Goodbye to the LLM


Dumdedum
Just wanna comment on the last sentence without getting in the argument. F-1 is for regular students. J-1 is for phd and things like that. F1 is the one most LLM's have.
Just wanna comment on the last sentence without getting in the argument. F-1 is for regular students. J-1 is for phd and things like that. F1 is the one most LLM's have.
wolla
Just wanna comment on the last sentence without getting in the argument. F-1 is for regular students. J-1 is for phd and things like that. F1 is the one most LLM's have.


Sorry, got the two mixed up. I'm applying for the F1, i.e. without the "home residency requirement" aka the "quaranteen" of the J1, cf. John's comment.
<blockquote>Just wanna comment on the last sentence without getting in the argument. F-1 is for regular students. J-1 is for phd and things like that. F1 is the one most LLM's have.</blockquote>

Sorry, got the two mixed up. I'm applying for the F1, i.e. without the "home residency requirement" aka the "quaranteen" of the J1, cf. John's comment.
Dumdedum
right, i think what he meant was that in general it is advisable not to say that you want to go for long term duration at the embassy interview, but i get what you're saying.
right, i think what he meant was that in general it is advisable not to say that you want to go for long term duration at the embassy interview, but i get what you're saying.
Yme
Dumdedum
No, generally it shouldn't be any problem.
No, generally it shouldn't be any problem.
Wolla
If you prefer and confine your reasonings to discuss the substance of the arguments/ suggestions made in the thread then I assume you can learn and educate yourself and make some realistic decisions, instead of just behaving like a cry baby and tracing number of posts and history of the forum participants. If you really can have somethings to say then say whats incorrect in the reasons mentioned in the thread and educate guys here who need to know the difference between state of economy and related job opportunities for LLMs and for god sakes don't just talk like a guy who is on crack, and first thing he does as part of his due diligence is to go back and click on profile of a poster and trace post history and number of posts made by him/her. That may help you and if you think citing these kind of absurdity you making a point then god bless you, and I am happy to know that you've decided to go back after LLM because I don't see any thing for you In US and you'll have hard time finding something to ponder upon. And one more things, please consult some Immigration cosultant before going to embassy for interview because I observed that you mixed up small things like visa category etc so its always advisable to talk to somebody what exactly you need to say if you asked certain tricky questions by the visa officer. And yes, the other poster is absolutely correct that all undergraduate and graduate degrees are pursued under F-1 category for purpose of visa classifications.
Wolla
If you prefer and confine your reasonings to discuss the substance of the arguments/ suggestions made in the thread then I assume you can learn and educate yourself and make some realistic decisions, instead of just behaving like a cry baby and tracing number of posts and history of the forum participants. If you really can have somethings to say then say whats incorrect in the reasons mentioned in the thread and educate guys here who need to know the difference between state of economy and related job opportunities for LLMs and for god sakes don't just talk like a guy who is on crack, and first thing he does as part of his due diligence is to go back and click on profile of a poster and trace post history and number of posts made by him/her. That may help you and if you think citing these kind of absurdity you making a point then god bless you, and I am happy to know that you've decided to go back after LLM because I don't see any thing for you In US and you'll have hard time finding something to ponder upon. And one more things, please consult some Immigration cosultant before going to embassy for interview because I observed that you mixed up small things like visa category etc so its always advisable to talk to somebody what exactly you need to say if you asked certain tricky questions by the visa officer. And yes, the other poster is absolutely correct that all undergraduate and graduate degrees are pursued under F-1 category for purpose of visa classifications.
Ostriker
Hi people,
These IDIOTS, ostriker, wolla and others whose claim to fame that their sole intention is to gain some US experience and then return back their home, is all BS. Trust me these guys will be first in line praying employers to do their work visa at any cost. Do you think they're investing to gain experience in US and then go back home...naaah. Listen guys, time of SoP writing is over and you don't have to impress schools anymore and this forum is no US embassy visa interview where you've to say whats politically correct, things like - 'I want to retun back home after finishing my LLM', in order to get F-1visa. And if you don't know they remember you have to show your intent to return back home if asked this question at the time of visa interview. One commented here on forum that, LLMs got jobs even during tech-bubble and its not that hard to find a job. I wish you could see the situations yourself but why care for those who wants to put themselves in hole. Congratulations on your acceptances and future aspirations and dreams. The guy with arguments related to tech-bubble, if he tries to read and know some more then he can find it that this is biggest recession after thirties and during tech bubble economy was not affected big way because core sectors of economic process like banks, automotive and home, etc were tightly intact and were working fine and just the tech companies slowed down. Those days, or as matter of fact in last 30 years, JDs were never on deferments and had a problem getting a job in legal history and corporate and legal firms were flourishing, therefore there was never shortage of work even for LLM grads from foreign countries. This lay offs and deferments in legal areas in directly related to american core industries, which is automotive, home, finance, infrastructure. Remember Bill gates may be the richest man on face of the planet but Microsofts, Yahoos, and Google don't define American economy and social structure as much as these banks, home and automotives,...and this time the industry which makes fabric of american society has slowed down and so do connected professional services, including legal practice.


