Brazil/degree validation


Brazil
Brazilian folks, how about LLM validation in our country?
Someone wrote elsewhere it would count as a specialization?
What would you say?
Maybe this is not a simple question to be answered with a yes or no.
Anyway... Hope hearing from you.
Everton - Brazil
Brazilian folks, how about LLM validation in our country?
Someone wrote elsewhere it would count as a specialization?
What would you say?
Maybe this is not a simple question to be answered with a yes or no.
Anyway... Hope hearing from you.
Everton - Brazil
quote
j.a.
You're right Everton. It's not a yes-or-no type of question.

According to regulation issued by Capes, a body of the Ministry of Education, recognition of degrees issued overseas falls within the authority of universities located in Brazil, each university being free to set the criteria they find fit to grant such recognition. So, after you earn your LL.M. degree in the U.S. or elsewhere, youll have to approach a university in Brazil and apply for a validation. You won't approach the Ministry of Education or any other body.

Now you may be wondering, "So, where does the problem lie?" The problem is Brazilian universities usually demand students undergo a similar course of study to the ones they offer, with a comparable amount and type of classes and a matching writing work. Most LL.M. programs in common law countries, however, do not match the format of their Brazilian master's counterparts. Following a worldwide trend, those are more practice-focused, and not so much academically oriented as in Brazil.

To begin with, in most US law schools, including the most prestigious ones, LL.M. candidates attend the same courses as J.D. students, and not classes specifically designed for them. Besides, theses, wherever required, are much shorter and less profound than Brazilian law schools dissertations, which better compare to J.S.D./Ph.D. dissertations. Actually, the majority of U.S. law schools writing requirements is met by fulfilling 15-page or so paper assignments in conjunction with courses or seminars plus a final thesis about 50-pages long. (For the sake of curiosity, Harvard offers three possibilities of discharging the writing requirement.)

Given the format differences between Brazilian masters and US or other common law LL.M. programs, Brazilian universities tend not to view degrees conferred under the latter as being at the same level as their own. At most, they will generally regard them as mere certificates, that is, as lato sensu postgraduate courses, as we would say in Brazil.

This doesnt preclude a Brazilian university from acknowledging a common law LL.M. degree, though. It just means youll have to pick a program that resembles that of the university where you want it to be recognized and even so you can expect to have a hard time getting it done.

I hope I helped you a bit.
You're right Everton. It's not a yes-or-no type of question.

According to regulation issued by Capes, a body of the Ministry of Education, recognition of degrees issued overseas falls within the authority of universities located in Brazil, each university being free to set the criteria they find fit to grant such recognition. So, after you earn your LL.M. degree in the U.S. or elsewhere, you’ll have to approach a university in Brazil and apply for a validation. You won't approach the Ministry of Education or any other body.

Now you may be wondering, "So, where does the problem lie?" The problem is Brazilian universities usually demand students undergo a similar course of study to the ones they offer, with a comparable amount and type of classes and a matching writing work. Most LL.M. programs in common law countries, however, do not match the format of their Brazilian master's counterparts. Following a worldwide trend, those are more practice-focused, and not so much academically oriented as in Brazil.

To begin with, in most US law schools, including the most prestigious ones, LL.M. candidates attend the same courses as J.D. students, and not classes specifically designed for them. Besides, theses, wherever required, are much shorter and less profound than Brazilian law schools dissertations, which better compare to J.S.D./Ph.D. dissertations. Actually, the majority of U.S. law schools writing requirements is met by fulfilling 15-page or so paper assignments in conjunction with courses or seminars plus a final thesis about 50-pages long. (For the sake of curiosity, Harvard offers three possibilities of discharging the writing requirement.)

Given the format differences between Brazilian master’s and US or other common law LL.M. programs, Brazilian universities tend not to view degrees conferred under the latter as being at the same level as their own. At most, they will generally regard them as mere certificates, that is, as lato sensu postgraduate courses, as we would say in Brazil.

This doesn’t preclude a Brazilian university from acknowledging a common law LL.M. degree, though. It just means you’ll have to pick a program that resembles that of the university where you want it to be recognized and even so you can expect to have a hard time getting it done.

