Stanford v. Columbia


tyr004
got two admissions. no scholarship. which one will you choose?
got two admissions. no scholarship. which one will you choose?
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c.ronaldo
Stanford. The class size, student/faculty-ratio, living costs and living quality (stanford is absolutely great!!) are much better. And stanford's admission rate is the most competitive ever in this year. It's much more competitive than CLS'.
Stanford. The class size, student/faculty-ratio, living costs and living quality (stanford is absolutely great!!) are much better. And stanford's admission rate is the most competitive ever in this year. It's much more competitive than CLS'.
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petersta
Stanford. Hands down.
Stanford. Hands down.
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Fritz
Stanford. It's superior in every respect. too bad that they turned me down. :-(
Stanford. It's superior in every respect. too bad that they turned me down. :-(
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Hedgefund
The answer is not that clear -- it depends on what you are interested in: life quality or variety of courses and entertainment (no other place can be compared to NY). Your interests in particular areas of law should also be taken into account. In addition, Columbia is an Ivy League university, while Stanford is not.
The answer is not that clear -- it depends on what you are interested in: life quality or variety of courses and entertainment (no other place can be compared to NY). Your interests in particular areas of law should also be taken into account. In addition, Columbia is an Ivy League university, while Stanford is not.
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MAB79
While I also think that there are very good reason to take the CLS offer, I'd say the Ivy League factor does not apply because Stanford has a reputation that is even as good as CLS, if not better for certain areas of law....It depends really on what you are looking for. Stanford is more competitive and has smaller class sizes, but CLS offers more courses and has a wider diversity...But I think in the end you can only win...no matter which uni u decide...
While I also think that there are very good reason to take the CLS offer, I'd say the Ivy League factor does not apply because Stanford has a reputation that is even as good as CLS, if not better for certain areas of law....It depends really on what you are looking for. Stanford is more competitive and has smaller class sizes, but CLS offers more courses and has a wider diversity...But I think in the end you can only win...no matter which uni u decide...
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I think Columbia has an edge here
I think Columbia has an edge here
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pnarg
A friend of mine faced this choice in 2008... I personally think it is a very though one, much more difficult and yet not even closely as explored as the famous YvH dilemma.

As my friend said to me: the problem is that, all things considered, the cases couldn't be more different. So I think you're wrong trying to get some advice as regards prestige or academic quality (unless your analysis is field-specific, but maybe even then the differences are mostly irrelevant). The truth of the matter is that both schools are the same on this. Even for job prospects (which shouldn't be a decisive variable, nowadays) both are entirely comparable.

So, my advice would be that you should think which kind of school and which kind of overall life experience YOU would like to have: class size is a relevant difference (the debate "small v large" law school is entirely meaningful), location is another one (good weather all year long in a very nice suburban area, or incredible city), etc.

Bottom line: there is not an academic/prestige case for any one vis a vis the other and so NO ONE CAN MAKE THIS DECSION FOR YOU
(e.g. the guy I mentioned ended up in SLS, but he was married with childen and this factor was crucial).
A friend of mine faced this choice in 2008... I personally think it is a very though one, much more difficult and yet not even closely as explored as the famous YvH dilemma.

As my friend said to me: the problem is that, all things considered, the cases couldn't be more different. So I think you're wrong trying to get some advice as regards prestige or academic quality (unless your analysis is field-specific, but maybe even then the differences are mostly irrelevant). The truth of the matter is that both schools are the same on this. Even for job prospects (which shouldn't be a decisive variable, nowadays) both are entirely comparable.

So, my advice would be that you should think which kind of school and which kind of overall life experience YOU would like to have: class size is a relevant difference (the debate "small v large" law school is entirely meaningful), location is another one (good weather all year long in a very nice suburban area, or incredible city), etc.

Bottom line: there is not an academic/prestige case for any one vis a vis the other and so NO ONE CAN MAKE THIS DECSION FOR YOU
(e.g. the guy I mentioned ended up in SLS, but he was married with childen and this factor was crucial).
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dbk
Stanford is more selective and better ranked. Both schools have excellent reputation anyway...
Stanford is more selective and better ranked. Both schools have excellent reputation anyway...
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tyr004
Thank you very much. Personally I am prone to Stanford. But my worry is job prospect. Will it be easy to find a job in NYC if I live in the west coast?

As to specific fields, I understand Stanford is top in PE/VC, while Columbia in finance, both due to their locations. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you very much. Personally I am prone to Stanford. But my worry is job prospect. Will it be easy to find a job in NYC if I live in the west coast?

As to specific fields, I understand Stanford is top in PE/VC, while Columbia in finance, both due to their locations. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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MAB79
Thank you very much. Personally I am prone to Stanford. But my worry is job prospect. Will it be easy to find a job in NYC if I live in the west coast?

