LL.M in new york?


Flora
hello!
I will finish law in october 2007 in Switzerland and I would like to do a LL.M in NYC. Does anyone know a good University? I have more or less good marks but not fantastic... So I think, it won't be possible to be admitt in a very goog University. Does anybody know a University who accept also "normal" student?
Thank you,
Flora
hello!
I will finish law in october 2007 in Switzerland and I would like to do a LL.M in NYC. Does anyone know a good University? I have more or less good marks but not fantastic... So I think, it won't be possible to be admitt in a very goog University. Does anybody know a University who accept also "normal" student?
Thank you,
Flora
quote
anna81
If you grades and credentials are not so good, NYU will be perfect for you.

More than 450 students are currently enrolled in their LLM Program !!! (you can check this information on their website).

Of course, this means that they admit every year much more students since most of the people admitted to Yale, Stanford, Harvard, Columbia and some applicants admitted to other law schools like Chicago turn down their offer.

So, I think this is a very good option: NYU is not at all selective for its LLM Program but due to a very large alumni network, some people still believe this is a very prestigious LLM !!!

Another good reason to go to NYU : you will probably be able to study with more than 20 people from your own country if you are from China, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, etc

Last but not least, NYU loves LLM students : they account for a very significant part of the (financial) resources of this Law School!
If you grades and credentials are not so good, NYU will be perfect for you.

More than 450 students are currently enrolled in their LLM Program !!! (you can check this information on their website).

Of course, this means that they admit every year much more students since most of the people admitted to Yale, Stanford, Harvard, Columbia and some applicants admitted to other law schools like Chicago turn down their offer.

So, I think this is a very good option: NYU is not at all selective for its LLM Program but due to a very large alumni network, some people still believe this is a very prestigious LLM !!!

Another good reason to go to NYU : you will probably be able to study with more than 20 people from your own country if you are from China, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, etc…

Last but not least, NYU loves LLM students : they account for a very significant part of the (financial) resources of this Law School!
quote
Skadd
I completely agree with you anna.

My advice: Avoid NYU.

It is not a law school. It's a supermarket (at least for the LLM students).
I completely agree with you anna.

My advice: Avoid NYU.

It is not a law school. It's a supermarket (at least for the LLM students).
quote
ColumbiaJo...
My advice is to apply to all of them: Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Pace, NYLS, Brooklyn, etc.
My advice is to apply to all of them: Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Pace, NYLS, Brooklyn, etc.
quote
Mint
Well...I used to study in much smaller LLM program and current year I attend NYU...so , from my experience, I may be able to tell you something...

The only bad thing NYU has in my opinion is the size of the LLM program...450 students make it is difficult for students to know each other.

As to the fact that there are too many students, the school could not provide activities that would help students create relationship among students. ex most of the orientations were listening to the professors or NYU staffs explaining about NYU system and life at NYU. We just listened and listened and then went home.

Class like introduction to US law may help some students feeling better, but when the semester really begins.....students just scatter into some of class rooms...(also due to the fact that NYU provides hundred of classes) . After class, everybody just goes somewhere or library.

So the NYU students may stay only in a small group ( 2-3), but I have no idea of going out together, partying or doing something in big group.

Comparing to my old school which has only 80 general LLM students and 40 Tax LLM students --> we mostly know everybody in the program. The orientation provided various activities like games or sports....The activities along the semesters also were pretty good in gathering students together and making us enjoying the school life...its pretty much better than NYU in my opinion in terms of student relationships.


However, I can tell that 4 professors I study with in this semester at NYU are all good. The LLM students are more active in classes than that I found in my old school where there were mostly JD students trying to ask questions.

Additionally, the organization system in NYU is pretty good...if you want anything, you just go to some division, and they will try to help you...or even sometimes they did things I wanted before I had to tell them to do that for me. Comparing to my old school, I have to ask and ask and ask many many times, to get what I want. Or sometimes, I met the situation where some staff at the Int'l Office of my old school said to me that " you are not in my responsibility. You need to talk to xxx office" . ( I was in the tax program and the int'l office there said that they did not take care of any international students who are not in the General LLM --> strange!)

