have been admitted to bcl at oxford and the corporate law llm at nyu. am primiarily looking to find a job in the us market. will the bcl in any way help in this? its a little difficult to choose nyu over oxford!

Pooj
Take it from a person with 14 years experience and the answer may surprise you - Oxford will be of more help to you in the USA than NYU...Why? Because the whole LLM qualification means nothing in the States (it is all about JD there) while Oxford=prestige. Americans are suckers for Oxbridge things and the only ones that beat Oxbridge is Har, Yale and, possibly, Columbia. With NYC degree you will be one of many, with Oxford you will have something unique....Plus you's save on time and costs
Best

Pooj
Take it from a person with 14 years experience and the answer may surprise you - Oxford will be of more help to you in the USA than NYU...Why? Because the whole LLM qualification means nothing in the States (it is all about JD there) while Oxford=prestige. Americans are suckers for Oxbridge things and the only ones that beat Oxbridge is Har, Yale and, possibly, Columbia. With NYC degree you will be one of many, with Oxford you will have something unique....Plus you's save on time and costs
Best

Thank you guys! The response does indeed surprise me! Just to be clear, a BCL would not even qualify me to sit for the NY bar. Why then would a US firm want to employ me?

LLM in NYU will also not give you the right to seat the bar...So from this point of view is the same situation...At your level (presumably you have limited or no work experience) it does not really matter, any good firm will give you time to pass the bar exam. They are not hiring you, they are hiring a "package"...So they can say "our staff went to Oxford" which looks good in clients' presentations...Rightly or wrongly people believe that hiring an Oxbridge grad they will be "hiring crem-de-la-crem" of students, with NYU they will be hiring a solid mid-range performer but not the upper crust...It is all about perceptions, not reality...Funny enough, if it was not USA but UK and not NYU, but perhaps Columbia, I would say the opposite. In the UK there are more people from Oxbridge and it is Har/Yale/Columbia="crem de la crem". NYU is still a solid mid-range

If you want a rigorous education: BCL, but only if you think you can get a distinction, otherwise it might reflect badly on your performance. NYU if the aim is to work in US long term and to have a more relaxed education (like most other US universities, no classification of LLM students) - though really if the aim is to work in the US, neither the BCL nor the LLM gets you far.

private_equity: You are wrong. LLM in NYU would indeed qualify me to take the bar.

Not that simple, Pooj. Read the small print. I think besides the LLM your previous educational background has to contain US law etc. Do not know if you have this. You are right in one thing, it will be easier for you to apply to take the bar, whether you will be given this right is another matter. I suggest you call the relevant authority, tell about your background and check for sure. However, my view still stands. What you can do is to check with Oxford whether you can then do an exchange with NYU etc. Cambridge has an exchange programme with Harvard...

Thanks, Private Equity. By the way, where did you go?

Cambridge

Many things to clarify here:
1. Job prospects in the US shouldn't be a determinant in ANY law school choice nowadays. Really.
2. It is VERY SIMPLE to assume eligible status to take the NY Bar exam if you do an LLM at NYU or any American law school. It doesn't work that way with any non-American law school, which of course includes the UK. Check it: http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm
3. You CANNOT even start planning a (even short) career in a the US big law firm market without taking the Bar, that is, unless you want to be a bilingual assistant or something like that. There used to be some 9-month internships for foreign trained lawyers that didn't require the Bar, they were pretty underpaid (for NY biglaw salaries), but appart from that are quite rare nowadays, with the collapse of the foreign-trained-lawyer's job market.

I agree with Private Equity. I've 22 years experience with a major US law firm. I've sat on the hiring committee off and on since I made partner. I'm taking a sabbatical to study tax law more because I want to take a break from practice as well as to ease my way into a corporate/transactional practice. I'm tired of litigation.

I don't know what kind of foundation you have in common law, but that is the most important criteria to pass a US bar exam (NY or elsewhere). If you have a strong foundation in common law and take an LLM in comparative law at a US university you would have the best chance of passing the NY bar exam. Note: Canadian students with JD (or LLB) degrees are fairly well prepared to take the US bar exam without an LLM (Ontario adopted the NY State corporations code as their provinical corporation law-at least they did 20 years ago--maybe it changed but the point is that our legal systems are very similar.) I've heard, but have no personal knowledge, that Australian law is very similar to US law as well. I know that US lawyers cite UK, Canadian and Australian cases in court. I personally have cited UK and Canadian case law in briefs I've filed with the court.

