Maritime Law UK or USA


apurvap
hi,
I am from India and planning to apply for LLM for year 2011..

I am confused if I should apply to USA( tulane) or UK( southamton or UCL)

Anyone who can help.
hi,
I am from India and planning to apply for LLM for year 2011..

I am confused if I should apply to USA( tulane) or UK( southamton or UCL)

Anyone who can help.

quote
cruizh26
Tulane University in New Orleans has the strongest, by far program in Maritime and Admiralty Law. The UK and any other country follows what the US courts and scholars say about this topic.
No other country posses the maritime activity like the US, and Tulane University is located in the heart of this maritime world in the US. The staff. like no other in the world. Professionals with experience all around the world.

There is no doubt your best option in this subject will be Tulane University in New Orleans.

Best Wishes,
Tulane University in New Orleans has the strongest, by far program in Maritime and Admiralty Law. The UK and any other country follows what the US courts and scholars say about this topic.
No other country posses the maritime activity like the US, and Tulane University is located in the heart of this maritime world in the US. The staff. like no other in the world. Professionals with experience all around the world.

There is no doubt your best option in this subject will be Tulane University in New Orleans.

Best Wishes,
quote
tulane!

the fact that it's in new orleans should be enough. but if that's not enough, then consider the fact that tulane has a better reputation and elicits a better reaction than does southampton (which happens to be a bit of a dump, let's be honest!)...
tulane!

the fact that it's in new orleans should be enough. but if that's not enough, then consider the fact that tulane has a better reputation and elicits a better reaction than does southampton (which happens to be a bit of a dump, let's be honest!)...
quote
apurvap
Hey guys thanks for your opinion...........I will consider it.
Hey guys thanks for your opinion...........I will consider it.
quote
Comandante
UCL's Maritime Law programe is way better than any in the US. UCL and Southamption are better than any US program, and UCL better than Southampton. Not to mention that UCL is a top school (can't say the same about Tulane).

London is the center in world shipping and maritme law issues, if you look at any related contract (whether for shipping or the manufacture of vessels) or any arbitration agreement relating to the matter, the vast majority of them choose English Law and the English courts as their choice and law and forum respectively. Hence, to say that UK courts follow US laws in maritime/shipping law is preposterous and somewhat ignorant of the subject matter.
UCL's Maritime Law programe is way better than any in the US. UCL and Southamption are better than any US program, and UCL better than Southampton. Not to mention that UCL is a top school (can't say the same about Tulane).

London is the center in world shipping and maritme law issues, if you look at any related contract (whether for shipping or the manufacture of vessels) or any arbitration agreement relating to the matter, the vast majority of them choose English Law and the English courts as their choice and law and forum respectively. Hence, to say that UK courts follow US laws in maritime/shipping law is preposterous and somewhat ignorant of the subject matter.
quote
cruizh26
Dear mi comandante