:D You've made my day! "Remember Bill Gates" .... hilarious!

I've been working with a mc firm here in Germany for the last two years and will definitely return to business in June '10. I suppose you had contracts in your first year, right?! Go back to bed and cry about recession lil baby girl.
<blockquote>Hi people,
These IDIOTS, ostriker, wolla and others whose claim to fame that their sole intention is to gain some US experience and then return back their home, is all BS. Trust me these guys will be first in line praying employers to do their work visa at any cost. Do you think they're investing to gain experience in US and then go back home...naaah. Listen guys, time of SoP writing is over and you don't have to impress schools anymore and this forum is no US embassy visa interview where you've to say whats politically correct, things like - 'I want to retun back home after finishing my LLM', in order to get F-1visa. And if you don't know they remember you have to show your intent to return back home if asked this question at the time of visa interview. One commented here on forum that, LLMs got jobs even during tech-bubble and its not that hard to find a job. I wish you could see the situations yourself but why care for those who wants to put themselves in hole. Congratulations on your acceptances and future aspirations and dreams. The guy with arguments related to tech-bubble, if he tries to read and know some more then he can find it that this is biggest recession after thirties and during tech bubble economy was not affected big way because core sectors of economic process like banks, automotive and home, etc were tightly intact and were working fine and just the tech companies slowed down. Those days, or as matter of fact in last 30 years, JDs were never on deferments and had a problem getting a job in legal history and corporate and legal firms were flourishing, therefore there was never shortage of work even for LLM grads from foreign countries. This lay offs and deferments in legal areas in directly related to american core industries, which is automotive, home, finance, infrastructure. Remember Bill gates may be the richest man on face of the planet but Microsofts, Yahoos, and Google don't define American economy and social structure as much as these banks, home and automotives,...and this time the industry which makes fabric of american society has slowed down and so do connected professional services, including legal practice.
</blockquote>

:D You've made my day! "Remember Bill Gates" .... hilarious!

I've been working with a mc firm here in Germany for the last two years and will definitely return to business in June '10. I suppose you had contracts in your first year, right?! Go back to bed and cry about recession lil baby girl.

Hedek
Calm down people. It's not worth it :) I've been enjoying these boards so far because people are for the most part civil and offer well-thought and argued advice.

He does make a point: this financial crisis has hurt the legal job market more than any other before. The internet bubble in comparison barely affected the legal profession (Palo Alto law firms notwithstanding).
When you look at the situation in London for instance, it's rather scary. Most of the work load in the famous "Magic Circle" firms came from banks and financial institutions. All of a sudden, these clients stopped contracting them. Hundreds of in-house counsel lawyers were also laid off.

In the end, doing an LLM or not is a personal choice. Some perceive it as an irrational expense given the current state of the economy. I believe it's all the more necessary now: with even more qualified lawyers looking for a job, you need that edge to make a difference.
Calm down people. It's not worth it :) I've been enjoying these boards so far because people are for the most part civil and offer well-thought and argued advice.

He does make a point: this financial crisis has hurt the legal job market more than any other before. The internet bubble in comparison barely affected the legal profession (Palo Alto law firms notwithstanding).
When you look at the situation in London for instance, it's rather scary. Most of the work load in the famous "Magic Circle" firms came from banks and financial institutions. All of a sudden, these clients stopped contracting them. Hundreds of in-house counsel lawyers were also laid off.

In the end, doing an LLM or not is a personal choice. Some perceive it as an irrational expense given the current state of the economy. I believe it's all the more necessary now: with even more qualified lawyers looking for a job, you need that edge to make a difference.
Ostriker
He does make a point: this financial crisis has hurt the legal job market more than any other before. The internet bubble in comparison barely affected the legal profession (Palo Alto law firms notwithstanding).
When you look at the situation in London for instance, it's rather scary. Most of the work load in the famous "Magic Circle" firms came from banks and financial institutions. All of a sudden, these clients stopped contracting them. Hundreds of in-house counsel lawyers were also laid off.


