard to "rank" European universities, but, is it possible to highlight which are more reputable, and, which are not as desireable, so to speak.
3) Would they differ in relation to entrance requirements? By this I mean, would they have different "standards" - which would be hardest to get into?
4) Which would you choose?
5) Would you add any others? (English LLM's only)
6) Would you consider any of the following Australian univesrities to be more "desireable"?

Okay, to the universities:
Catholic University Leuven
Leiden University
Maastricht University
Stockholm University
University of Amsterdam
University of Helsinki
University of Lund
University of Oslo
Uppsala University
Utrecht University

The Australian universities include the following:

Australian National University
University of Melbourne
Monash University
University of New South Wales
University of Sydney
University of Queensland

Again, thank-you very very much for any guidance and advice. I am unfamiliar with the general view towards the repututation of certain universities in Europe, and, also wonder whether any Australian universities are demed to be reputable in Europe.

Many thanks for any replies.
quote

Hello,

I will respond very quickly on your question for now but if I have some more time I will give more information.

I am a student of the university of Leuven and it is, in my modest opinion, a good university, also the one in Leiden and Utrecht.

Hello,

I will respond very quickly on your question for now but if I have some more time I will give more information.

I am a student of the university of Leuven and it is, in my modest opinion, a good university, also the one in Leiden and Utrecht.
quote
esha

You should first zero in the jurisdiction you want to practice in.., you should keep in mind that the jurisdiction in which you pursue your
LL.M. will ultimately be the jurisdiction in which you could practice...and then look at the rankings

You should first zero in the jurisdiction you want to practice in.., you should keep in mind that the jurisdiction in which you pursue your
LL.M. will ultimately be the jurisdiction in which you could practice...and then look at the rankings
quote
capa

Thanks. I wish to practice in Australia - the LLB is to practice. The LLM is to improve my skills (mostly academic) and gain an international perspective. I am told it does not matter what jurisdiction you undertake the LLM, so long as it is at a reputable university.

Thanks. I wish to practice in Australia - the LLB is to practice. The LLM is to improve my skills (mostly academic) and gain an international perspective. I am told it does not matter what jurisdiction you undertake the LLM, so long as it is at a reputable university.
quote
phil55

Hi mate,

Regarding Australian universiites - UNSW and USyd are the two best in Sydney. There is some debate as to which is better. USyd is more old school English style, UNSW is probably a bit more modern. The other difference is that UNSW has a lot of Asian students, whereas USyd is more preppy white boys.

In Melbourne, University of Melbourne is meant to, as a whole, have a higher intelligence level amongst its students than Monash. Within the law faculty though, I don´t think there is too much difference between them.

ANU is overrated. Plus it is located in the single worst city in Australia - Canberra. Not recommended! University of Queensland would be OK, but seriously, you would be crazy to go there over Sydney or Melbourne.

My recommendation overall - go to the University of Sydney!

Hi mate,

Regarding Australian universiites - UNSW and USyd are the two best in Sydney. There is some debate as to which is better. USyd is more old school English style, UNSW is probably a bit more modern. The other difference is that UNSW has a lot of Asian students, whereas USyd is more preppy white boys.

In Melbourne, University of Melbourne is meant to, as a whole, have a higher intelligence level amongst its students than Monash. Within the law faculty though, I don´t think there is too much difference between them.

ANU is overrated. Plus it is located in the single worst city in Australia - Canberra. Not recommended! University of Queensland would be OK, but seriously, you would be crazy to go there over Sydney or Melbourne.

My recommendation overall - go to the University of Sydney!
quote
esha

You are probably right there..but i believe the place one wants to work has to be definately taken in to consideration while deciding on the prospective LLM ...if u planning to work in Europe then u shud go for UK law schools ..on the other hand if u want to settle in states or elsewhere then US wud be a better choice...and In asia and australia--then one cud go for an LLM in Australia

You are probably right there..but i believe the place one wants to work has to be definately taken in to consideration while deciding on the prospective LLM ...if u planning to work in Europe then u shud go for UK law schools ..on the other hand if u want to settle in states or elsewhere then US wud be a better choice...and In asia and australia--then one cud go for an LLM in Australia
quote
capa

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, i'm an Aussie and know ANU is top with the next being Melb, then Syd, then, the rest of the G8... I wonder how those Australian uni's compare with the EU ones I listed?

Also, can anyone please let me know what they think of those EU universities?

Does anyone know of any other LLM or law studies forums?

Thanks very much.

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, i'm an Aussie and know ANU is top with the next being Melb, then Syd, then, the rest of the G8... I wonder how those Australian uni's compare with the EU ones I listed?