The only real fact that takes place in the maritime world that makes london the center of something in this "subject matter" is regarding marine insurance, because its london (as part of the old world) where the business started. So, i can assure you as I have seen in practice no other than tradition makes london the center of only MARITIME INSURANCE law. American law and English law in this matter saw and shared for a long period of time similarities in their legal system regarding maritime cases based on tradition of course; until a very important case that shocked the maritime world (if you like me to provide more details about - just ask-) in which i think the US supreme court decided that not federal law with traditional rules accord with english law should apply when absent, it should be US State law over any other english guided principle should govern marine insurance cases. Which means: in a modern world, not the old one.. a lotttt a lootttt of litigation regarding this matter in different jurisdictions within the US....... which in the end means only one thing.. that it is in the US where lawyers litigate, get to practice, learn and develop new principles and theories that answer todays "shipping world" and THAT reflects a very good answer from very good schools such as Tulane University (LLM in Admiralty program) that speaks for itself.
I will anticipate that you will do some research about what i just said, so i will leave saying that a different view about marine insurance can only be supported scholars that are not satisfied with this intense system of practice, practice, and lawyering.. but i can tell you there is nothing better that to actually being able to talk and talk and litigate a subject matter that you try to master by studying and reading it every day. This is just about marine insurance, remember i can assure you my dear friend, that IT is in the US where all the business and shipping of maritime world its taken to another level. All this it is not merely tradition its called the "the leading market" or as we commonly refer "where the money is". I will finish by telling my indian friend this "if you would found yourself in the times of the leading romans, where would you rather to be around? its the same here, go where the leading people, the actual main stage is.. the United States of America. I wont discuss the reputation of UCL law school which needless to say its fair good.. not to the point of comparing it in general with top ranked US schools which would be more than unnecessary because the lists around the world speak by themselves and i am pretty sure that they back up in a sense everything i just stated about US v UK options specially in Maritime Law. London its a "very small aged oriented maritime world" that i cannot say fulfills my needs as a Maritime Lawyer.
And to respect about choice of law, dear comandante... you might want to read a little more about this topic because in this aspect the practice tells you totally the opposite, here's why: 90% of all arbitration, litigation takes place either in NY or in London... NY being a more open system which allows more litigation, defenses and even more structured regulations in arbitration matters makes the US the perfect place to choice of law or forum selection issues. And i think its a little bit cheaper than try to do it in London which i think brings more Maritime law issues to the new continent instead of London. There is plenty of staff in Tulane University that have been around both UK schools and US schools that you could contact to talk to you a little bit more about it.
Tulane Law School its a very good law school and in this field, Im happy to tell you that it is without a doubt, the strongest school on the planet. Well known all the way from greece to the china, and from china to panama. Panama its the nation with the largest number of registered vessels in the world which obviously demands a lot of legal effort and generates a whole more of international maritime litigation and contract law because of the canal.... and guess what, it is Tulane University professionals the ones opening the doors for all this to happen. You ll see the same inclination towards Tulane in many big ports cities such as Singapore, Shanghai, Kobe and all around the US.. i dont recall any big port or port city in London to be as big as any in the US or the ones around New Orleans area entry path of the Mississippi...
My Dear Indian friend, do not doubt that Tulane's University LLM in Admiralty its the strongest program in the world of Maritime Law and not only that!!!! did you know the Tulane University has the happiest body of students in the US? what does that tells you? I like London, i really do.. its such a nice city.. yeah, to go spend a few days in a expensive town and learn about aristocracy and lords and all kinds of stories which at the end they all wait until corporations and big movements in todays economy, politics from the United States lead their way.
Ask anything you want, go out keep doing more research you ll find out a lot about all this.. of that i am sure.. I ll see you someday in New Orleans "such a nice town"
May the Force be with you!
Dear mi comandante

The only real fact that takes place in the maritime world that makes london the center of something in this "subject matter" is regarding marine insurance, because its london (as part of the old world) where the business started. So, i can assure you as I have seen in practice no other than tradition makes london the center of only MARITIME INSURANCE law. American law and English law in this matter saw and shared for a long period of time similarities in their legal system regarding maritime cases based on tradition of course; until a very important case that shocked the maritime world (if you like me to provide more details about - just ask-) in which i think the US supreme court decided that not federal law with traditional rules accord with english law should apply when absent, it should be US State law over any other english guided principle should govern marine insurance cases. Which means: in a modern world, not the old one.. a lotttt a lootttt of litigation regarding this matter in different jurisdictions within the US....... which in the end means only one thing.. that it is in the US where lawyers litigate, get to practice, learn and develop new principles and theories that answer todays "shipping world" and THAT reflects a very good answer from very good schools such as Tulane University (LLM in Admiralty program) that speaks for itself.
I will anticipate that you will do some research about what i just said, so i will leave saying that a different view about marine insurance can only be supported scholars that are not satisfied with this intense system of practice, practice, and lawyering.. but i can tell you there is nothing better that to actually being able to talk and talk and litigate a subject matter that you try to master by studying and reading it every day. This is just about marine insurance, remember i can assure you my dear friend, that IT is in the US where all the business and shipping of maritime world its taken to another level. All this it is not merely tradition its called the "the leading market" or as we commonly refer "where the money is". I will finish by telling my indian friend this "if you would found yourself in the times of the leading romans, where would you rather to be around? its the same here, go where the leading people, the actual main stage is.. the United States of America. I wont discuss the reputation of UCL law school which needless to say its fair good.. not to the point of comparing it in general with top ranked US schools which would be more than unnecessary because the lists around the world speak by themselves and i am pretty sure that they back up in a sense everything i just stated about US v UK options specially in Maritime Law. London its a "very small aged oriented maritime world" that i cannot say fulfills my needs as a Maritime Lawyer.
And to respect about choice of law, dear comandante... you might want to read a little more about this topic because in this aspect the practice tells you totally the opposite, here's why: 90% of all arbitration, litigation takes place either in NY or in London... NY being a more open system which allows more litigation, defenses and even more structured regulations in arbitration matters makes the US the perfect place to choice of law or forum selection issues. And i think its a little bit cheaper than try to do it in London which i think brings more Maritime law issues to the new continent instead of London. There is plenty of staff in Tulane University that have been around both UK schools and US schools that you could contact to talk to you a little bit more about it.
Tulane Law School its a very good law school and in this field, Im happy to tell you that it is without a doubt, the strongest school on the planet. Well known all the way from greece to the china, and from china to panama. Panama its the nation with the largest number of registered vessels in the world which obviously demands a lot of legal effort and generates a whole more of international maritime litigation and contract law because of the canal.... and guess what, it is Tulane University professionals the ones opening the doors for all this to happen. You ll see the same inclination towards Tulane in many big ports cities such as Singapore, Shanghai, Kobe and all around the US.. i dont recall any big port or port city in London to be as big as any in the US or the ones around New Orleans area entry path of the Mississippi...
My Dear Indian friend, do not doubt that Tulane's University LLM in Admiralty its the strongest program in the world of Maritime Law and not only that!!!! did you know the Tulane University has the happiest body of students in the US? what does that tells you? I like London, i really do.. its such a nice city.. yeah, to go spend a few days in a expensive town and learn about aristocracy and lords and all kinds of stories which at the end they all wait until corporations and big movements in todays economy, politics from the United States lead their way.
Ask anything you want, go out keep doing more research you ll find out a lot about all this.. of that i am sure.. I ll see you someday in New Orleans "such a nice town"
May the Force be with you!
quote
Comandante
:)