So for the educational and organization system, I can say that NYU wins! , but not about student relationship.
Well...I used to study in much smaller LLM program and current year I attend NYU...so , from my experience, I may be able to tell you something...

The only bad thing NYU has in my opinion is the size of the LLM program...450 students make it is difficult for students to know each other.

As to the fact that there are too many students, the school could not provide activities that would help students create relationship among students. ex most of the orientations were listening to the professors or NYU staffs explaining about NYU system and life at NYU. We just listened and listened and then went home.

Class like introduction to US law may help some students feeling better, but when the semester really begins.....students just scatter into some of class rooms...(also due to the fact that NYU provides hundred of classes) . After class, everybody just goes somewhere or library.

So the NYU students may stay only in a small group ( 2-3), but I have no idea of going out together, partying or doing something in big group.

Comparing to my old school which has only 80 general LLM students and 40 Tax LLM students --> we mostly know everybody in the program. The orientation provided various activities like games or sports....The activities along the semesters also were pretty good in gathering students together and making us enjoying the school life...its pretty much better than NYU in my opinion in terms of student relationships.


However, I can tell that 4 professors I study with in this semester at NYU are all good. The LLM students are more active in classes than that I found in my old school where there were mostly JD students trying to ask questions.

Additionally, the organization system in NYU is pretty good...if you want anything, you just go to some division, and they will try to help you...or even sometimes they did things I wanted before I had to tell them to do that for me. Comparing to my old school, I have to ask and ask and ask many many times, to get what I want. Or sometimes, I met the situation where some staff at the Int'l Office of my old school said to me that " you are not in my responsibility. You need to talk to xxx office" . ( I was in the tax program and the int'l office there said that they did not take care of any international students who are not in the General LLM --> strange!)

So for the educational and organization system, I can say that NYU wins! , but not about student relationship.
quote
450 LLM students at NYU each year??????

Is it true?

I can't believe it!
450 LLM students at NYU each year??????

Is it true?

I can't believe it!
quote
ivan2006
It is true. However, it should be borne in mind that not of them are all international students - for instance, almost all of the students that are enrolled in the General Tax Program are US students. Although the number sounds exagerated, I guess it all depends on your specialization: I am enrolled in the International Tax program and I have 27 colleagues. We all know each other and we get along very well. And I don´t have the impression (like one of the guys who submitted a post in this forum) that I am in a supermarket: on the contrary, I and glad to have colleagues specialized in my field of study that come from countries like Japan, China, Russia, Costa Rica, Brazil, India, Spain, Mexico, Belgium, Canada, Venezuela, Peru, France. Israel, Korea and Germany. It´s all about networking - and if I have some cross-border deal in the future, I will know who to call.
It is true. However, it should be borne in mind that not of them are all international students - for instance, almost all of the students that are enrolled in the General Tax Program are US students. Although the number sounds exagerated, I guess it all depends on your specialization: I am enrolled in the International Tax program and I have 27 colleagues. We all know each other and we get along very well. And I don´t have the impression (like one of the guys who submitted a post in this forum) that I am in a supermarket: on the contrary, I and glad to have colleagues specialized in my field of study that come from countries like Japan, China, Russia, Costa Rica, Brazil, India, Spain, Mexico, Belgium, Canada, Venezuela, Peru, France. Israel, Korea and Germany. It´s all about networking - and if I have some cross-border deal in the future, I will know who to call.
quote
Mint
Ivan2006

I feel a little bit different from you...it's probably because I am part of a few international students of the TTP. Additionally, it is pretty difficult to me to really have "friends" where students mostly stay in their national group, and what I can do is only saying "hello" and "how are you doing? to them.

last week, I had a chance to really talk with one student from Mexico (dont know TTP or ITP), he said " this is the first time, I really talk to somebody"....he said " I dont know whom to talk with. We have a chance to talk probably because we sit next to each other in class. Out of class, I have no idea about other people"....Yeh! You think like me!!