Also, can anyone please let me know what they think of those EU universities?

Does anyone know of any other LLM or law studies forums?

Thanks very much.
quote
BGB

Hi, I honestly don't know how the Aussi Unis compare to the European ones. If there are international comparisons available they focus on the general performance and quality of a university. A good example is Leiden University. Its Law Faculty has huge problems. They have huge numbers of students and a relative small number of faculty. In several independent surveys Leiden's Law School is rated as one of the worst (in both education and research). Leiden is one of the oldest universities in the Netherlands and in most fields its quality is recognized. This is not shown in the international general surveys. In the Netherlands the Law School of Tilburg University has the best overall rating (a number of years already; a annual survey by the Elsevier Journal). Tilburg is my alma mater, so I may be a bit biased.

Hi, I honestly don't know how the Aussi Unis compare to the European ones. If there are international comparisons available they focus on the general performance and quality of a university. A good example is Leiden University. Its Law Faculty has huge problems. They have huge numbers of students and a relative small number of faculty. In several independent surveys Leiden's Law School is rated as one of the worst (in both education and research). Leiden is one of the oldest universities in the Netherlands and in most fields its quality is recognized. This is not shown in the international general surveys. In the Netherlands the Law School of Tilburg University has the best overall rating (a number of years already; a annual survey by the Elsevier Journal). Tilburg is my alma mater, so I may be a bit biased.
quote
Mehmet

Dear friends!
I am doing some research on Tilburg university.
1) Do you know any updated international rankings of Tilburg Law? Very important!
2) Is there anybody who knows Tilburg well? As I study law, my wife is planning to improve her English and German by taking some language courses, maybe at the university? Are there such facilities in town or at the university? This is also very important!

Thanks for any replies...

Dear friends!
I am doing some research on Tilburg university.
1) Do you know any updated international rankings of Tilburg Law? Very important!
2) Is there anybody who knows Tilburg well? As I study law, my wife is planning to improve her English and German by taking some language courses, maybe at the university? Are there such facilities in town or at the university? This is also very important!

Thanks for any replies...
quote
Mehmet

Hi there!
Do you know which universities are best to study "European Law" in United States? Note: Ooops, I am not a law student..! Unfortunately! I have graduated from economics. But my current profession is highly related with EU law..

Any university suggestions?? :)

Thanks for any replies....

Hi there!
Do you know which universities are best to study "European Law" in United States? Note: Ooops, I am not a law student..! Unfortunately! I have graduated from economics. But my current profession is highly related with EU law..

Any university suggestions?? :)

Thanks for any replies....
quote
Joanna

Dear Memet,

Here is the link to top school law ranking placing Tilburg University at the first place http://the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com/2006/07/top-20-non-us-law-schools.html
I heard it is also placing the one of the top position according to ssrn. Check the web. Faculty of law in Tilburg is one of the best is Europe.

Dear Memet,

Here is the link to top school law ranking placing Tilburg University at the first place http://the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com/2006/07/top-20-non-us-law-schools.html
I heard it is also placing the one of the top position according to ssrn. Check the web. Faculty of law in Tilburg is one of the best is Europe.
quote
Russ

The problem with a ranking based on the number of downloads from/uploads to the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) is that the SSRN is only targeting the English-speaking legal community. This is why law schools countries like e.g. Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Japan do (almost) not appear in the ranking you cited. In these countries, there is not much necessity to write/read articles in English as national (and international) law is being discussed in the national languages. In these countries, SSRN only matters to some internationally focused institutions like the Max Planck Institutes (which are not actually law schools...). In Netherlands, Belgium, Israel and Scandinavian countries it is more common to publish academic articles in English.

Therefore, I do not think that a ranking based on the SSRN is of much value for non-US/non-UK law schools. On the other hand, you can be sure to get a good level of English at schools in the Netherlands, Israel and in the Scandinavian countries.

The problem with a ranking based on the number of downloads from/uploads to the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) is that the SSRN is only targeting the English-speaking legal community. This is why law schools countries like e.g. Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Japan do (almost) not appear in the ranking you cited. In these countries, there is not much necessity to write/read articles in English as national (and international) law is being discussed in the national languages. In these countries, SSRN only matters to some internationally focused institutions like the Max Planck Institutes (which are not actually law schools...). In Netherlands, Belgium, Israel and Scandinavian countries it is more common to publish academic articles in English.

