Work in USA - JD/LLM/Other


Hi, I am from Argentina (South America), and I want to ask you for some recomendations. I am a lawyer in my country, I speak spanish, english and portuguese, and I work in a top ten law firm of Argentina.

I want to work in the USA for one or two years and then return to my country with that experience, and (if it is possible) with some contacts from the USA. By "contacts" I mean networking... I would like that law firms or companies from the USA, if they have any problem in Argentina, they call me! you know... clients!

So, to work in a law firm of the USA, what do you think it is better for me? JD, LLM, Other option?

Thanks all!

Hi, I am from Argentina (South America), and I want to ask you for some recomendations. I am a lawyer in my country, I speak spanish, english and portuguese, and I work in a top ten law firm of Argentina.

I want to work in the USA for one or two years and then return to my country with that experience, and (if it is possible) with some contacts from the USA. By "contacts" I mean networking... I would like that law firms or companies from the USA, if they have any problem in Argentina, they call me! you know... clients!

So, to work in a law firm of the USA, what do you think it is better for me? JD, LLM, Other option?

Thanks all!
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josepidal

You should look at an LLM from a school with a strong corporate program, particularly project finance and capital markets, which form core areas of US firm Latin America practice groups.

A JD would be pointless, and an LLM would give you some of the network you want, and a shot at US firms for the rest of it.

You should look at an LLM from a school with a strong corporate program, particularly project finance and capital markets, which form core areas of US firm Latin America practice groups.

A JD would be pointless, and an LLM would give you some of the network you want, and a shot at US firms for the rest of it.
quote

You should look at an LLM from a school with a strong corporate program, particularly project finance and capital markets, which form core areas of US firm Latin America practice groups.


I am really grateful for your answer. What you said it was my first idea.

Do you think that (as a foreign I am) a LLM would give me more chances of getting a job than a JD?

A JD would be pointless, and an LLM would give you some of the network you want, and a shot at US firms for the rest of it.


May I ask you something?:

- Do you think that perhaps a year LLM would give more network than a two years JD?

- Don´t you think that perhpas a JD could give more market value than a LLM? I say this because a lot of people have a LLM of USA but anybody have a JD. I know that a LLM is a postgraduate course and it is something higher that a JD, but for a future foreign client, isn´t more reliable an attorney that is JD of USA than an attorney that have a LLM of USA?.

Thanks a lot!

<blockquote>You should look at an LLM from a school with a strong corporate program, particularly project finance and capital markets, which form core areas of US firm Latin America practice groups.</blockquote>

I am really grateful for your answer. What you said it was my first idea.

Do you think that (as a foreign I am) a LLM would give me more chances of getting a job than a JD?

<blockquote>A JD would be pointless, and an LLM would give you some of the network you want, and a shot at US firms for the rest of it.</blockquote>

May I ask you something?:

- Do you think that perhaps a year LLM would give more network than a two years JD?

- Don´t you think that perhpas a JD could give more market value than a LLM? I say this because a lot of people have a LLM of USA but anybody have a JD. I know that a LLM is a postgraduate course and it is something higher that a JD, but for a future foreign client, isn´t more reliable an attorney that is JD of USA than an attorney that have a LLM of USA?.

Thanks a lot!
quote
josepidal

Why would you waste your time and money to study basic American law to practice in Latin America?

Why would you waste your time and money to study basic American law to practice in Latin America?
quote

You're wrong there. In the US a JD is higher than an LLM - an LLM is a master's, whereas a JD is a doctorate. That's as far as foreign lawyers are concerned. Sone JDs do go on to study specialized LLMs eg tax. But as between a JD and an LLM which a foreign lawyer takes, a JD is better, though pointless if you are returning to your own country to work as an Argentinian lawyer. On the other hand, a JD will be required (most of the time) if you want to work in the US, or, as a US lawyer in your own country.

The general rule is that the overseas offices of US firms will hire LLMs as lawyers of that country, and JDs as US qualified lawyers - regardless of whether you are actually american.

This can sometimes make a big difference eg firms in London often pay twice as much to US qualifieds as they do to local qualifieds - Allen & Overy was paying its entry level solicitors in London circa 55K, but fresh US qualifieds at the London office were being paid 110K+. (UK pounds, not dollars).

So if you are in a good LLM program and have good grades, doing an extra 2 yrs and getting the JD will allow you to work in your own country as a US qualified and earn much more money. That's my experience, the UK London market, maybe similar pay differentials between local and US qualifieds in Buenos Aries?