I take it that you are another Panamanian who went to Tulane, this is understandable since many of you (who have an interest in shipping law) historically have ended going to Tulane, not because it is a "great school" but because the erstwhile Panama Canal Zone was under the legal jurisdiction of the 5th Federal Circuit Court (which covers Louisiana) and was also afforded jurisdiction over the PCZ, and hence saw a lot of litigation (prior to the Torrijos-Carter Treaty, subsequent to which the 5th Cir. gradually lost its jurisdiction over the Canal which was transferred to the Panamanian courts). On the other hand, Panamanian courts have only exercised jurisdiction for matters relating to the Canal for about 30-40 years or so (i.e. following the gradual implementation of the Treaty).

So, I can understand why you get a bit "flusterred" when faced with the prospect that Tulane is really not that big of a deal when it comes to anything legal. Well, at least nobody here in the States thinks much of it anyway.

On the other hand, lets get real, the importance of Panama (or the fact the its has one of the largest "flag of convenience" fleets in the world really has not much significance to international shipping law other that it provides alot of the plaintiffs/defendants in such ligitations (in most cases, the defendants). If this is the core of your argument, then Liberia (which boasts the next largest number of registered vessels) would be the next big thing when it comes to Shipping Law or have important jurisdicitional/legal influence in it, right? See how your argument here is deeply flawed and based on a false sense of national pride or self-importance?

Lets be real, Panama's own relevance in the field is limited to the fact that its courts provide an extremely convenient source of "In Rem" remedies over vessels located in its territorial waters (which includes the Canal), but "In Rem" jurisdiction is avaialble to any court in the world which finds the vessel within its territorial jurisdiction; Panama's distinction here being that you are more likely to find a vessel crossing (or scheduled to cross the Canal) than you are to find it anywhere else in the world (and hence making it statistically more probable to be able to successfully serve it with papers or levy it whilst in Panamanian waters).

So, here's the deal so far, Tulane, not really that impressive when it comes to Shipping Law education as you claim, and Panama, not really that important when it comes to international Shipping Law or litigation itself, either. I don't see people around the world go quoting decisions of the Panamanian courts when arguing legal precedents or rules in the field. And, again, as stated earlier, Panamanian courts have only exercised juridisction over the canal and hence any shipping/maritme issues arising thereof for,at most, forty-years (not that long when it comes to claiming "experience" or "expertise" from a jurisidictional perspective)....it takes a few more centuries to establish yourself as a reputable legal system that that.