Therefore, I do not think that a ranking based on the SSRN is of much value for non-US/non-UK law schools. On the other hand, you can be sure to get a good level of English at schools in the Netherlands, Israel and in the Scandinavian countries.
quote
Russ

Also, the methodology is disputable:

"Third, it is unclear how much these figures depend upon one person. It is the case that most of Tilburg's 5,956 downloads come from just one of its 20 represented staff (i.e., the 3,338 of Hopt mentioned above). A few law schools only have a handful of people represented: Catholic University of Leuven (5), Max Planck (5), UCL (7), Ghent (9), Bologna (4), Manchester (9), Amsterdam (7), Bar-Ilan (9), and Frankfurt (2). Only Genoa had one person listed."

http://the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com/2006/07/top-20-non-us-law-schools.html

Also, the methodology is disputable:

"Third, it is unclear how much these figures depend upon one person. It is the case that most of Tilburg's 5,956 downloads come from just one of its 20 represented staff (i.e., the 3,338 of Hopt mentioned above). A few law schools only have a handful of people represented: Catholic University of Leuven (5), Max Planck (5), UCL (7), Ghent (9), Bologna (4), Manchester (9), Amsterdam (7), Bar-Ilan (9), and Frankfurt (2). Only Genoa had one person listed."

http://the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com/2006/07/top-20-non-us-law-schools.html
quote
ntakb

I am glad to see discussion of some of my blog's posts ("The Brooks Blog": http//the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com ). I must say that I entirely agree with the criticisms levied at the SSRN. As I note (and am quoted), much of the download figures are for a small percentage of the dept or a few key persons---the vast majority are left out. My own university---Newcastle Univ, UK---cracks the top 15 if it includes my own downloads, but bottom of the pile without: we have two persons on SSRN, one of whom left for Durham Law School(!).

The SSRN provides some fun navel gazing. Whenever I ask myself why in the world I've spent so much time trying to wrie papers (worrying if anyone ever reads them), I can go to SSRN and smile when I see they are at least been downloaded and looked at. I also receive some excellent comments on blogs and by email, as well as offers to publish papers I've posted. It is an excellent tool for getting your work known.

However, the fact that a dept scores high in my monthly rankings is no guarantee that the dept is better than others. However, those that make the top 10 or 20 are often (independently) thought to belong in such a list. Top programmes are always represented, but I wouldn't worry if someone is 7 or 9 or 1 (or how the changes go month to month). Hope some of you enjoy the blog...

I am glad to see discussion of some of my blog's posts ("The Brooks Blog": http//the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com ). I must say that I entirely agree with the criticisms levied at the SSRN. As I note (and am quoted), much of the download figures are for a small percentage of the dept or a few key persons---the vast majority are left out. My own university---Newcastle Univ, UK---cracks the top 15 if it includes my own downloads, but bottom of the pile without: we have two persons on SSRN, one of whom left for Durham Law School(!).

The SSRN provides some fun navel gazing. Whenever I ask myself why in the world I've spent so much time trying to wrie papers (worrying if anyone ever reads them), I can go to SSRN and smile when I see they are at least been downloaded and looked at. I also receive some excellent comments on blogs and by email, as well as offers to publish papers I've posted. It is an excellent tool for getting your work known.

However, the fact that a dept scores high in my monthly rankings is no guarantee that the dept is better than others. However, those that make the top 10 or 20 are often (independently) thought to belong in such a list. Top programmes are always represented, but I wouldn't worry if someone is 7 or 9 or 1 (or how the changes go month to month). Hope some of you enjoy the blog...
quote
AiryFairy

Hey capa i just finished my MA in international law at ANU and I must say the professors there are the most qualified and helpful individuals I have ever met. The law faculty is quite tough but in the end it really pays off to know that you graduated from Australia's most reputable university. Whoever suggests that ANU is over-ranked is just jealous ;)

The downside is Canberra is quite isolated and boring (and a lot of the people there are weird!!) I'm from Sydney and I'm very outgoing so it was quite tough for me to get used to Canberra (and the majority of the nerds at ANU) but once you make friends then it makes things much easier and the public transport system is great. By the way, Canberra is NOT as cheap as people might think, it's actually more expensive than Sydney. You would be better off applying for on campus accommodation - but makes sure you do so as soon as you receive an offer.

If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask!
Good luck!

Hey capa i just finished my MA in international law at ANU and I must say the professors there are the most qualified and helpful individuals I have ever met. The law faculty is quite tough but in the end it really pays off to know that you graduated from Australia's most reputable university. Whoever suggests that ANU is over-ranked is just jealous ;)

The downside is Canberra is quite isolated and boring (and a lot of the people there are weird!!) I'm from Sydney and I'm very outgoing so it was quite tough for me to get used to Canberra (and the majority of the nerds at ANU) but once you make friends then it makes things much easier and the public transport system is great. By the way, Canberra is NOT as cheap as people might think, it's actually more expensive than Sydney. You would be better off applying for on campus accommodation - but makes sure you do so as soon as you receive an offer.

