Hypothetical Can a UK LLB + LLM(NYU) defeat a JD


Will a large NYC international firm hire a candidate with:
-Bachelors of Science Degree in Business from a U.S. University
-LLB from the University of Birmingham, UK
and an LLM from NYU.
-Passed NY State Bar Exam.

OR will he not get hired because he does not have a JD ?

The candidate is also 30, male, and a natural-born U.S. citizen.
Will a large NYC international firm hire a candidate with:
-Bachelors of Science Degree in Business from a U.S. University
-LLB from the University of Birmingham, UK
and an LLM from NYU.
-Passed NY State Bar Exam.

OR will he not get hired because he does not have a JD ?

The candidate is also 30, male, and a natural-born U.S. citizen.
quote
Mint
Of Course, if you get all A or A -

One of my British friend has a LLB from UK and LLM from NYU. She got a job in big law firm in NYC during her Spring semester of an LLM, even though she has not taken the bar exam yet. Her grades from LLM is composed of all A and some A-.
Of Course, if you get all A or A -

One of my British friend has a LLB from UK and LLM from NYU. She got a job in big law firm in NYC during her Spring semester of an LLM, even though she has not taken the bar exam yet. Her grades from LLM is composed of all A and some A-.
quote
So a NYU JD graduate can get into a big firm with crappy grades, but a the person I described would have to go crazy to get As in order to work in a big firm ?

Hmmm ??
So a NYU JD graduate can get into a big firm with crappy grades, but a the person I described would have to go crazy to get As in order to work in a big firm ?

Hmmm ??
quote
Mint
So a NYU JD graduate can get into a big firm with crappy grades, but a the person I described would have to go crazy to get As in order to work in a big firm ?

Hmmm ??



Both JD and LLM might not get any job if they both get crappy GPA. However, we should not compare international grads with only an LLM to domestic grads with a JD. They are in different situation, and, in normal, LLM is less favorable for a law firm than a JD. So if you want to get job in a big law firm, it means you need to make yourself attractive enough. GPA is , of course, one way. There are other factors to help int'l grads breaking into a law firm, ex., personality, not too bad GPA, working background, good interview and country where they are from. However, GPA is one of the most attractive factors, of course. It hits employers' eyes first.

Nonetheless, when you have two candidates, JD with crappy GPA and LLM with crappy GPA, who will you first be interested in??? JD is better. So then its your task to show them that you are better than that JD guy.

Personality is also important. The person I said in prior post has a very interesting and attractive personality to employer . Thus, combining with her GPA, it's not that difficult for her to get offers from various law firms.
<blockquote>So a NYU JD graduate can get into a big firm with crappy grades, but a the person I described would have to go crazy to get As in order to work in a big firm ?

Hmmm ??</blockquote>


Both JD and LLM might not get any job if they both get crappy GPA. However, we should not compare international grads with only an LLM to domestic grads with a JD. They are in different situation, and, in normal, LLM is less favorable for a law firm than a JD. So if you want to get job in a big law firm, it means you need to make yourself attractive enough. GPA is , of course, one way. There are other factors to help int'l grads breaking into a law firm, ex., personality, not too bad GPA, working background, good interview and country where they are from. However, GPA is one of the most attractive factors, of course. It hits employers' eyes first.

Nonetheless, when you have two candidates, JD with crappy GPA and LLM with crappy GPA, who will you first be interested in??? JD is better. So then its your task to show them that you are better than that JD guy.

Personality is also important. The person I said in prior post has a very interesting and attractive personality to employer . Thus, combining with her GPA, it's not that difficult for her to get offers from various law firms.
quote
I am talking about large international firms in New York. Not the ones that care about domestic issues. Plus the person I am talking about is a U.S. citizen.
I am talking about large international firms in New York. Not the ones that care about domestic issues. Plus the person I am talking about is a U.S. citizen.
quote
dannyh
I think you exagerate the need to have good grades. Having only A is nice of course, but it is not an absolute requirement to get a job. Don't get me wrong: of course, you can forget about job search if you have for example a D. What I am trying to say is that everything is not lost if you have one or a few B.

One of my friends (an American citizen, got an LLB in UK because she wanted to save money as she thought getting a JD was too expensive for her, then did an LLM in the US) got a job in a big, international law firm in NYC. Although she does have some A and A-, she also has 2 B+ and 1 B.

