What is the added value of the specialized LL.M. in IBRLA, if any? What does it give in terms of training and/or professional growth? If it enough that I should choose it over a general LL.M. from an overall more prestigious (supposedly) school, Columbia?

My interests are in corporate compliance/enforcement, arbitration, litigation. My main goal is to get my foot in the door of international arbitration practice.

1. Reputation and Results:

Columbia:

- Prestige/higher ranking. Columbia closes fewer doors at the outset.
- “For the most part, people who go to Columbia have the sorts of numbers and qualifications that would enable them to get into schools like Harvard but, for whatever reason, they are at Columbia instead.”
- #19 in Dispute Resolution, 2018 USNews

NYU:
- Best represented school worldwide among top arbitration law firms, among their 2009-2011 intake, in the Global Arbitration Review 100 (CLS tied for 2nd); IBRLA fifth among specialized master’s degrees
- IBRLA is, in one source, a top 10 LL.M. in Arbitration (source seems dodgy though)
- Manual searching of big firms produces a not-insignificant number of IBRLA graduates. But their educational backgrounds before IBRLA were already pretty impressive at the outset.
- Otherwise, NYU’s Dispute Resolution doesn’t seem to get rated anywhere. I fear that this is the school referred to that “most of the US practitioners we spoke to said privately that they regard the top European programmes as a class apart from the US ones in terms of the immersion in international arbitration that they provide.” The head of the ICAL program (Stockholm University), also talked, in a podcast I listened to, about a New York program that immerses its students in a lot of theoretical classes, writes a thesis (IBRLA has a mandatory thesis component), and adds nothing to the hire-ability or actual skills of the student while the institution makes oodles of cash. She talked about it as an example of a bad arbitration program, giving no actual practical training, among other flaws.

2. Career Services

Columbia
- Anecdotally, their career services for LL.M.’s is underwhelming.

NYU
- Anecdotally, I have received ringing endorsements about NYU’s career services. The institution also touts it proudly.
- I was very impressed by the Career Services Chat conducted on 13 March 2018.

3. Thesis

Columbia
- None. More time for clinics, etc.

NYU
- Yes, for IBRLA.

4. Columbia
- Schedule of classes not yet available.
- Clinics, Externships, and Experiential Learning (2017-2018) that I am interested in: Externship: Government Anti-Corruption Programs; Externship: Government Anti-Corruption Programs-Fieldwork; Lawyering in the Digital Age Clinic.
- Courses: International Commercial Arbitration; S. Advanced International Commercial Arbitration; S. Construction Industry Law: Transactional Practice, Dispute Avoidance and Resolution; S. International Commercial Arbitration Practicum; S. International Investment Arbitration; Transnational Litigation.
- The reputed professor Bermann is apparently not as involved in teaching anymore, based on the sudden drop in his teaching load in SY 2017-2018.

NYU
- Schedule of classes now available!
- Clinical Programs: Business Law Transactions Clinic; Prosecution Externship; Mediation Clinic - Advanced: Dispute System Design; Regulatory Policy Clinic.
- Courses: Oral Advocacy in International Investment and Commercial Arbitration Seminar; Investment Treaty Arbitration; International Litigation and Arbitration; International Investment Law and Arbitration; International Arbitration and the CISG (a specialty of the IBRLA hear, Ferrari, he even has a book); International Business Transactions; Antitrust Law: Case Development and Litigation Strategy Seminar; Business Crime; Regulation of Banks and Financial Institutions
- #2 in Clinical Training, US News 2018

5. Finally, in favor of Columbia, in case I change my mind on my concentration, I feel I may have more options here.

Others: same financial aid; like both school locations equally; kind of person I am/kind of student in the respective institutions is not important to me

I’m hoping that even the lurkers out there can contribute their thoughts, if any.

With respect to the thesis, I wanted to add that there is a LLM essay option at Columbia that is like the NYU's thesis (see http://www.law.columbia.edu/students/graduate-legal-studies/llm-degree-requirements/supervised-research-and-llm-essay)

As someone facing a very similar quandary I completely get what a tough call this is to make!

As you note, I think the main difference between the programs is that NYU is highly structured versus CLS will give you some more flexibility to diversify and tailor the program to your specific interests.

Two other things to note re CLS (based on my research + experience of attending a summer school there):
1. Apparently the grading curve is not as rigorously applied as at NYU and some other top 20 US schools.
2. Stronger reputation and links with Big Law firms in the US - a lot of the professors are working professionals come from great NYC law firms or organizations.

Finally, it is actually possible for you to go to CLS and take 1 course (6 credits) at NYU and vice versa under the cross-institutional partnership arrangement they have.

And remember that both are excellent options, so in the end if you put in the work I'm sure you'll succeed in your goal of becoming an international corporate arbitration expert no matter which program you choose!

As you note, I think the main difference between the programs is that NYU is highly structured versus CLS will give you some more flexibility to diversify and tailor the program to your specific interests.

Two other things to note re CLS (based on my research + experience of attending a summer school there):
1. Apparently the grading curve is not as rigorously applied as at NYU and some other top 20 US schools.
2. Stronger reputation and links with Big Law firms in the US - a lot of the professors are working professionals come from great NYC law firms or organizations.

Finally, it is actually possible for you to go to CLS and take 1 course (6 credits) at NYU and vice versa under the cross-institutional partnership arrangement they have.

NYU
- Anecdotally, I have received ringing endorsements about NYU’s career services. The institution also touts it proudly.
- I was very impressed by the Career Services Chat conducted on 13 March 2018.

NYU
- Anecdotally, I have received ringing endorsements about NYU’s career services. The institution also touts it proudly.
- I was very impressed by the Career Services Chat conducted on 13 March 2018.