Anyway, I still insist that legal education at NYU is very impressive to me, so far. The amount of students does not cause any problem with teaching or studying.
Ivan2006

I feel a little bit different from you...it's probably because I am part of a few international students of the TTP. Additionally, it is pretty difficult to me to really have "friends" where students mostly stay in their national group, and what I can do is only saying "hello" and "how are you doing? to them.

last week, I had a chance to really talk with one student from Mexico (dont know TTP or ITP), he said " this is the first time, I really talk to somebody"....he said " I dont know whom to talk with. We have a chance to talk probably because we sit next to each other in class. Out of class, I have no idea about other people"....Yeh! You think like me!!

Anyway, I still insist that legal education at NYU is very impressive to me, so far. The amount of students does not cause any problem with teaching or studying.
quote
ivan2006
Hi Mint - are you enrolled in the GTP? Actually, I understand pretty well what you´re saying: among GTPs, competition is fierce, and the guys are not much in the mood of making friends... Perhaps it´s because most of them are American students that received their JDs, and the guys have a lot of debt to repay... Are you taking Steines´ class? If so, we ITPs are mostly in the right side of the class. C´mon by, and I´ll introduce you to the guys!
Btw, I guess I know who your Mexican colleague is - very nice guy indeed.
Hi Mint - are you enrolled in the GTP? Actually, I understand pretty well what you´re saying: among GTPs, competition is fierce, and the guys are not much in the mood of making friends... Perhaps it´s because most of them are American students that received their JDs, and the guys have a lot of debt to repay... Are you taking Steines´ class? If so, we ITPs are mostly in the right side of the class. C´mon by, and I´ll introduce you to the guys!
Btw, I guess I know who your Mexican colleague is - very nice guy indeed.
quote
anushka
450 LLM students at NYU each year??????

Is it true?

I can't believe it!


Yeh...we're 300 international students and 150 american...
(way too big for my taste)
<blockquote>450 LLM students at NYU each year??????

Is it true?

I can't believe it!</blockquote>

Yeh...we're 300 international students and 150 american...
(way too big for my taste)
quote
Jazzman
Columbia is very good - two friends of mine went there and rated it very highly.
Columbia is very good - two friends of mine went there and rated it very highly.
quote
Yes. You're right. Columbia is much more selective than NYU for its LLM Program.

By the way, do you know why NYU accept so many people?

I think it's a real problem. I am considering applying for an LLM Program in the US next year but all my friends tell me not to apply to NYU for this reason...

As a result, I will probably only apply to Columbia.

450 is simply too much.

Yes. You're right. Columbia is much more selective than NYU for its LLM Program.

By the way, do you know why NYU accept so many people?

I think it's a real problem. I am considering applying for an LLM Program in the US next year but all my friends tell me not to apply to NYU for this reason...

As a result, I will probably only apply to Columbia.

450 is simply too much.
quote
rah23
I am currently at NYU pursuing an LLM in International Legal Studies. I had been admitted to universities that were "more selective" than NYU and still chose to come here. I wouldn't discount schools based merely on their selectivity - indeed this may be a factor that would militate in favour of applying to certain schools.

Most relevant is the quality of education at a school. If you look at the US News and World Report Survey, you will note that (aside from admitting a lot of LLMs) NYU admits the highest percentage of JD applicants out of the top ten - this has not hindered the quality of education, nor the reputation of the school.

Indeed, there are many highly qualified people that attend NYU, and many highly qualified faculty. I chose NYU because I think it has the best International Law faculty in the world. Being here, and having taken some classes with these professors reinforces this view.

If you are concerned with knowing everyone in your class, then I would ask how important that consideration really is. No matter where you go, there are only a certain number of individuals that one can actually get to know in a year. You are bound to make some close friends, and many acquaintances no matter where you end up. The number of each will likely be the same regardless of how many students there are at your school.

If anyone has any questions on the actual merits of the programs here at NYU, I would be happy to answer those questions - especially since I find those queries much more relevant to deciding where to attend.

