Penn + 27.5k v. Harvard


Freckles

So here is one of those never ending comparisons; I could really use any substantive opinion! I have received an offer for Penn Law with an Award of $27.500 waived from tuition fees (25k +2.5k from the summer program). If we assume I get into Harvard without knowing about financial aid until after Penns deadline, what would you suggest I do?

Just to make my situation a bit more clear, after the LLM I wish to apply for a SJD and eventually get into academia probably in the US. And certainly going for a LLM with no financial aid would be almost impossible without getting into debt. Any thoughts, what would you do? Would I really get that many more chances if I opted for Harvard (provided I get accepted) than for Penn? Is H worth it?

So here is one of those never ending comparisons; I could really use any substantive opinion! I have received an offer for Penn Law with an Award of $27.500 waived from tuition fees (25k +2.5k from the summer program). If we assume I get into Harvard without knowing about financial aid until after Penns deadline, what would you suggest I do?

Just to make my situation a bit more clear, after the LLM I wish to apply for a SJD and eventually get into academia probably in the US. And certainly going for a LLM with no financial aid would be almost impossible without getting into debt. Any thoughts, what would you do? Would I really get that many more chances if I opted for Harvard (provided I get accepted) than for Penn? Is H worth it?
quote
Spikee7288...

Congratulations on your offer :-) Do you mind sharing if you received the offer by regular mail or by e-mail?

Congratulations on your offer :-) Do you mind sharing if you received the offer by regular mail or by e-mail?
quote
andyllop

Congrats Freckles ! It's an amazing offer! When did you receive the email from Penn ? Would you mind to share the information via PM ?

I'd definately take the Penn offer...In a heartbeat...

Congrats Freckles ! It's an amazing offer! When did you receive the email from Penn ? Would you mind to share the information via PM ?

I'd definately take the Penn offer...In a heartbeat...
quote
Stagista11

Definitively UPenn with a scholarship... If you're certain Harvard is in your future, you may always apply to their SJD program next year... Keep in mind that SJD programs, by the opposite token of PhD programs, are often poorly funded...

Definitively UPenn with a scholarship... If you're certain Harvard is in your future, you may always apply to their SJD program next year... Keep in mind that SJD programs, by the opposite token of PhD programs, are often poorly funded...
quote
amerfrance

Congrats, that's awesome. I'd be torn too! Harvard is such a great name that I really wouldn't know what to do. I'd ask attorneys in your country which school is better known and if the Harvard name would make a difference. 27.5K is a lot, but it can be recuperated by getting a good job.

Congrats, that's awesome. I'd be torn too! Harvard is such a great name that I really wouldn't know what to do. I'd ask attorneys in your country which school is better known and if the Harvard name would make a difference. 27.5K is a lot, but it can be recuperated by getting a good job.
quote
Freckles

Thank you everyone for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts! It is a very tough decision indeed, provided of course I hear back positively from H. To answer briefly a couple of questions posed:

- I received the offer via email, they call it the Dean's Scholarship Award and I suspect a couple were given out from the phrasing of the email (" the Committee has selected you as the recipient of a $25,000 Deans Scholarship") the "a" makes me assume so;

- I received it yesterday at around noon Philly time.

I hope I didn't forget to answer any questions, please feel free to PM me if you would like any more specific info! :)

Thank you everyone for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts! It is a very tough decision indeed, provided of course I hear back positively from H. To answer briefly a couple of questions posed:

- I received the offer via email, they call it the Dean's Scholarship Award and I suspect a couple were given out from the phrasing of the email (" the Committee has selected you as the recipient of a $25,000 Dean’s Scholarship") the "a" makes me assume so;

- I received it yesterday at around noon Philly time.

I hope I didn't forget to answer any questions, please feel free to PM me if you would like any more specific info! :)
quote
Oldtimer

If your plan is to get a JSD to then teach in the US, then Harvard may be a better bet. Why? Because there are, generally speaking, very few schools were professors come from. See http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

Moreover, be aware that it is statistically very difficult to pull it off. Somebody mentioned it above, but I think there is no chance of having your LLM in UPen and then doing the SJD in Harvard, because they rarely take people who haven't had the LLM with them (check their website!).