What did they say on the career services chat that got you so interested? I could not attend it, so any detail in this regard would be appreciated... Thanks!

Updates:

A) Excerpts from a current IBRLA student:

- They got the impression that EU and Spanish-speaking lawyers are preferred

- They felt restricted by the IBRLA requirements

- "[A]round 5-6 people changed to the traditional program for many reasons. Some of them felt that the IBRLA course requirement restricted their choices in choosing other courses outside the program. Some of them thought that writing thesis (25 pages paper) wasted too much time, they rather used that time to do something else."

- "I would say that if it's arbitration-related job, IBRLA students might have a better chance than students in other programs, if...
(1) you have some previous experience about arbitration;
(2) professors in arbitration-related classes refer you to the firm or;
(3) you have a good score in the arbitration-related class.
I wouldn't say that if you were the IBRLA students, you would be guaranteed to have a better chance than other students. But I think we have a better opportunity to gain the resources that will help when we apply for the jobs. "

B) No one seems to know how much Prof. Bermann will be teaching at CLS next year, but he is supposedly always involved, and always hiring TA's and RA's.

In re Career Services, try to find out if CLS does a similar job too. I know other universities do the things you described too. Unless CLS' was lacking, then I wouldn't consider it a winning point.

Job fairs - yeah, NYU hosts one of the job fairs in late Jan. The other being hosted by... CLS. CLS' job fair is opened to fewer schools (and the top ones, ie. HYS). However, I wouldn't consider this to matter that much, as job fairs are just an event. Most people who get jobs, do so through connections from their employers back home. [Yes, there is the odd one out that does get a job in the fairs, but...not even students from HYS are guaranteed employment].

In short, I wouldn't use job fair or OCS as a deciding factors.

On a more positive note, hope you end up in the choice that's best for your career path!

In re Career Services, try to find out if CLS does a similar job too. I know other universities do the things you described too. Unless CLS' was lacking, then I wouldn't consider it a winning point.

Job fairs - yeah, NYU hosts one of the job fairs in late Jan. The other being hosted by... CLS. CLS' job fair is opened to fewer schools (and the top ones, ie. HYS). However, I wouldn't consider this to matter that much, as job fairs are just an event. Most people who get jobs, do so through connections from their employers back home. [Yes, there is the odd one out that does get a job in the fairs, but...not even students from HYS are guaranteed employment].

In short, I wouldn't use job fair or OCS as a deciding factors.

On a more positive note, hope you end up in the choice that's best for your career path!

Finally, it is actually possible for you to go to CLS and take 1 course (6 credits) at NYU and vice versa under the cross-institutional partnership arrangement they have.

Finally, it is actually possible for you to go to CLS and take 1 course (6 credits) at NYU and vice versa under the cross-institutional partnership arrangement they have.

Really? This sound very interesting... But is this true also for LL.M. students or just JDs? I could not find any precise information in this regard...

I am dealing with the same dilemma. NYU IBRLA seems to offer more arbitration related courses (though the difference is small). On the other hand, I feel I would be restricted by the IBRLA requirements + I understand it would not allow to take enough courses for the NY bar (there is a 30 credits restriction).

Btw the CLS NYU cross-institutional partnership is available to LL.M.'s. but the courses offered this year for the exchange at least by NYU had almost no relation to arbitration whatsoever.

Still undecided, both schools are great.

I am dealing with the same dilemma. NYU IBRLA seems to offer more arbitration related courses (though the difference is small). On the other hand, I feel I would be restricted by the IBRLA requirements + I understand it would not allow to take enough courses for the NY bar (there is a 30 credits restriction).

Btw the CLS NYU cross-institutional partnership is available to LL.M.'s. but the courses offered this year for the exchange at least by NYU had almost no relation to arbitration whatsoever.

Still undecided, both schools are great.

If you are concerned about the IBRLA requirements but leaning towards NYU - you can request to change specialisations (ie. to the traditional LLM program) at any stage, now or when you start, and such requests are routinely approved. So if being in too narrow a program is your worry, but NYU otherwise ticks all your boxes, don't worry so much as you can always change the LLM program you are doing.

Guys I have been admitted to NYU (International Business Regulation, Litigation and Arbitration program) and MIDS.

Need to take decision between the two. I am an Indian with 6 years of experience - My priority is getting a job in International arbitration. Suggestion please??

Guys I have been admitted to NYU (International Business Regulation, Litigation and Arbitration program) and MIDS.

Need to take decision between the two. I am an Indian with 6 years of experience - My priority is getting a job in International arbitration. Suggestion please??

Just to wrap up this thread: I chose Columbia over NYU's IBRLA, in the end, for the following reasons:

1. The reported difference in their Career Services Office is supposedly not as great as perceived.

2. I decided that I wanted to put all my LL.M. eggs into arbitration, and my final impression of other peoples' impressions is that Columbia is slightly better, contrary to the evidence in the OP. IBRLA may still be the better option for those who want to use arbitration as an adjunct to corporate practice or business regulation, though.

2.a The reputation of George Bermann is far-reaching, and the professors who teach arbitration in CLS were his students.

3. Reports from alumni that Franco Ferrari isn't all that accessible outside class. In fact, the International Business Regulation class does not even meet in the second semester.

3.a. I also browsed through a copy of his book, and it wasn't that good, in my opinion.

4. Ivy League status.

5. No thesis (although there is a paper for all LL.Ms), which I believe would be a waste of time.

6. Almost utter absence of people talking about the IBRLA program on the internet despite it having been up for almost ten years. Even those who took it didn't take a sentence to talk about how good/bad it was, except one Japanese graduate from 2016.

Disagree with my reasons, but I am just being honest here, as a person who spent an inordinate amount of time, even before being admitted, trying to decide between the schools in particular.

Maybe this thread will help future googlers in this same dilemma next year.