Good luck with applications!
I am currently at NYU pursuing an LLM in International Legal Studies. I had been admitted to universities that were "more selective" than NYU and still chose to come here. I wouldn't discount schools based merely on their selectivity - indeed this may be a factor that would militate in favour of applying to certain schools.

Most relevant is the quality of education at a school. If you look at the US News and World Report Survey, you will note that (aside from admitting a lot of LLMs) NYU admits the highest percentage of JD applicants out of the top ten - this has not hindered the quality of education, nor the reputation of the school.

Indeed, there are many highly qualified people that attend NYU, and many highly qualified faculty. I chose NYU because I think it has the best International Law faculty in the world. Being here, and having taken some classes with these professors reinforces this view.

If you are concerned with knowing everyone in your class, then I would ask how important that consideration really is. No matter where you go, there are only a certain number of individuals that one can actually get to know in a year. You are bound to make some close friends, and many acquaintances no matter where you end up. The number of each will likely be the same regardless of how many students there are at your school.

If anyone has any questions on the actual merits of the programs here at NYU, I would be happy to answer those questions - especially since I find those queries much more relevant to deciding where to attend.

Good luck with applications!
quote
ivan2006
Agree with Rah. And I would like to add something: if you´re accepted into any of the top US universities (the US News ranking is the most cited reference), you cannot go wrong. Having that said, you should think about where to find the best in your field of study: perhaps you´ll find the best professors in Corporate Law at Columbia, the best in taxation and international studies at NYU, the best in IP at Stanford, and the best in Law and Economy at the University of Chicago, and great, great professors at several universities - Yale, Harvard, Georgetown, Michigan, etc. For instance, if your field is taxation, if you study at Columbia you will have no advantage over an NYU tax student vis-à-vis the US legal market. In addition to that, size is nice, but suppose you´re the only LLM student specializing in e.g. constitutional law in an university that has a small LLM program like, let´s say, UChicago. Sincerely, I don´t think you´re know more people if you have no other LLM attending the same classes... Of course, I could be wrong. Conclusion: size is relative. Focus on the faculty. Then think of other factors that influence your decision, like brand prestige, career plans or location.
Agree with Rah. And I would like to add something: if you´re accepted into any of the top US universities (the US News ranking is the most cited reference), you cannot go wrong. Having that said, you should think about where to find the best in your field of study: perhaps you´ll find the best professors in Corporate Law at Columbia, the best in taxation and international studies at NYU, the best in IP at Stanford, and the best in Law and Economy at the University of Chicago, and great, great professors at several universities - Yale, Harvard, Georgetown, Michigan, etc. For instance, if your field is taxation, if you study at Columbia you will have no advantage over an NYU tax student vis-à-vis the US legal market. In addition to that, size is nice, but suppose you´re the only LLM student specializing in e.g. constitutional law in an university that has a small LLM program like, let´s say, UChicago. Sincerely, I don´t think you´re know more people if you have no other LLM attending the same classes... Of course, I could be wrong. Conclusion: size is relative. Focus on the faculty. Then think of other factors that influence your decision, like brand prestige, career plans or location.
quote
CNB
Newbie here...Canadian trying to decide on an educational path.
In 3rd year of UG program with a GPA of 4.2/4.3.
Writing LSAT in a week, today PT # 44 got a 177, and have an average over last 5 tests of 176.
I love the look of the IILJ @ NYU and am trying to decide between applying for a Canadian LLB program (and possible full scholarship) followed by an LLM at the NYU or applying to NYU for the JD/LLM, with a much lower expectation of scholarship $$.
Do most people go immediately to the LLM programs prior to articling and writing for the bar, or article/bar then LLM?
After the LLM, is it "easier" to get a good article?
In Canada, I can apply for LS after only a few years of UG, and I'm considering doing that route, followed by LLM. It would take the same number of years as finishing UG, then JD in US.
Any advice would be graetly appreciated.
Thanks
Newbie here...Canadian trying to decide on an educational path.
In 3rd year of UG program with a GPA of 4.2/4.3.
Writing LSAT in a week, today PT # 44 got a 177, and have an average over last 5 tests of 176.
I love the look of the IILJ @ NYU and am trying to decide between applying for a Canadian LLB program (and possible full scholarship) followed by an LLM at the NYU or applying to NYU for the JD/LLM, with a much lower expectation of scholarship $$.
Do most people go immediately to the LLM programs prior to articling and writing for the bar, or article/bar then LLM?
After the LLM, is it "easier" to get a good article?
In Canada, I can apply for LS after only a few years of UG, and I'm considering doing that route, followed by LLM. It would take the same number of years as finishing UG, then JD in US.
Any advice would be graetly appreciated.
Thanks
quote
globe
Although the quality of the legal education at NYU is great, I can't help thinking that NYU is some kind of a "supermarket" as someone else stated above. Too many students, so you have little contact with the rest of the class, not to mention that the sheer number of students makes it difficult for professors to remember you (you're just one out of 400+ students) so it is difficult for them to recommend you to anybody as they can't remember you !