Good luck with your decision!

If your plan is to get a JSD to then teach in the US, then Harvard may be a better bet. Why? Because there are, generally speaking, very few schools were professors come from. See http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

Moreover, be aware that it is statistically very difficult to pull it off. Somebody mentioned it above, but I think there is no chance of having your LLM in UPen and then doing the SJD in Harvard, because they rarely take people who haven't had the LLM with them (check their website!).

Good luck with your decision!
quote
Good Gosh

i would go for hahvahd hands down..

i would go for hahvahd hands down..
quote
OK_Compute...

I would probably go fro Harvard, too, if you want to be a prof. I would note, however, that Leiter's ranking is limited to placements at the top law schools in the USA.

I would probably go fro Harvard, too, if you want to be a prof. I would note, however, that Leiter's ranking is limited to placements at the top law schools in the USA.
quote
Freckles

Thank you so much for this tip, it's a great source of information that I was unaware of! Interesting how the market works in the US then, I wonder if there would be a similar list for SJD's or PhD's as from what I understand this is just for JD's. Very very interesting report however, thanks again for it and for your thoughts!

Thank you so much for this tip, it's a great source of information that I was unaware of! Interesting how the market works in the US then, I wonder if there would be a similar list for SJD's or PhD's as from what I understand this is just for JD's. Very very interesting report however, thanks again for it and for your thoughts!
quote
Oldtimer

I remember once seeing something for the JSDs (very, very few by the way), but cannot remember where. Both okcomputer and you are right in pointing out that it is for JDs and a sample of top law schools, but It's hard to imagine situation for JSDs would be significantly different. Halo effect maybe?

I remember once seeing something for the JSDs (very, very few by the way), but cannot remember where. Both okcomputer and you are right in pointing out that it is for JDs and a sample of top law schools, but It's hard to imagine situation for JSDs would be significantly different. Halo effect maybe?
quote
Freckles

That's a possibility indeed that the trend follows the JDs path. However, given the JSD would be a higher degree than the JD (or at least that is my assumption by schools referring to it as "the most advanced degree in law") perhaps there the situation might differ albeit I would think not significantly. You are right though, such a reality is definitely a factor to take into serious consideration.

That's a possibility indeed that the trend follows the JDs path. However, given the JSD would be a higher degree than the JD (or at least that is my assumption by schools referring to it as "the most advanced degree in law") perhaps there the situation might differ albeit I would think not significantly. You are right though, such a reality is definitely a factor to take into serious consideration.
quote
Oldtimer

@ Freckles: On whether or not an sjd/JSD is worth:

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/09/sjd-programs-wo.html

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/05/jsd.html

Still trying to find the stats... By the way, I noticed that you were also admitted to Berkeley, which appears to be better with respect to UPen in terms of the professorship stats (yes, with all the caveats). Are you plainly dropping the option?

@ Freckles: On whether or not an sjd/JSD is worth:

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/09/sjd-programs-wo.html

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/05/jsd.html

Still trying to find the stats... By the way, I noticed that you were also admitted to Berkeley, which appears to be better with respect to UPen in terms of the professorship stats (yes, with all the caveats). Are you plainly dropping the option?
quote
Freckles

Oldtimer, thanks so much for your input in this. Very interesting discussion in this blog, I will be sure to revisit it when the question between choosing to go for a SJD or a PhD arises. So many factors weighted into one decision, at least these are beautiful decisions to make!

As far as Berkeley is concerned, I know it is a great school and it appears to be slightly better with the prof stats but Penn's Award and Ivy status seem to be more appealing at the present point. I feel that with such small margin between the two in terms of statistics it would come down more on individual performance in your class and research than anything else really.

Oldtimer, thanks so much for your input in this. Very interesting discussion in this blog, I will be sure to revisit it when the question between choosing to go for a SJD or a PhD arises. So many factors weighted into one decision, at least these are beautiful decisions to make!

As far as Berkeley is concerned, I know it is a great school and it appears to be slightly better with the prof stats but Penn's Award and Ivy status seem to be more appealing at the present point. I feel that with such small margin between the two in terms of statistics it would come down more on individual performance in your class and research than anything else really.
quote
Oldtimer

Check again the two links, including the comments. They go well beyond the JSD v. PHD issue. Only glad to help somebody else with a similar dilemma.