Well, since I'm with Freshfields I can totally assure you that this is not true for all law firms. Although, the economic evironment is in bad shape, there are new fields developing fast where legal advice is urgently needed. Just take legal service for governments regarding the crisis reaction legislation throughout Europe, or the developing field in finanical regulation, also compliance is getting more and more important having the upcoming regulation in mind. Restructuring and bankcruptcy practice groups are already overloaded.

In the end, doing an LLM or not is a personal choice. Some perceive it as an irrational expense given the current state of the economy. I believe it's all the more necessary now: with even more qualified lawyers looking for a job, you need that edge to make a difference.


That's exactly what I was saying over the last postings. What's the deal with weeping days after days how bad things are anyway? Does it change anything?
<blockquote>He does make a point: this financial crisis has hurt the legal job market more than any other before. The internet bubble in comparison barely affected the legal profession (Palo Alto law firms notwithstanding).
When you look at the situation in London for instance, it's rather scary. Most of the work load in the famous "Magic Circle" firms came from banks and financial institutions. All of a sudden, these clients stopped contracting them. Hundreds of in-house counsel lawyers were also laid off.</blockquote>

Well, since I'm with Freshfields I can totally assure you that this is not true for all law firms. Although, the economic evironment is in bad shape, there are new fields developing fast where legal advice is urgently needed. Just take legal service for governments regarding the crisis reaction legislation throughout Europe, or the developing field in finanical regulation, also compliance is getting more and more important having the upcoming regulation in mind. Restructuring and bankcruptcy practice groups are already overloaded.

<blockquote> In the end, doing an LLM or not is a personal choice. Some perceive it as an irrational expense given the current state of the economy. I believe it's all the more necessary now: with even more qualified lawyers looking for a job, you need that edge to make a difference.</blockquote>

That's exactly what I was saying over the last postings. What's the deal with weeping days after days how bad things are anyway? Does it change anything?
Durham Red
As I said in my original post:

'If you are an American taking the course to supplement or enhance your field of expertise, or a foreigner planning to leave the US after the course, I am sure the LL.M. will be of value. As I am only looking for a way of getting to live in the US, the LL.M. appears to be worthless to me. I am so glad I found out before I handed over any (more) cash.'

We seem to have got bogged down in cynical insults. Lets keep it civil and informative, people.
As I said in my original post:

'If you are an American taking the course to supplement or enhance your field of expertise, or a foreigner planning to leave the US after the course, I am sure the LL.M. will be of value. As I am only looking for a way of getting to live in the US, the LL.M. appears to be worthless to me. I am so glad I found out before I handed over any (more) cash.'

We seem to have got bogged down in cynical insults. Lets keep it civil and informative, people.
Gregor2009
I agree with Durham Red's analysis!

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion though!
I agree with Durham Red's analysis!

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion though!
NYFLC
Ostrik, so that the best you got for your money and mc experience (even thats doubtful considering your arguments and novice attitude), GULC and BU, I can sense your desperation for not to miss the opportunity. I know BU's reputation in NYC and boston, academically as well as prefessionally in good times and forget now. So good luck and sleep well now cause I'm sure after whatever amount and time you'll invest, you won't be able to call it time and money well spent and only thing you'll gain is what you explicity expressed in your post.- US experience..
Ostrik, so that the best you got for your money and mc experience (even thats doubtful considering your arguments and novice attitude), GULC and BU, I can sense your desperation for not to miss the opportunity. I know BU's reputation in NYC and boston, academically as well as prefessionally in good times and forget now. So good luck and sleep well now cause I'm sure after whatever amount and time you'll invest, you won't be able to call it time and money well spent and only thing you'll gain is what you explicity expressed in your post.- US experience..
On a side note, Gregor congrats on achieving the milestone - 500 plus posts in such a short span of time. You did it man. Congratulations.
On a side note, Gregor congrats on achieving the milestone - 500 plus posts in such a short span of time. You did it man. Congratulations.
Ostriker
So good luck and sleep well now cause I'm sure after whatever amount and time you'll invest, you won't be able to call it time and money well spent ...