Another friend of mine, from Spain, got 3 B and a B+, and also got his job in NYC before even sitting for the NY bar exam.

In comparison, some of my friends with better grades did not get a job (including one who had only A-). I can also give examples of people from slightly lower ranked schools who got a job in NYC (despite not having only A or A-), but it will be too repetitive.

I think people tend to assume that their grades were the only reason they did not get a job offer, even though the recruiter never said there was anything wrong about the grades.

You surely heard the expression : "one size does not fit all", well here is the same. Grades are not everything. Instead, people should also look at the other factors which are very important too : country where they are from, personality, not too bad GPA, degrees obtained in their home country (including in fields of study other than law), working background, pleasant interview, etc. For example, a person with a scientific degree or a doctorate degree may "defeat" a J.D. student.

And of course it helps a lot if the person studied in a common law country (the concepts are very much the same as in the US) and if you have a US citizenship (because the firm will not have to go into the lengthy process of obtaining an employment visa, which entails costs for the firm).
I think you exagerate the need to have good grades. Having only A is nice of course, but it is not an absolute requirement to get a job. Don't get me wrong: of course, you can forget about job search if you have for example a D. What I am trying to say is that everything is not lost if you have one or a few B.

One of my friends (an American citizen, got an LLB in UK because she wanted to save money as she thought getting a JD was too expensive for her, then did an LLM in the US) got a job in a big, international law firm in NYC. Although she does have some A and A-, she also has 2 B+ and 1 B.

Another friend of mine, from Spain, got 3 B and a B+, and also got his job in NYC before even sitting for the NY bar exam.

In comparison, some of my friends with better grades did not get a job (including one who had only A-). I can also give examples of people from slightly lower ranked schools who got a job in NYC (despite not having only A or A-), but it will be too repetitive.

I think people tend to assume that their grades were the only reason they did not get a job offer, even though the recruiter never said there was anything wrong about the grades.

You surely heard the expression : "one size does not fit all", well here is the same. Grades are not everything. Instead, people should also look at the other factors which are very important too : country where they are from, personality, not too bad GPA, degrees obtained in their home country (including in fields of study other than law), working background, pleasant interview, etc. For example, a person with a scientific degree or a doctorate degree may "defeat" a J.D. student.

And of course it helps a lot if the person studied in a common law country (the concepts are very much the same as in the US) and if you have a US citizenship (because the firm will not have to go into the lengthy process of obtaining an employment visa, which entails costs for the firm).
quote
Would one or two Ds, and throw in a C, deny a person from a large NYC international firm even if the person has alot of As and Bs ?
Would one or two Ds, and throw in a C, deny a person from a large NYC international firm even if the person has alot of As and Bs ?
quote
pln
Oh NO! D?! Your life is over now... You might as well go find a blue magic marker and start coloring your collars!

Come on you guys, grades are for the most part irrelevant. The only thing that really matters in your first job hunt is academic honors, class rank, and prestige of your law school, and law review if you were a JD [and connections if you have any.]
Oh NO! D?! Your life is over now... You might as well go find a blue magic marker and start coloring your collars!

Come on you guys, grades are for the most part irrelevant. The only thing that really matters in your first job hunt is academic honors, class rank, and prestige of your law school, and law review if you were a JD [and connections if you have any.]
quote
Mint
I didnt say that GPA is the only reason why they pick you. I said there are other factors, ex. personality, to help you get into a big law firm.

From what I have seen, if you have good grades, it is much easier to get in ( if you do not have bad personality or other bad factors to kill your profile). These people, i.e., good GPA and other ok profiles, tend to get jobs faster. I means GPA hits the employers' eyes first, but I didnt mean that they will pick that AAAA guy even though he is very crappy in personality.

I also see some examples of OK GPA (not lower than 3.00) , US citizen, but with LLB from UK. She is in Top 10 law school (even though not NYU, but Top 10 law school should be not much different anyway) and she still couldnt get job during summer. I dont know what happened to her after that. Another LLB (UK) also did not get job as fast as the first one I said. I and my friend assumes that it is because of her weird personality even though she had reasonable good GPA.