As to specific fields, I understand Stanford is top in PE/VC, while Columbia in finance, both due to their locations. Please correct me if I am wrong.


One thing is for sure: No matter where you have been: it will not be easy to find a job in NY at all! Even if you graduate with highest honors from HLS!
<blockquote>Thank you very much. Personally I am prone to Stanford. But my worry is job prospect. Will it be easy to find a job in NYC if I live in the west coast?

As to specific fields, I understand Stanford is top in PE/VC, while Columbia in finance, both due to their locations. Please correct me if I am wrong.</blockquote>

One thing is for sure: No matter where you have been: it will not be easy to find a job in NY at all! Even if you graduate with highest honors from HLS!
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pragh
Columbia. In general, it's easier to find a job in east coast than west coast no matter in booming period or otherwise. Just imagine you will need to take a five-hour flight to NYC if you receive an invitation to interview; the same applies to your bar exam which takes place in NY state.
Columbia. In general, it's easier to find a job in east coast than west coast no matter in booming period or otherwise. Just imagine you will need to take a five-hour flight to NYC if you receive an invitation to interview; the same applies to your bar exam which takes place in NY state.
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petersta
stanford, because of its superior education and small classes. you'll love it. and admissions at stanford are more competitive than at CLS
stanford, because of its superior education and small classes. you'll love it. and admissions at stanford are more competitive than at CLS
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highlyfly
Columbia,

The location is very important. If you are not an US citizen, there will be more internship opportunities or other openings in NY.

In big class, you can meet more friends, and then have more network resource.
Columbia,

The location is very important. If you are not an US citizen, there will be more internship opportunities or other openings in NY.

In big class, you can meet more friends, and then have more network resource.
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Oldtimer
Columbia. In general, it's easier to find a job in east coast than west coast no matter in booming period or otherwise. Just imagine you will need to take a five-hour flight to NYC if you receive an invitation to interview; the same applies to your bar exam which takes place in NY state.


If you receive an invitation for an interview, then the Law Firm will normally pay for the travel expenses (or at least was the case before the economic downturn...).
<blockquote>Columbia. In general, it's easier to find a job in east coast than west coast no matter in booming period or otherwise. Just imagine you will need to take a five-hour flight to NYC if you receive an invitation to interview; the same applies to your bar exam which takes place in NY state.</blockquote>

If you receive an invitation for an interview, then the Law Firm will normally pay for the travel expenses (or at least was the case before the economic downturn...).
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pragh
Thanks for reminding, but I meant something more than $: the time spent in air as well as the three hour gap, which altogether may affect you. A former colleague of mine told me her experience @ Berkeley. She particularly mentioned that it was tiring to death to fly back and forth between California and NY.
Thanks for reminding, but I meant something more than $: the time spent in air as well as the three hour gap, which altogether may affect you. A former colleague of mine told me her experience @ Berkeley. She particularly mentioned that it was tiring to death to fly back and forth between California and NY.
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Gaudio
I think I'll go for Columbia.
Ivy league (this has a lot of weight around the world), in NYC (nothing beats that in lifestyle, things to do and job opportunities), and near Washington DC (another great place for job prospects).
In general, East coast is better for non american students. It's where the money is. ;-)
And job prospects for a foreign lawyer in California are close to imposible.
I agree with the disadvantages of being too far from the East coast.
I think I'll go for Columbia.
Ivy league (this has a lot of weight around the world), in NYC (nothing beats that in lifestyle, things to do and job opportunities), and near Washington DC (another great place for job prospects).
In general, East coast is better for non american students. It's where the money is. ;-)
And job prospects for a foreign lawyer in California are close to imposible.
I agree with the disadvantages of being too far from the East coast.
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Dundee
A number of reasons why Columbia may be better:
(1) Highest ranking among Comparative and International Law Programs - for a non-native student that is an important aspect; major competitors of Columbia are nowhere around
(2) Bigger classes. Opposite to what has been said about "small classes are better", when you encounter your peers from various countries, you normally make friends with them and such relations can help you in your future career
(3) Columbia LLM students work together with JD classes
(4) Columbia is part of "Ivy League" - that's prestigious and important for employers
(5) Take a look at partners from major law firms. In my area of specialization, I found that a great number of partners are graduates of Columbia, while Stanford didn't turn out to be famous, if measured by this criterion. An inference could be made that you are likely to be hired if you are a graduate of Columbia.
A number of reasons why Columbia may be better:
(1) Highest ranking among Comparative and International Law Programs - for a non-native student that is an important aspect; major competitors of Columbia are nowhere around
(2) Bigger classes. Opposite to what has been said about "small classes are better", when you encounter your peers from various countries, you normally make friends with them and such relations can help you in your future career
(3) Columbia LLM students work together with JD classes
(4) Columbia is part of "Ivy League" - that's prestigious and important for employers
(5) Take a look at partners from major law firms. In my area of specialization, I found that a great number of partners are graduates of Columbia, while Stanford didn't turn out to be famous, if measured by this criterion. An inference could be made that you are likely to be hired if you are a graduate of Columbia.
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VERT
If your concern is job prospects after the LLM, choose Columbia.
If you are more into law teaching, choose Stanford.
If your concern is job prospects after the LLM, choose Columbia.
If you are more into law teaching, choose Stanford.
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This is an easy choice.