The bar exam in all states covers topics that are primarily taught in the first year and part of the second year of a traditional US JD law curriculum. Property, torts, contracts, civil procedure, criminal law and procedure, constitutional law, estates and trusts...Those are the legal subjects that comprise the bar exams in most states. Louisiana is a combination of civil and common law (state law civil; federal law common law). The topics listed above with the exception of civil procedure and parts of constitutional law are primarily based in common law. The LLM in comparative law (or whatever they call it at some schools) covers the above subjects which will prepare a foreign educated student to pass the NY bar exam. Some will have to do some additional study on their own but they have to basics necessary to pass the exam. So the most basic question is not whether you can take the NY bar exam, it is will the LLM prepare you to pass it.

I find it hard to believe that the foreign students that take specialized LLMs will be prepared to take the NY bar. Maybe I'm wrong. In any event, I'd go with the Oxford program. If you want to eventually take the NY bar exam make sure you cover as much common law as you can. You can always take an LLM in the US after Oxford. Plus with an Oxford degree you will be even more competitive as an applicant to US LLM programs both in terms of admissions and financial aid.

Just my take on it.

Ok let me put it this way. I do have a common law background having done my LLB in India. Assume, I take up the BCL this year. Am I even eligible then to sit for the NY bar. I think the answer is no. Only if I take a few courses (earn certain no. of credits) in a US LLM would I be eligible.

Right?

LLM in NYU will also not give you the right to seat the bar...So from this point of view is the same situation...

I don't know what kind of foundation you have in common law, but that is the most important criteria to pass a US bar exam (NY or elsewhere).

HI PoojaB and Oldtimer.
Oldtimer I don't disagree with what you are saying. However, I think it would be very difficult for someone from a noncommon law jurisdiction to study the topics on the bar exam--property for instance and the rules of perpetuity--and understand the rules. I guess it could be done. What about the state portion of the bar exam? I was fortunate enough to pass on the basis of my multi-state score alone, but the essay portion on day two required more than rote memory of common law rules. I think the purpose of a LLM in comparative law (or do they call it a general LLM-I don't really know) is to help foreign lawyers make the transition to US law by covering the legal subjects of the first year of law school (which I agree is all you need to pass the bar exam). I'd be interested in what foreign students who took the bar exam have to say.

PoojaB, being you have a legal education based in common law I do believe you would have an easier transition to learning US law. My opinion only. To take the bar I assume you would have to take a LLM or JD course. I can't say categorically because I don't know what each state's requirements are. I do think the Oxford course is more prestigious and will be an excellent education. I also think that it will be a more comprehensive education than an LLM. Again only my opinion based on my limited knowledge. I am sure that if you took the Oxford degree you would improve your attractiveness as a LLM candidate which, in turn, would open up opportunities for admission to the best LLM programs and eligibility for scholarships. However, you are the only one who can make the choice. In the end there is no bad choice.

Dear cmplxlitigator,

I never said passing the Bar exam was "easy". It was the worst two months of my life and the overall exam experience was dreadful. But passing the Bar is on the doable side if you put the effort, and the "noncommon law" jurisdiction lawyers tend to be rather good at memorizing, which helps a lot.

This being said, I fully agree with you on one thing. Passing the bar exam is says nothing about being a good lawyer in the US. And you would certanly be in a much better position to be a good lawyer in that jurisdiction if you get a first degree in a common law jurisdiction.

Oldtimer,

We are on the same page. I stumbled upon this page because I was taking a break from practice to go back to school. I remember how competitive it was to get a job out of law school but it was more about getting a job at the "right firm". These kids have it tough today. Reading their posts is an eye opener to say the least. They face incredible pressure to get a job and succeed in law. Although my guess is that a lot of them will discover that practicing law isn't all they thought it would be and that there are a lot of careers that they can put the excellent educations they have to good (maybe better) use. It will be interesting to meet some of them when I return to school.

Fully agree with you. And I would add the pressure of trying to move to a foreign country in the pursue of happiness (if such thing exists in a Law firm or the practice of law... ) ;) On the other hand, these new tools can really make a difference if you manage to listen carefully and avoid the herd mentality. How I wish I would have had access to all this advice when I was making my decisions!

By the way, I thought I was the only one considering to go back to law school in the middle of my career. We certainly have a different take on things and need to consider some pretty delicate issues (like what to do if you have kids and dealing with a partner). Maybe we should begin separate thread for the suicidal "oldies" like us. What do you think?

Jesus this thread is full of false information!

If you want to practice law in a US law firm, you will need the US bar.

An LLM in NYU will qualify you to sit for the NY bar, if you already have a law degree (civil law is fine) that allows you to sit the bar in your country.

In the current economic climate, with a NYU LLM and NY bar your chances of getting a US law firm job are still small, but with an Oxford BCL they will be much smaller.

This is the truth.