As to your argument relating to Arbiration, both the UK and US are bound by "NY Convention" on International Arbitration, most shipping contracts (as which almost all other international contracts) elect the Convention over national arbitration rules, so the arbitration rules and procedures are extremely similiar if not the same. As to available remedies and "flexibility"; pardon my ignorance, but which remedies are available in the US which are not present in English Law?? (please let me know). And when it comes to "flexibility", are you referring to the fact that US Courts (NY in particular), are very willing to "re-write" contracts and impose such on the litigant parties?, something that the English courts or other all other common jurisdictions have refused adamantly to do (in order to respect the sanctity of the bargain and the intention of the parties to the contract themselves). Most of us involved in international litigation and contracts practice find this practive very scary as opposed to "flexible". If you find any parties to a contract who are "happy" with the prospect that a court will re-write their contract, take all their money and run!

But in any case, Ni un paso atras, mi Comandante!. ;)
:)

I take it that you are another Panamanian who went to Tulane, this is understandable since many of you (who have an interest in shipping law) historically have ended going to Tulane, not because it is a "great school" but because the erstwhile Panama Canal Zone was under the legal jurisdiction of the 5th Federal Circuit Court (which covers Louisiana) and was also afforded jurisdiction over the PCZ, and hence saw a lot of litigation (prior to the Torrijos-Carter Treaty, subsequent to which the 5th Cir. gradually lost its jurisdiction over the Canal which was transferred to the Panamanian courts). On the other hand, Panamanian courts have only exercised jurisdiction for matters relating to the Canal for about 30-40 years or so (i.e. following the gradual implementation of the Treaty).

So, I can understand why you get a bit "flusterred" when faced with the prospect that Tulane is really not that big of a deal when it comes to anything legal. Well, at least nobody here in the States thinks much of it anyway.

On the other hand, lets get real, the importance of Panama (or the fact the its has one of the largest "flag of convenience" fleets in the world really has not much significance to international shipping law other that it provides alot of the plaintiffs/defendants in such ligitations (in most cases, the defendants). If this is the core of your argument, then Liberia (which boasts the next largest number of registered vessels) would be the “next big thing” when it comes to Shipping Law or have important jurisdicitional/legal influence in it, right? See how your argument here is deeply flawed and based on a false sense of national pride or self-importance?

Let’s be real, Panama's own relevance in the field is limited to the fact that its courts provide an extremely convenient source of "In Rem" remedies over vessels located in its territorial waters (which includes the Canal), but "In Rem" jurisdiction is avaialble to any court in the world which finds the vessel within its territorial jurisdiction; Panama's distinction here being that you are more likely to find a vessel crossing (or scheduled to cross the Canal) than you are to find it anywhere else in the world (and hence making it statistically more probable to be able to successfully serve it with papers or levy it whilst in Panamanian waters).

So, here's the deal so far, Tulane, not really that impressive when it comes to Shipping Law education as you claim, and Panama, not really that important when it comes to international Shipping Law or litigation itself, either. I don't see people around the world go quoting decisions of the Panamanian courts when arguing legal precedents or rules in the field. And, again, as stated earlier, Panamanian courts have only exercised juridisction over the canal and hence any shipping/maritme issues arising thereof for,at most, forty-years (not that long when it comes to claiming "experience" or "expertise" from a jurisidictional perspective)....it takes a few more centuries to establish yourself as a reputable legal system that that.

As to your argument relating to Arbiration, both the UK and US are bound by "NY Convention" on International Arbitration, most shipping contracts (as which almost all other international contracts) elect the Convention over national arbitration rules, so the arbitration rules and procedures are extremely similiar if not the same. As to available remedies and "flexibility"; pardon my ignorance, but which remedies are available in the US which are not present in English Law?? (please let me know). And when it comes to "flexibility", are you referring to the fact that US Courts (NY in particular), are very willing to "re-write" contracts and impose such on the litigant parties?, something that the English courts or other all other common jurisdictions have refused adamantly to do (in order to respect the sanctity of the bargain and the intention of the parties to the contract themselves). Most of us involved in international litigation and contracts practice find this practive very scary as opposed to "flexible". If you find any parties to a contract who are "happy" with the prospect that a court will re-write their contract, take all their money and run!

But in any case, “Ni un paso atras, mi Comandante!”. ;)


quote
Alain
Anyone interested in maritime law take a closer look at the faculties and draw you own conclusions.

Also, this article is quite helpful: http://www.llm-guide.com/article/374/the-llm-in-maritime-law (and hababa's comment).
Anyone interested in maritime law take a closer look at the faculties and draw you own conclusions.

Also, this article is quite helpful: http://www.llm-guide.com/article/374/the-llm-in-maritime-law (and hababa's comment).
quote

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