Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons
By Banana Pie in The LLM experience from an Anonymous Lawyer on Jan 12, 2010
Hey Everyone,
I have been a long time follower of LLM guide since I decided to do my LLM in 2008. So I've decided to give something back to the LLM Guide community by sharing some of my thoughts and experiences of the LLM from the perspective of someone who had worked for a number of years as a lawyer.
The LLM was always something I wanted to do. But it meant that I had to take a "break" in the climb up the commercial law firm hierarchy. However the LLM experience is definitely worth it.
I am currently undertaking the LLM at UCL with a international commercial specialisation. I have to say that I am loving the experience. UCL is a fantastic university. I love the courses I am doing. They have opened my eyes to new theories and perspectives that I believe will only enhance my practical experience and knowledge.
But not everything was wonderful and some things were...well disappointing. Where you have paid out of your own pocket (and borrowed) and quit your nice cushy job for the experience any disappointment is hard to bear. But the key thing is that if you are here for the right reasons, you will get over it and make the best out of it.
So here are my thoughts and experiences of the LLM at UCL so far:
*I expected the class sizes for the LLM to be much smaller (max 20 people) than what I had experienced at undergraduate level (100 plus people). A smaller class size means intellectual discussion of the ideas and topics covered in the course. However, the reality is that the total number of people taking the LLM at UCL for 2009-10 is 450 people (including about 50 part timers). This has meant that in the courses I am taking (commercial courses) there are usually between 50 to 100 people in a class, which is not conducive to intellectual debate or discussion. In fact it encourages intellectual inertia.
*Because of the class sizes, the lectures are run as undergraduate lectures with you (the student) listening and the Professor talking at you. If your Professor is good he/she will try and encourage some discussion and debate. If your Professor is not so good, he/she will read from the powerpoint slides that you had to print out and take to class.
*Pick papers you're interested in and that will enhance your knowledge and experience. Don't pick papers because you think it will look good on your CV. I know of several people who had to drop out of courses and switch to other courses because they hated the paper so much but were only doing it because they thought it would look good on the CV.
*I expected all if not most of the LLM courses to be "advanced". That is basic legal principles and practices in the commercial world would be assumed or covered in one introductory lecture and the rest of the course will cover the topics in the course in more detail, with application etc. However, a good number of the courses are almost primers in the area rather than an advanced course of study. Wisely use the 2 weeks you have to choose your courses and find out which ones are actually going to add to your knowledge and experience and which ones won't.
*If you're thinking about doing the LLM because you think you can get a job in London after wards, think again. At a careers law fair at UCL a friend of mine was bluntly told by a number of law firms that there no jobs for people with legal work experience and that they would have been better off staying in their home country. If they really wanted to work in London as a lawyer they had to start again and complete a training contract. To be honest, I am not sure whether you would have to start again at training contract level if you've got a decent number of years work experience. But, getting a job in London is not going to be easy and the LLM won't be the golden ticket into a job no matter which university you're from.
*I struggled to do the readings before the lectures. Not because they were hard or too much (well yes they were too much: the readings lists are massive!) but because I had no idea why I was reading what I was reading. After chatting to my personal tutor I started to do some of the readings before class (for example the textbook chapter) and then the rest after the lecture. This for me made more sense. In the work context, you would never read up on the law before you met a client (ok you'd do some background reading from a textbook- at most). You did the intensive research/reading after you had found out what the issue was.
So, those are my thoughts and experiences so far. Despite what appears to be a whole list of negatives, I am truly loving my LLM experience at UCL. I have made a great bunch of friends, met some great people and I have genuinely learnt a lot (with the second semester still to go!). I think despite all the negatives, because I really wanted to do the LLM to learn, grow my knowledge and add to my experiences, the negatives really became "non issues".
So, the moral of the story: If you're doing the LLM for the right reasons then you will have the best and most unforgettable experience.
Comments
LWE, Apr 02, 2010 23:41
Just a word of warning for anyone undertaking the LLM and wanting to go on to become a trainee solicitor. Whilst the LLM will enhance your CV and improve your chances of getting a training contract when you come to apply you should also ensure you get some good quality legal work experience to go on your CV too. Law firms want to see that you have explored the practical side of the law as well as the academic.
Banana Pie, Jan 15, 2010 18:40
Thanks Stephan for your comments! I would definitely agree to take class size into account when making your choices.
stephan, Jan 15, 2010 10:17
Excellent piece with some good advice. I had a similar experience at UCL regarding most points. However, I benefited of small to medium classes. The class size was mainly a problem for the few most popular courses (Corporate Finance, Company Law etc.). Even in Competition Law and Regulation of Financial Markets the class size was reasonable and permitted discussions (provided professors/students were willing to engage), not to speak of more specialised courses like Economic Analysis of Law (a dozen stundents).
I guess the advice is to make sure to take class size into account when you make your choice of courses in the first few weeks.
Banana Pie, Jan 14, 2010 23:59
Thanks DominiumDirectum!
Your comment was exactly what I was thinking after a week at UCL. I was so disappointed. Friends of mine who had done the LLM at Oxbridge related a completely different experience of the LLM to what I was getting at UCL i.e. smaller tutorials, stimulating intellectual debate with peers and professors....basically law nerd heaven!
As I understand it, the set up at UCL is the same at all the London Unis.
However, that is not to say that you can't have the same intellectually stimulating experience at UCL (or any other London Uni) as you do at Oxbridge. Of course you can! But, its up to you to make that happen by finding peers/friends who wish to engage on that level, reading and absorbing all that you can, and taking papers that challenge you etc. As such, I am finding the LLM at UCL very intellectually and academically rewarding!
DominiumDi..., Jan 14, 2010 20:15
Thanks alot for the infos Banana pie ! wow , this looks like nothing i have imagined about LLM studies..=/
Banana Pie, Jan 13, 2010 23:52
Hey Vesperia,
Thanks!
Classes are a mixture of lectures and tutorials. You have lectures run throughout the year. Tutorials are dependent on the papers you take. Some courses have tutorials starting from the second half of the first semester. Others have none until the second half of the second semester (in the run up to exams). From what I can gather, the timing, regularity etc of the tutorials is random at best.
I hope that answers your question!
Vesperia, Jan 13, 2010 08:06
Great insight on the UCL LLM Banana pie!
I however have one question, how are classes generally conducted at UCL? Is it a mixture of lectures and tutorials or just purely tutorial/seminar based?
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