Well, if you call international arbitration by william park a waste of time and money, I don't think you even have a small idea about legal education in the US. Fortunately, I've been working in San Diego for 6 months, and in NY for another 4 months, so I do think that I know what's best with my time and money. Anyway, no more need to exculpate my decision.
<blockquote>So good luck and sleep well now cause I'm sure after whatever amount and time you'll invest, you won't be able to call it time and money well spent ...</blockquote>

Well, if you call international arbitration by william park a waste of time and money, I don't think you even have a small idea about legal education in the US. Fortunately, I've been working in San Diego for 6 months, and in NY for another 4 months, so I do think that I know what's best with my time and money. Anyway, no more need to exculpate my decision.
NYFLC
Ostrik, see, now you get it, I knew it. Think before calling folks, a cry little baby and other stuff if they express different viewpoints and some opinion related to relevant information which you may not be seeking but others may before making a decision which involves some realistic cost-benefit analysis in this economy. I have seen BU faculty and even class rooms located on some 8th or 9th floors or (may be more, its been couple of years) building located by the charles river/canal during my days in downtown boston and trust me BU was no sour grape by any stretch, cause I had better grapes.. So goodluck, enjoy your stint at boston and I hope you get what you're going to pay for.
Ostrik, see, now you get it, I knew it. Think before calling folks, a cry little baby and other stuff if they express different viewpoints and some opinion related to relevant information which you may not be seeking but others may before making a decision which involves some realistic cost-benefit analysis in this economy. I have seen BU faculty and even class rooms located on some 8th or 9th floors or (may be more, its been couple of years) building located by the charles river/canal during my days in downtown boston and trust me BU was no sour grape by any stretch, cause I had better grapes.. So goodluck, enjoy your stint at boston and I hope you get what you're going to pay for.
Ostriker
Ok, so he's calling me an idiot, whereas I said he's a crying lil baby, and now I'm the jerk? Its getting childish now. Got your point. Sorry if I offended someone by my comments. It was my solely intention to say that there are dozen threads more about the same topic on this board, and that complaining about recession doesn't change it, however, it sounds to me like telling people who are willing to go abroad how stupid we all are. Anyway, I'm off this discussion.
Ok, so he's calling me an idiot, whereas I said he's a crying lil baby, and now I'm the jerk? Its getting childish now. Got your point. Sorry if I offended someone by my comments. It was my solely intention to say that there are dozen threads more about the same topic on this board, and that complaining about recession doesn't change it, however, it sounds to me like telling people who are willing to go abroad how stupid we all are. Anyway, I'm off this discussion.
fajats
What started as the opinion of OP, ended up as a petty quarrel.

I agree, the situation (GLOBALLY) is dire, so the question: should I or should I not take an LLM? will it help me reach my objectives? (like the rock hit) Should I stay or should I go?

Well, it all depends and the answers are all very subjective. For me, $70,000 usd ($13.40 pesos to a dollar) is A LOT of money, and the one year optional work in a US law firm, may not compensate the investment. Back in México , llm's are not regarded (for the short term) as something out this world, they are just an achievement (sometimes regarded as time lost, since you could've been working for those 1-2 years) but, still, I may open new opportunities either in the US or in some International Organization.

Personally, I would love to leave Mexico and live in NY, Chicago or Boston, maybe LA, but I have to be realistic.

Studying a JD, for me, would mean dishing out even more money and maybe compete in an already competitive market, and since I'm not exactly your run of the mill "American", I may be at a disadvantage (at least thats the perception some of us in third world countries have).

So, in the end... I'm still deciding, I'm even considering options like the 2 year MALD in Fletcher (Law and Diplomacy) which is more into international diplomacy than law, but the multidisciplinary scope may open more doors in the international Org. job market

my 2 cents

Ostriker: its very mature of you to apologize for (maybe) offending someone. There may be a dozen threads, but in the end, if OP wants to post a new thread, and there are over 30 replies, then maybe, the subject still has to be discussed even more but all of us... consider that
What started as the opinion of OP, ended up as a petty quarrel.

I agree, the situation (GLOBALLY) is dire, so the question: should I or should I not take an LLM? will it help me reach my objectives? (like the rock hit) Should I stay or should I go?

Well, it all depends and the answers are all very subjective. For me, $70,000 usd ($13.40 pesos to a dollar) is A LOT of money, and the one year optional work in a US law firm, may not compensate the investment. Back in México , llm's are not regarded (for the short term) as something out this world, they are just an achievement (sometimes regarded as time lost, since you could've been working for those 1-2 years) but, still, I may open new opportunities either in the US or in some International Organization.

Personally, I would love to leave Mexico and live in NY, Chicago or Boston, maybe LA, but I have to be realistic.