Good luck with your decision!

Check again the two links, including the comments. They go well beyond the JSD v. PHD issue. Only glad to help somebody else with a similar dilemma.

Good luck with your decision!
quote
ringirl

congrats Freckles!!
I would go for Penn without doubt.. for me a fee waive does help a lot, and personally I have never been interested in Harvard's program (even though it is top top number 1)...

I'm confident whatever you decide will be just fine.. you can't go wrong among 2 top ten schools.. I think what matters most is your profile, network and future plans.

Good luck again :)

congrats Freckles!!
I would go for Penn without doubt.. for me a fee waive does help a lot, and personally I have never been interested in Harvard's program (even though it is top top number 1)...

I'm confident whatever you decide will be just fine.. you can't go wrong among 2 top ten schools.. I think what matters most is your profile, network and future plans.

Good luck again :)
quote
Aky

First of all : Congratulations Freckles ! It's really awesome !!!


I would choose Harvard, without any doubt, or thinking 1 min !
Because, at the end, COME ON ! IT'S HARVARD !!! lol

I mean, even if UPenn is a great law school, Harvard is the upper level. It is more reknown, not only in USA, but all around the world.
When you tell someone "I was at Harvard", their reaction is always "woooow !"

When you look at the famous US News Law School Ranking, it's clearly the upper level :
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings
Harvard is number 2 and Upenn 7(with tie).

And let's be realistic, $27,5K is NOTHING in a lifetime. With Harvard, you would have more doors opened, more opportunities, and therefore you would recover those 27,5k (and even a lot more) really fast.

I know I speak of it with a certain amount of passion, but I also know that if I were at Harvard, even in 50years I would tell myself with a great smile "Hey Aky ! You've been to Harvard !!!" and I wouldn't even remember those 27,5K at that time...

First of all : Congratulations Freckles ! It's really awesome !!!


I would choose Harvard, without any doubt, or thinking 1 min !
Because, at the end, COME ON ! IT'S HARVARD !!! lol

I mean, even if UPenn is a great law school, Harvard is the upper level. It is more reknown, not only in USA, but all around the world.
When you tell someone "I was at Harvard", their reaction is always "woooow !"

When you look at the famous US News Law School Ranking, it's clearly the upper level :
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings
Harvard is number 2 and Upenn 7(with tie).

And let's be realistic, $27,5K is NOTHING in a lifetime. With Harvard, you would have more doors opened, more opportunities, and therefore you would recover those 27,5k (and even a lot more) really fast.

I know I speak of it with a certain amount of passion, but I also know that if I were at Harvard, even in 50years I would tell myself with a great smile "Hey Aky ! You've been to Harvard !!!" and I wouldn't even remember those 27,5K at that time...

quote
Freckles

Aky, thank you for your lovely response, it definitely put a smile on my face :) Well, let's see what the future unfolds then. I must admit that the 27.5k are highly tempting at the present point in time but you are right, Harvard is Harvard. Let's see where life takes me.

Aky, thank you for your lovely response, it definitely put a smile on my face :) Well, let's see what the future unfolds then. I must admit that the 27.5k are highly tempting at the present point in time but you are right, Harvard is Harvard. Let's see where life takes me.
quote
raven

beside that, I think there is a good chance that you might get some scholarship as well from Harvard.

beside that, I think there is a good chance that you might get some scholarship as well from Harvard.
quote
Borderline

It's a very tough choice.
However, if you decide upon not going to Penn, could you please tell them Borderline aka Ana is awesome, and really needs the scholarship? :)

On a more serious note, I'm worried because I haven't received any news regarding financial assistance.

It's a very tough choice.
However, if you decide upon not going to Penn, could you please tell them Borderline aka Ana is awesome, and really needs the scholarship? :)

On a more serious note, I'm worried because I haven't received any news regarding financial assistance.
quote

Reply to Post

Related Law Schools

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 890 Followers 493 Discussions
Cambridge, Massachusetts 1222 Followers 898 Discussions

Other Related Content

Hot Discussions