You're wrong there. In the US a JD is higher than an LLM - an LLM is a master's, whereas a JD is a doctorate. That's as far as foreign lawyers are concerned. Sone JDs do go on to study specialized LLMs eg tax. But as between a JD and an LLM which a foreign lawyer takes, a JD is better, though pointless if you are returning to your own country to work as an Argentinian lawyer. On the other hand, a JD will be required (most of the time) if you want to work in the US, or, as a US lawyer in your own country.

The general rule is that the overseas offices of US firms will hire LLMs as lawyers of that country, and JDs as US qualified lawyers - regardless of whether you are actually american.

This can sometimes make a big difference eg firms in London often pay twice as much to US qualifieds as they do to local qualifieds - Allen & Overy was paying its entry level solicitors in London circa 55K, but fresh US qualifieds at the London office were being paid 110K+. (UK pounds, not dollars).

So if you are in a good LLM program and have good grades, doing an extra 2 yrs and getting the JD will allow you to work in your own country as a US qualified and earn much more money. That's my experience, the UK London market, maybe similar pay differentials between local and US qualifieds in Buenos Aries?
quote
josepidal

You may be confusing a JD degree and an SJD degree.

That said, I don't feel it would be advisable to invest another two years, in sum studying three years to work one to two in the US. It's certainly not true that LLMs are not hired for work in US, particularly New York offices. This is especially true for Latin American practices, which can be run out of the New York offices. LLM or JD, once you're hired for a New York office, you're an associate.

I think what you're saying might make more sense for European LLMs, but even then I'm not sure of the incremental value for LLMs who pass the New York Bar.

You may be confusing a JD degree and an SJD degree.

That said, I don't feel it would be advisable to invest another two years, in sum studying three years to work one to two in the US. It's certainly not true that LLMs are not hired for work in US, particularly New York offices. This is especially true for Latin American practices, which can be run out of the New York offices. LLM or JD, once you're hired for a New York office, you're an associate.

I think what you're saying might make more sense for European LLMs, but even then I'm not sure of the incremental value for LLMs who pass the New York Bar.
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Crash

You're wrong there. In the US a JD is higher than an LLM - an LLM is a master's, whereas a JD is a doctorate.


A Juris Doctor is considered a first professional degree. In the United States, a professional degree is a type of postgraduate degree that is specific to a particular vocation, such as law, medicine, or theology. The J.D. is such a degree because it is the educational requirement to become an attorney.

In the United States, the U.S Department of Education states on its website that "first-professional degrees [ . . . ] are first degrees, not graduate research degrees. Several of the degree titles in this group of subjects [ . . . ] incorporate the term 'Doctor,' but they are not research doctorates and [are] not equivalent to the Ph.D." The web site also lists the Juris Doctor as a first-professional degree.

Though the J.D. is the only degree required for the practice of law, further degrees in law may be earned. These are the LL.M. (Master of Laws) and the J.S.D. (Doctor of Juridical Science, sometimes abbreviated as S.J.D). The LL.M. generally focuses on a specific aspect of law, such as tax law; the J.S.D. is similar in spirit to the Ph.D. and is intended for would-be academics rather than practitioners.

Although the J.D. is not a research degree and law students in the J.D. program do not complete a thesis, many U.S. law schools require students to undergo a year-long legal research and writing program. Also, many U.S. law schools require all students to complete a substantial research paper, of publishable quality, in order to obtain the J.D. degree; the ABA makes this a requirement for accreditation. Finally, the scholarly publications in the field of law unlike in other fields are (under the mentoring and supervision of professors) edited and published by J.D. students. Being a member of one of the law reviews or other publications requires the writing of a student "note" or "comment" which is often comparable to an intermediate-length scholarly article.

One of the generally-accepted definitions of a doctoral research degree is that its holder has written and defended a dissertation that embodies significant, original research in his or her field; the doctoral research degree in most academic disciplines is the Ph.D. degree. The requirements for a J.D. do not include such a dissertation. Law schools prepare their graduates to perform legal research, as practicing attorneys must be able to do so as an important part of their jobs, regardless of which degree (J.D. or LL.B.) is awarded. Typically, legal research in the J.D. program and in the practice of law refers to the discovery and analysis of the legal philosophy and the specific rules embodied in statutes, regulations, treaties, case law, and other legal texts.

In contrast to the J.D. (which is a professional doctoral degree and not a doctoral research degree), the S.J.D. requires the writing and defense of a dissertation and is a doctoral research degree in law. Even where a paper, essay or note prepared as part of the J.D. program contains original research to some extent, its extent would generally not satisfy the S.J.D. dissertation requirements that parallel the Ph.D. requirements.

The U.S. Department of Education distinguishes between first-professional degrees and research doctorates as follows:

"It is also important to recognize that first-professional degrees...are first degrees, not graduate research degrees. Several of the degree titles in this group of subjects...incorporate the term 'Doctor,' but they are not research doctorates and not equivalent to the Ph.D. Master's degrees and research doctorates in these fields of study are awarded, but they have different names and students enroll in those programs after having earned a first-professional degree."