Studying a JD, for me, would mean dishing out even more money and maybe compete in an already competitive market, and since I'm not exactly your run of the mill "American", I may be at a disadvantage (at least thats the perception some of us in third world countries have).

So, in the end... I'm still deciding, I'm even considering options like the 2 year MALD in Fletcher (Law and Diplomacy) which is more into international diplomacy than law, but the multidisciplinary scope may open more doors in the international Org. job market

my 2 cents

Ostriker: its very mature of you to apologize for (maybe) offending someone. There may be a dozen threads, but in the end, if OP wants to post a new thread, and there are over 30 replies, then maybe, the subject still has to be discussed even more but all of us... consider that
NYFLC
Ostrik, the intent of durhem and others were never seem to be what you explained in your last post. No, durhem and others never tried to suggest that those who're going ahead with plans bunch of stupid fools. See, this is where a smart lawyer makes his money and stand different from the rest of the herd. What durhem tried to suggest in my view was that after his due diligence and conversations with friends and career counselor, he obtained some informations which he somewhat not favourable. He has a vantage point which showed him some stark situations considering his long terms plan in US. Accordingly, his contention was thats excitement time is over now related to school's acceptance offers and now the real decision making process begins that involves some personal and financial committments and analysis of CB analysis. You two have different expectations and that may be reason you may not understand his position, and that absolutely alright. But being a lawyer he sees it differently and wants a handsome return on his inverstment and personal growth, like many others. He tried to suggest everybody based on informations he received that don't get caught up in excitements of getting an offer/acceptance and commit your time and money blindfolded, thinking that things are fine and you'll get a job easily, if ones intention is to continue after LLM, because things are different nowadays. You're no jerk friend but a smart alwyer its just that you two have different sets of personal choice and preferences
Ostrik, the intent of durhem and others were never seem to be what you explained in your last post. No, durhem and others never tried to suggest that those who're going ahead with plans bunch of stupid fools. See, this is where a smart lawyer makes his money and stand different from the rest of the herd. What durhem tried to suggest in my view was that after his due diligence and conversations with friends and career counselor, he obtained some informations which he somewhat not favourable. He has a vantage point which showed him some stark situations considering his long terms plan in US. Accordingly, his contention was thats excitement time is over now related to school's acceptance offers and now the real decision making process begins that involves some personal and financial committments and analysis of CB analysis. You two have different expectations and that may be reason you may not understand his position, and that absolutely alright. But being a lawyer he sees it differently and wants a handsome return on his inverstment and personal growth, like many others. He tried to suggest everybody based on informations he received that don't get caught up in excitements of getting an offer/acceptance and commit your time and money blindfolded, thinking that things are fine and you'll get a job easily, if ones intention is to continue after LLM, because things are different nowadays. You're no jerk friend but a smart alwyer its just that you two have different sets of personal choice and preferences
ooooooo I don't msake any money here. the bunch o money i make is in a bi tax advisory. instead of mireading my post LEARN TO READ and to interpret words.
ooooooo I don't msake any money here. the bunch o money i make is in a bi tax advisory. instead of mireading my post LEARN TO READ and to interpret words.
ooooooo I don't msake any money here. the bunch o money i make is in a bi tax advisory. instead of mireading my post LEARN TO READ and to interpret words.


Stop being an asshole Smartlawyer - since you NEVER posted earlier on this thread, your post invariably suggests that you are using more than one nick to post and forgot to change nicks before you posted (looking at the different posts above, it's not really all that hard to guess which other nick you use on the Board). Given how stupid your comments have been elsewhere on this Board, I find this completely sloppy oversight unsurprising. I also find it hilarious that you find it necessary to insult other people's English language skills in your few posts with a lack of self-awareness (of your complete lack of mastery of the English language) that is painful if it weren't so wonderfully rib-tickling.
<blockquote>ooooooo I don't msake any money here. the bunch o money i make is in a bi tax advisory. instead of mireading my post LEARN TO READ and to interpret words. </blockquote>

Stop being an asshole Smartlawyer - since you NEVER posted earlier on this thread, your post invariably suggests that you are using more than one nick to post and forgot to change nicks before you posted (looking at the different posts above, it's not really all that hard to guess which other nick you use on the Board). Given how stupid your comments have been elsewhere on this Board, I find this completely sloppy oversight unsurprising. I also find it hilarious that you find it necessary to insult other people's English language skills in your few posts with a lack of self-awareness (of your complete lack of mastery of the English language) that is painful if it weren't so wonderfully rib-tickling.

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