Columbia is a great law school, but it's not as prestigious as Stanford. SLS has long been a top 3 school and is usually ranked ahead of Harvard, something Columbia will never achieve. In terms of reputation, Columbia is grouped with Chicago and NYU (also great schools); not Harvard, Stanford & Yale.

Columbia's LLM program is considerably less selective than Stanford's - a fact that is not lost on employers. The judge & lawyer survey scores from US News - the factor you should presumably be concerned with if you're on the job hunt - places Harvard, Stanford, and Yale in a tie, and all are ahead of Columbia, The smaller class size allows for easy access to faculty, who can provide crucial contacts (as well as a superior academic experience). As for recruiting, most of this happens in the January job fair, which students from all the top schools attend.

If your concern is taking classes with JD students, you should probably be aware that SLS LLM candidates take almost all their courses with the American students. Indeed, the very small number of Stanford LLM students means they're vastly outnumbered by JD students in just about every class.

If you want to compare Stanford and Columbia's representation amongst the ranks of partners in law firms, it might be worth bearing in mind that Stanford has the smallest top school in the US and graduates considerably less than half as many lawyers each year as Columbia. Thus, I don't think this anecodtal observation should enjoy any weight. In addition, Columbia grads are known for going the big law firm route, while many more SLS grads end up clerking and then in academia or government work.

This talk of the Ivy League is just plain silly. That's an athletic conference for leading east-coast schools. Some world-class universities not on the east coast (think University of Chicago, Berkeley, Michigan, Cal Tech, Stanford, etc; also MIT on the east coast) are not in the Ivy League. If you want to look at the overall reputation of Stanford and Columbia universities, from what I understand, the former is generally more highly regarded. Indeed, Stanford has top 3 programs across a whole spectrum of areas (whether it be engineering, economics, business or any other area often of interest to law students)

I'm not saying that you'd necessarily be foolish to choose Columbia. If you've always wanted to spend a year in NYC, then perhaps that's reason enough. Or if there are particular faculty at Columbia whom you'd especially like to work with, then it is by all means a smart call to go there. But, other things being equal, SLS is the obvious way to go (and this is regardless of whether 300+ days of sunshine per year under palm trees happen to appeal...).
This is an easy choice.

Columbia is a great law school, but it's not as prestigious as Stanford. SLS has long been a top 3 school and is usually ranked ahead of Harvard, something Columbia will never achieve. In terms of reputation, Columbia is grouped with Chicago and NYU (also great schools); not Harvard, Stanford & Yale.

Columbia's LLM program is considerably less selective than Stanford's - a fact that is not lost on employers. The judge & lawyer survey scores from US News - the factor you should presumably be concerned with if you're on the job hunt - places Harvard, Stanford, and Yale in a tie, and all are ahead of Columbia, The smaller class size allows for easy access to faculty, who can provide crucial contacts (as well as a superior academic experience). As for recruiting, most of this happens in the January job fair, which students from all the top schools attend.

If your concern is taking classes with JD students, you should probably be aware that SLS LLM candidates take almost all their courses with the American students. Indeed, the very small number of Stanford LLM students means they're vastly outnumbered by JD students in just about every class.

If you want to compare Stanford and Columbia's representation amongst the ranks of partners in law firms, it might be worth bearing in mind that Stanford has the smallest top school in the US and graduates considerably less than half as many lawyers each year as Columbia. Thus, I don't think this anecodtal observation should enjoy any weight. In addition, Columbia grads are known for going the big law firm route, while many more SLS grads end up clerking and then in academia or government work.

This talk of the Ivy League is just plain silly. That's an athletic conference for leading east-coast schools. Some world-class universities not on the east coast (think University of Chicago, Berkeley, Michigan, Cal Tech, Stanford, etc; also MIT on the east coast) are not in the Ivy League. If you want to look at the overall reputation of Stanford and Columbia universities, from what I understand, the former is generally more highly regarded. Indeed, Stanford has top 3 programs across a whole spectrum of areas (whether it be engineering, economics, business or any other area often of interest to law students)

I'm not saying that you'd necessarily be foolish to choose Columbia. If you've always wanted to spend a year in NYC, then perhaps that's reason enough. Or if there are particular faculty at Columbia whom you'd especially like to work with, then it is by all means a smart call to go there. But, other things being equal, SLS is the obvious way to go (and this is regardless of whether 300+ days of sunshine per year under palm trees happen to appeal...).
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