And let's not forget that quantity has an impact on value of things : something rare has value, and something available in abundance has little value. As there are over 400 students with the same degree from the same university applying for the same jobs, it becomes very difficult for foreigners to get a job in the US ! There are simply too many people with similar credentials competing for the same jobs ! On the other hand, law schools which are far more selective have better job placements for LLMs because they are not churning out studentd by the hundreds.

I know people who turned down offers from NYU and were glad of their decision - they managed to get a job in the US after going to a more selective school (Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Chicago, etc. and even lower ranked schools like Fordham) whereas their classmates who had better grades and had more work experience failed to land a job in the US because of the above reasons !
Although the quality of the legal education at NYU is great, I can't help thinking that NYU is some kind of a "supermarket" as someone else stated above. Too many students, so you have little contact with the rest of the class, not to mention that the sheer number of students makes it difficult for professors to remember you (you're just one out of 400+ students) so it is difficult for them to recommend you to anybody as they can't remember you !

And let's not forget that quantity has an impact on value of things : something rare has value, and something available in abundance has little value. As there are over 400 students with the same degree from the same university applying for the same jobs, it becomes very difficult for foreigners to get a job in the US ! There are simply too many people with similar credentials competing for the same jobs ! On the other hand, law schools which are far more selective have better job placements for LLMs because they are not churning out studentd by the hundreds.

I know people who turned down offers from NYU and were glad of their decision - they managed to get a job in the US after going to a more selective school (Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Chicago, etc. and even lower ranked schools like Fordham) whereas their classmates who had better grades and had more work experience failed to land a job in the US because of the above reasons !
quote
NYU is an amazing school. Prestige is prestige and NYU has tons of it. That said, if you are the type of person who would feel lost in such a big city or want a small school, it is perfectly reasonable to decide to go elsewhere.
NYU is an amazing school. Prestige is prestige and NYU has tons of it. That said, if you are the type of person who would feel lost in such a big city or want a small school, it is perfectly reasonable to decide to go elsewhere.
quote
rah23
I disagree that you can't get to know your professors. Just as there are a lot of students here, there are more faculty than most other schools, so the ratio of students to faculty is not that different from most schools.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different LLMs at NYU. For example, I'm doing the LLM in International Legal Studies and there are only 75 of us in that program. I already know many of the students in the program. All of us doing an LLM at NYU aren't seeking attention from the same faculty members - rather, just of the faculty that cater to our specialized areas. My largest class is 50 students and my smallest is 15 students. Most of my professors know me by name already.

On the job side of things. I can't think of a more marketable LLM in the world than the NYU Tax LLM - I think they all get amazing jobs. I bet that the rest of us have an equal shot as those at other top schools at getting jobs. Firms, NGOs etc. look at the whole package - not just where you did your LLM. As a matter of fact, I would say that what you did before your LLM is often more important than the school you attend for your LLM. Again, if you go to any good school, with good professors and a decent reputation, you have just as a good a shot at getting the good jobs as anyone else. I have had a couple interviews with management consulting firms and there were law students (JDs and LLMs) there from all of the top 10 schools. There is little discrimination between the top tier schools.