If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask!
Good luck!
quote
jason_d

With regards to the law schools located in NSW and Canberra... if you're interested in the prestige of the school in terms of student status hierarchies - the best indicator would probably be the university entry cut-off scores posted by the UAC. Because Canberra and NSW both use the same hsc and university entry methods - their cut-offs can be directly compared.

According to the UAI the most pretigious law schools among students have always been Sydney Univeristy and UNSW. The entry cut-off scores for high school leavers in 2007 of both universities were 99.55 and 99.20 respectively. The cut offs for UTS was 97.00 and ANU: 95.00 (ANU still had vacancies listed which means their cut-off was arbitarily listed).

Thus it appears that USYD and UNSW attract the brightest students that score in the top 0.8% in the state (According to the Board of Studies, only about 800 students score over 99). Mind you - the UAI/TER cut-off both these schools have ridden in the 99.00+ band for some time now, so you can imagine the intellectual calibre of their alumni base.

Indeed, there's often the implicit thought (among my law colleagues anyway and yes this will sound horribly snotty) that anyone who didn't attended USyd or UNSW probably didn't make the high entry cut and had to settle for lower second grade cut-off options i.e. UTS, MQ or ANU.

I personally attended UNSW and I can say that it was an intense and great learning experience. I managed to fast track my 5 year combined degree over 4 years by taking summer courses and even had the opportunity to take one English taught course in Beijing which was great!! The senior electives had smaller student numbers and the lecturers were highly regarded academics with substantial industry experience. A lot of the tutors were also law professionals from the city who taught part-time.

With regards to the law schools located in NSW and Canberra... if you're interested in the prestige of the school in terms of student status hierarchies - the best indicator would probably be the university entry cut-off scores posted by the UAC. Because Canberra and NSW both use the same hsc and university entry methods - their cut-offs can be directly compared.

According to the UAI the most pretigious law schools among students have always been Sydney Univeristy and UNSW. The entry cut-off scores for high school leavers in 2007 of both universities were 99.55 and 99.20 respectively. The cut offs for UTS was 97.00 and ANU: 95.00 (ANU still had vacancies listed which means their cut-off was arbitarily listed).

Thus it appears that USYD and UNSW attract the brightest students that score in the top 0.8% in the state (According to the Board of Studies, only about 800 students score over 99). Mind you - the UAI/TER cut-off both these schools have ridden in the 99.00+ band for some time now, so you can imagine the intellectual calibre of their alumni base.

Indeed, there's often the implicit thought (among my law colleagues anyway and yes this will sound horribly snotty) that anyone who didn't attended USyd or UNSW probably didn't make the high entry cut and had to settle for lower second grade cut-off options i.e. UTS, MQ or ANU.

I personally attended UNSW and I can say that it was an intense and great learning experience. I managed to fast track my 5 year combined degree over 4 years by taking summer courses and even had the opportunity to take one English taught course in Beijing which was great!! The senior electives had smaller student numbers and the lecturers were highly regarded academics with substantial industry experience. A lot of the tutors were also law professionals from the city who taught part-time.

quote
kaka


Indeed, there's often the implicit thought (among my law colleagues anyway and yes this will sound horribly snotty) that anyone who didn't attended USyd or UNSW probably didn't make the high entry cut and had to settle for lower second grade cut-off options i.e. UTS, MQ or ANU.


Hi Jason, could you please elaborate on this comment? Where do you work and in what area of law? Where did your colleagues study law and how long have they been practising?

<blockquote>
Indeed, there's often the implicit thought (among my law colleagues anyway and yes this will sound horribly snotty) that anyone who didn't attended USyd or UNSW probably didn't make the high entry cut and had to settle for lower second grade cut-off options i.e. UTS, MQ or ANU.
</blockquote>

Hi Jason, could you please elaborate on this comment? Where do you work and in what area of law? Where did your colleagues study law and how long have they been practising?
quote
jason_d

Elaborate? Hmmm did you complete your schooling in NSW or Canberra or attend UNSW or Usyd - if not it's hard to do so... I know it sounds terrible but honestly it's a 'known' snotty thing. Quite a number of the folks in my high school unfortunately didn't make the cut had to enrol into UTS or MQ. Of course there are those that did make the cut and opted for UTS or MQ because they liked their campus vibe (though not many that I know of - and no one that I know of went to the ANU).