In my class, everyone who have a JD (plus LLM) get jobs during their first semester even those whose LLM grades are average, and their citizenship is irrelevant at all. Some of my friends even still speak English with Chinese pronunciation. For those only with an LLM, some got jobs and some still do not get jobs until now. And I know why some of them got jobs. During the class they showed full capability of studying and working. When we combine it with their good GPA, why didnt they get job? . Those with not so ok GPA, now, its time how much they can show during the interview to overweight their GPA.

Even though everyone of my class (with a JD) got jobs, I still can see the difference regarding GPA. Some with very good GPA (only A and A- and fews B+), got jobs in Top 15 Law firms in NYC. Some with average GPA got jobs in average law firms and accounting firms. When there are many candidates, the big law firms always hunt top grads, unless the average GPA is really impressive in other ways.

I give more weigh to having a JD than having an LLM. However, having LLB from UK is not bad and if you have some other things to help, you surely get job. Besides, I personally think school name does not help that much for an LLM if yourself is not satisfying enough.

In brief, there is no certain factor that will help you get jobs. GPA hits first when employers see a resume, but it does mean that it is the only reason of the world. I am just saying of the "nature" of people. They kinda catch the thing that is expressly good first, but employers don't stupid enough to only look at good GPA grads. Those who have average GPA still can get jobs in big law firm, if they can show employers some other good things. That's why it is not surprise why there are average GPA grads in a big law firm.

Dont misunderstand that I cut off the average GPA from getting job. In my first post, I just confirm you that if the LLM has good GPA, he or she has certain chance to get job because it is the basic and easy factor for employers when they dont know you that much (unless there is something in your profile that is not satisfying enough or you are fighting with the JD with reasonable good GPA as you and there is only one seat in that firm).
I didnt say that GPA is the only reason why they pick you. I said there are other factors, ex. personality, to help you get into a big law firm.

From what I have seen, if you have good grades, it is much easier to get in ( if you do not have bad personality or other bad factors to kill your profile). These people, i.e., good GPA and other ok profiles, tend to get jobs faster. I means GPA hits the employers' eyes first, but I didnt mean that they will pick that AAAA guy even though he is very crappy in personality.

I also see some examples of OK GPA (not lower than 3.00) , US citizen, but with LLB from UK. She is in Top 10 law school (even though not NYU, but Top 10 law school should be not much different anyway) and she still couldnt get job during summer. I dont know what happened to her after that. Another LLB (UK) also did not get job as fast as the first one I said. I and my friend assumes that it is because of her weird personality even though she had reasonable good GPA.

In my class, everyone who have a JD (plus LLM) get jobs during their first semester even those whose LLM grades are average, and their citizenship is irrelevant at all. Some of my friends even still speak English with Chinese pronunciation. For those only with an LLM, some got jobs and some still do not get jobs until now. And I know why some of them got jobs. During the class they showed full capability of studying and working. When we combine it with their good GPA, why didnt they get job? . Those with not so ok GPA, now, its time how much they can show during the interview to overweight their GPA.

Even though everyone of my class (with a JD) got jobs, I still can see the difference regarding GPA. Some with very good GPA (only A and A- and fews B+), got jobs in Top 15 Law firms in NYC. Some with average GPA got jobs in average law firms and accounting firms. When there are many candidates, the big law firms always hunt top grads, unless the average GPA is really impressive in other ways.

I give more weigh to having a JD than having an LLM. However, having LLB from UK is not bad and if you have some other things to help, you surely get job. Besides, I personally think school name does not help that much for an LLM if yourself is not satisfying enough.

In brief, there is no certain factor that will help you get jobs. GPA hits first when employers see a resume, but it does mean that it is the only reason of the world. I am just saying of the "nature" of people. They kinda catch the thing that is expressly good first, but employers don't stupid enough to only look at good GPA grads. Those who have average GPA still can get jobs in big law firm, if they can show employers some other good things. That's why it is not surprise why there are average GPA grads in a big law firm.

Dont misunderstand that I cut off the average GPA from getting job. In my first post, I just confirm you that if the LLM has good GPA, he or she has certain chance to get job because it is the basic and easy factor for employers when they dont know you that much (unless there is something in your profile that is not satisfying enough or you are fighting with the JD with reasonable good GPA as you and there is only one seat in that firm).
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