In some cases, university presidents (or would-be presidents) holding a J.D. as their highest degree have been criticized for their lack of a terminal doctorate.

There is no Ph.D. in law in the United States. In the U.S., the terminal academic degree in law is the Doctor of Juridical Science. In the U.S., a J.D. is the minimal requirement for teaching at a law school, although many law professors hold LL.M. degrees in their area of specialization. Universities in some countries outside the U.S. offer a Ph.D. in law (e.g., University of British Columbia in Canada and University of Cambridge and University of London in the United Kingdom) or an LL.D. (e.g., University of Ottawa) as the equivalent of the Doctor of Juridical Science. (Note that, in the U.S. and generally in Canada as well, the LL.D. is an honorary degree.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor

<blockquote>You're wrong there. In the US a JD is higher than an LLM - an LLM is a master's, whereas a JD is a doctorate.</blockquote>

A Juris Doctor is considered a first professional degree. In the United States, a professional degree is a type of postgraduate degree that is specific to a particular vocation, such as law, medicine, or theology. The J.D. is such a degree because it is the educational requirement to become an attorney.

In the United States, the U.S Department of Education states on its website that "first-professional degrees [ . . . ] are first degrees, not graduate research degrees. Several of the degree titles in this group of subjects [ . . . ] incorporate the term 'Doctor,' but they are not research doctorates and [are] not equivalent to the Ph.D." The web site also lists the Juris Doctor as a first-professional degree.

Though the J.D. is the only degree required for the practice of law, further degrees in law may be earned. These are the LL.M. (Master of Laws) and the J.S.D. (Doctor of Juridical Science, sometimes abbreviated as S.J.D). The LL.M. generally focuses on a specific aspect of law, such as tax law; the J.S.D. is similar in spirit to the Ph.D. and is intended for would-be academics rather than practitioners.

Although the J.D. is not a research degree and law students in the J.D. program do not complete a thesis, many U.S. law schools require students to undergo a year-long legal research and writing program. Also, many U.S. law schools require all students to complete a substantial research paper, of publishable quality, in order to obtain the J.D. degree; the ABA makes this a requirement for accreditation. Finally, the scholarly publications in the field of law – unlike in other fields – are (under the mentoring and supervision of professors) edited and published by J.D. students. Being a member of one of the law reviews or other publications requires the writing of a student "note" or "comment" which is often comparable to an intermediate-length scholarly article.

One of the generally-accepted definitions of a doctoral research degree is that its holder has written and defended a dissertation that embodies significant, original research in his or her field; the doctoral research degree in most academic disciplines is the Ph.D. degree. The requirements for a J.D. do not include such a dissertation. Law schools prepare their graduates to perform legal research, as practicing attorneys must be able to do so as an important part of their jobs, regardless of which degree (J.D. or LL.B.) is awarded. Typically, legal research in the J.D. program and in the practice of law refers to the discovery and analysis of the legal philosophy and the specific rules embodied in statutes, regulations, treaties, case law, and other legal texts.

In contrast to the J.D. (which is a professional doctoral degree and not a doctoral research degree), the S.J.D. requires the writing and defense of a dissertation and is a doctoral research degree in law. Even where a paper, essay or note prepared as part of the J.D. program contains original research to some extent, its extent would generally not satisfy the S.J.D. dissertation requirements that parallel the Ph.D. requirements.

The U.S. Department of Education distinguishes between first-professional degrees and research doctorates as follows:

"It is also important to recognize that first-professional degrees...are first degrees, not graduate research degrees. Several of the degree titles in this group of subjects...incorporate the term 'Doctor,' but they are not research doctorates and not equivalent to the Ph.D. Master's degrees and research doctorates in these fields of study are awarded, but they have different names and students enroll in those programs after having earned a first-professional degree."

In some cases, university presidents (or would-be presidents) holding a J.D. as their highest degree have been criticized for their lack of a terminal doctorate.

There is no Ph.D. in law in the United States. In the U.S., the terminal academic degree in law is the Doctor of Juridical Science. In the U.S., a J.D. is the minimal requirement for teaching at a law school, although many law professors hold LL.M. degrees in their area of specialization. Universities in some countries outside the U.S. offer a Ph.D. in law (e.g., University of British Columbia in Canada and University of Cambridge and University of London in the United Kingdom) or an LL.D. (e.g., University of Ottawa) as the equivalent of the Doctor of Juridical Science. (Note that, in the U.S. and generally in Canada as well, the LL.D. is an honorary degree.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor
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