LIke all undergrads at UNSW, I completed a combined degree - the fast track option is strongly discouraged but you can do so via clever manipulation of your timetable by taking summer courses - it's HECS at UNSW but upfront charged at USyd. That's another good thing about UNSW all summer and exchange courses can be HECS.

Many of the folks who study law (and I mean a lot!!) don't go on to pursue legal professions per se. I'm currently working in risk analytics at a major accounting firm.

Elaborate? Hmmm did you complete your schooling in NSW or Canberra or attend UNSW or Usyd - if not it's hard to do so... I know it sounds terrible but honestly it's a 'known' snotty thing. Quite a number of the folks in my high school unfortunately didn't make the cut had to enrol into UTS or MQ. Of course there are those that did make the cut and opted for UTS or MQ because they liked their campus vibe (though not many that I know of - and no one that I know of went to the ANU).

LIke all undergrads at UNSW, I completed a combined degree - the fast track option is strongly discouraged but you can do so via clever manipulation of your timetable by taking summer courses - it's HECS at UNSW but upfront charged at USyd. That's another good thing about UNSW all summer and exchange courses can be HECS.

Many of the folks who study law (and I mean a lot!!) don't go on to pursue legal professions per se. I'm currently working in risk analytics at a major accounting firm.


quote
jason_d

According to the UAI the most pretigious law schools among students have always been Sydney Univeristy and UNSW. The entry cut-off scores for high school leavers in 2007 of both universities were 99.55 and 99.20 respectively. The cut offs for UTS was 97.00 and ANU: 95.00 (ANU still had vacancies listed which means their cut-off was arbitarily listed).

Thus it appears that USYD and UNSW attract the brightest students that score in the top 0.8% in the state (According to the Board of Studies, only about 800 students score over 99). Mind you - the UAI/TER cut-off both these schools have ridden in the 99.00+ band for some time now, so you can imagine the intellectual calibre of their alumni base.

According to the UAI the most pretigious law schools among students have always been Sydney Univeristy and UNSW. The entry cut-off scores for high school leavers in 2007 of both universities were 99.55 and 99.20 respectively. The cut offs for UTS was 97.00 and ANU: 95.00 (ANU still had vacancies listed which means their cut-off was arbitarily listed).

Thus it appears that USYD and UNSW attract the brightest students that score in the top 0.8% in the state (According to the Board of Studies, only about 800 students score over 99). Mind you - the UAI/TER cut-off both these schools have ridden in the 99.00+ band for some time now, so you can imagine the intellectual calibre of their alumni base.
quote
kaka

Elaborate? Hmmm did you complete your schooling in NSW or Canberra or attend UNSW or Usyd - if not it's hard to do so... I know it sounds terrible but honestly it's a 'known' snotty thing. Quite a number of the folks in my high school unfortunately didn't make the cut had to enrol into UTS or MQ. Of course there are those that did make the cut and opted for UTS or MQ because they liked their campus vibe (though not many that I know of - and no one that I know of went to the ANU).

LIke all undergrads at UNSW, I completed a combined degree - the fast track option is strongly discouraged but you can do so via clever manipulation of your timetable by taking summer courses - it's HECS at UNSW but upfront charged at USyd. That's another good thing about UNSW all summer and exchange courses can be HECS.

Many of the folks who study law (and I mean a lot!!) don't go on to pursue legal professions per se. I'm currently working in risk analytics at a major accounting firm.




Well it sounds fairly anecdotal to me and probably is a result of your own subjective feelings about the culture of your university, feelings which you may share with your fellow alumni but may not exist in the minds of employers.

<blockquote>Elaborate? Hmmm did you complete your schooling in NSW or Canberra or attend UNSW or Usyd - if not it's hard to do so... I know it sounds terrible but honestly it's a 'known' snotty thing. Quite a number of the folks in my high school unfortunately didn't make the cut had to enrol into UTS or MQ. Of course there are those that did make the cut and opted for UTS or MQ because they liked their campus vibe (though not many that I know of - and no one that I know of went to the ANU).

LIke all undergrads at UNSW, I completed a combined degree - the fast track option is strongly discouraged but you can do so via clever manipulation of your timetable by taking summer courses - it's HECS at UNSW but upfront charged at USyd. That's another good thing about UNSW all summer and exchange courses can be HECS.

Many of the folks who study law (and I mean a lot!!) don't go on to pursue legal professions per se. I'm currently working in risk analytics at a major accounting firm.


</blockquote>

Well it sounds fairly anecdotal to me and probably is a result of your own subjective feelings about the culture of your university, feelings which you may share with your fellow alumni but may not exist in the minds of employers.
quote

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