I hope I helped you a bit.
quote
Brazil
Sure helped a lot. In fact, you told in your impeccable English more or less what was just in my mind. I am not sure about it, but maybe we brazilians should do some effort in our dissertation in order to make it longer. Nevertheless, the must important thing to do is enrolling into a top-top ranked law school. I doubt that a brazilian university would ever deny a Harvard LLMM for instance.
Best regards.
Everton
Sure helped a lot. In fact, you told in your impeccable English more or less what was just in my mind. I am not sure about it, but maybe we brazilians should do some effort in our dissertation in order to make it longer. Nevertheless, the must important thing to do is enrolling into a top-top ranked law school. I doubt that a brazilian university would ever deny a Harvard LLMM for instance.
Best regards.
Everton
quote
j.a.
Thanks for the compliment Everton. This board's upside is that it gives us an opportunity both to share information and practice our English. :)

I'm not so sure about your final statement, though. I have a colleague who's been trying for years to get recognition of his Ph.D degree in sociology from Oxford. He first attempted at Unicamp, but they came up with so much red tape that the last time I saw him he was about to go try somewhere else. Hopefully you're right and this is not the case with LLMs.

Cheers!
Thanks for the compliment Everton. This board's upside is that it gives us an opportunity both to share information and practice our English. :)

I'm not so sure about your final statement, though. I have a colleague who's been trying for years to get recognition of his Ph.D degree in sociology from Oxford. He first attempted at Unicamp, but they came up with so much red tape that the last time I saw him he was about to go try somewhere else. Hopefully you're right and this is not the case with LLMs.

Cheers!
quote
Brazil
If a brazilian university ever denies recognition to a Harvard degree i would say as did Einstein about his relativity theory, something like: "if my theory turn out to be wrong, then God is wrong". So, if Harvard's or other top School degree happens to be considered unsatisfying by a brazilian university, then, "poor universities, you are wrong".
If a brazilian university ever denies recognition to a Harvard degree i would say as did Einstein about his relativity theory, something like: "if my theory turn out to be wrong, then God is wrong". So, if Harvard's or other top School degree happens to be considered unsatisfying by a brazilian university, then, "poor universities, you are wrong".
quote
For the past three years I have been developing academic relationships with a number of Brazilian faculties, and provide guidance to a large number of Brazilian students here in SoCal (my fiance is Brasilian and her parents are academics).

As you are probably aware by now in your research, some Brazilian law faculties have established the U.S./U.K. styled degree "LL.M.". This LL.M. degree is not the equivalent of the Brazilian Masters degree which already exists at those faculties - because as has been pointed out above, the LL.M. is viewed as a practical driven degree whereas the Masters is viewed as an academic degree. The Brazilian Masters with its 150 page dissertation (at least I have not seen one shorter of 150 pages in three years) is also normally two years whereas the Brazilian LLM is 18 months.

It may be possible to have the U.S. earned LLM be considered a Brasilian Masters as opposed to a Brazilian LLM but the starting point would most probably be the length and type of dissertation, and thereafter the number of lectured hours.
For the past three years I have been developing academic relationships with a number of Brazilian faculties, and provide guidance to a large number of Brazilian students here in SoCal (my fiance is Brasilian and her parents are academics).

As you are probably aware by now in your research, some Brazilian law faculties have established the U.S./U.K. styled degree "LL.M.". This LL.M. degree is not the equivalent of the Brazilian Masters degree which already exists at those faculties - because as has been pointed out above, the LL.M. is viewed as a practical driven degree whereas the Masters is viewed as an academic degree. The Brazilian Masters with its 150 page dissertation (at least I have not seen one shorter of 150 pages in three years) is also normally two years whereas the Brazilian LLM is 18 months.

It may be possible to have the U.S. earned LLM be considered a Brasilian Masters as opposed to a Brazilian LLM but the starting point would most probably be the length and type of dissertation, and thereafter the number of lectured hours.
quote
Brazil
Very good point, Professor. Since 2009, Brazil has come up with what is called "professional master degree" in parallel to the older "academic master degree". Probably this will help to approximate LLM to the brazilian requirements.
Thank you for your advice.
Very good point, Professor. Since 2009, Brazil has come up with what is called "professional master degree" in parallel to the older "academic master degree". Probably this will help to approximate LLM to the brazilian requirements.
Thank you for your advice.
quote

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