Of course, I agree with Denny though - a big school and/or big city is not for everyone.

CNB,

I did UG in 3 years in Canada, did law school in Canada then came down here. If I were to do things over, I would have come here for my JD as well.

If I were you I would look into Osgoode's JD/LLB combined degree with NYU. I would also apply to the JD/LLM program at NYU - some really bright people in that program.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.
I disagree that you can't get to know your professors. Just as there are a lot of students here, there are more faculty than most other schools, so the ratio of students to faculty is not that different from most schools.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different LLMs at NYU. For example, I'm doing the LLM in International Legal Studies and there are only 75 of us in that program. I already know many of the students in the program. All of us doing an LLM at NYU aren't seeking attention from the same faculty members - rather, just of the faculty that cater to our specialized areas. My largest class is 50 students and my smallest is 15 students. Most of my professors know me by name already.

On the job side of things. I can't think of a more marketable LLM in the world than the NYU Tax LLM - I think they all get amazing jobs. I bet that the rest of us have an equal shot as those at other top schools at getting jobs. Firms, NGOs etc. look at the whole package - not just where you did your LLM. As a matter of fact, I would say that what you did before your LLM is often more important than the school you attend for your LLM. Again, if you go to any good school, with good professors and a decent reputation, you have just as a good a shot at getting the good jobs as anyone else. I have had a couple interviews with management consulting firms and there were law students (JDs and LLMs) there from all of the top 10 schools. There is little discrimination between the top tier schools.

Of course, I agree with Denny though - a big school and/or big city is not for everyone.

CNB,

I did UG in 3 years in Canada, did law school in Canada then came down here. If I were to do things over, I would have come here for my JD as well.

If I were you I would look into Osgoode's JD/LLB combined degree with NYU. I would also apply to the JD/LLM program at NYU - some really bright people in that program.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.
quote
hi ...i have been reading d above stated discussions...well i need some advice...i am from india i compleated my law school here in india in 2002 and now m planing to do an llm from new york i have almost 4 and a half years of practical experiance as a litigation lawyer..what are my cahnces if i apply for llm @ nyu fordham hofta.. coz they are the only ones left..deadlines for the other schools ahve already expired...another thing i want 2 know is what are the job prospects in the US after i complete my llm from new york from one of the schools mentioned above and do i need to give the new york bar exam to get any job i mean is it mandatory to be admitted to the bar if u want to do a job in the US after doing an llm any suggessions would be welcome my email is devansahni@gmail.com
hi ...i have been reading d above stated discussions...well i need some advice...i am from india i compleated my law school here in india in 2002 and now m planing to do an llm from new york i have almost 4 and a half years of practical experiance as a litigation lawyer..what are my cahnces if i apply for llm @ nyu fordham hofta.. coz they are the only ones left..deadlines for the other schools ahve already expired...another thing i want 2 know is what are the job prospects in the US after i complete my llm from new york from one of the schools mentioned above and do i need to give the new york bar exam to get any job i mean is it mandatory to be admitted to the bar if u want to do a job in the US after doing an llm any suggessions would be welcome my email is devansahni@gmail.com
quote
josepidal
I've always thought that complaints about the size of an LLM class can become immature. Consider that many people want to work in big New York law firms whose New York offices have hundreds of lawyers. Consider too that any law school will have far more JD students than LLMs, and one would want to meet them as well.

Meeting people, as with many other things in an LLM program, can be a function of the effort you put into it.

Of course, I said they can be. Some people are more comfortable and more disposed towards a smaller group and its intrinsic advantages.
I've always thought that complaints about the size of an LLM class can become immature. Consider that many people want to work in big New York law firms whose New York offices have hundreds of lawyers. Consider too that any law school will have far more JD students than LLMs, and one would want to meet them as well.

Meeting people, as with many other things in an LLM program, can be a function of the effort you put into it.

Of course, I said they can be. Some people are more comfortable and more disposed towards a smaller group and its intrinsic advantages.
quote

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