Working in England after LL.M:?


Toni86
Hello fellows!

I am interested if there would be a possibility of working in Great Britain after completing an LL.M. program.

I think working as a lawyer there would be very difficult there because of the educational background from a different country. (Austria in my case) What do you think about that?

Or might there also be a possibility to pursue an academic career at a British university after completing an LL.M. degree as a foreigner?

Thanks for your opinions and experiences!!!
Hello fellows!

I am interested if there would be a possibility of working in Great Britain after completing an LL.M. program.

I think working as a lawyer there would be very difficult there because of the educational background from a different country. (Austria in my case) What do you think about that?

Or might there also be a possibility to pursue an academic career at a British university after completing an LL.M. degree as a foreigner?

Thanks for your opinions and experiences!!!

quote
S_Dimelow
To be honest, although you end up getting paid less than your corporate colleagues, entry into academic law is just as competative. Not only does it depend on your credentials and where the LL.M is from but a PhD has become one of the must have things for new applicants and so your grades from both LLB (or equiv) and LLM would have to be good enough to find you a good programme and funding (if you required it). That said, you may be able to find some lecturing work after your LLM (I know some who recent lecturers who 'only' have LLB and LLM) but they are likely to be short term contracts.
To be honest, although you end up getting paid less than your corporate colleagues, entry into academic law is just as competative. Not only does it depend on your credentials and where the LL.M is from but a PhD has become one of the must have things for new applicants and so your grades from both LLB (or equiv) and LLM would have to be good enough to find you a good programme and funding (if you required it). That said, you may be able to find some lecturing work after your LLM (I know some who recent lecturers who 'only' have LLB and LLM) but they are likely to be short term contracts.
quote
lmwoods
I sometimes wonder if getting a job in academia is not more competitive that getting a training contract (though of course that may change in the current climate). I say that because you are expected to have done more than your average trainee, as well as having high grades to start with. I agree with S Dimelow that - although the UK places not such formal requirement on applications - increasingly junior lecturers have (or are finishing) PhDs. They will quite often have some teaching experience (often institutions offer part time teaching to their PhD students) and the beginnings of a publication list/plan to turn the PhD into a book. Having said that, I do not think that there is any discrimination against applicants who do not have a Uk law background. What is crucial is the quality of the candidate. Of course, if an institution is looking for someone to teach domestic criminal law and you have done an LLM in european commercial, you might find it hard to persuade them you have the substantive knowledge. Not all posts are tied to domestic subject matter though. A useful website for looking for academic jobs is:
www.jobs.ac.uk
Or you could look at the Guardian or THES online.

With regard practice an LLM is not a qualifying law degree and so wouldn't be any help to you in satisfying the requirements to practise in this country.
I sometimes wonder if getting a job in academia is not more competitive that getting a training contract (though of course that may change in the current climate). I say that because you are expected to have done more than your average trainee, as well as having high grades to start with. I agree with S Dimelow that - although the UK places not such formal requirement on applications - increasingly junior lecturers have (or are finishing) PhDs. They will quite often have some teaching experience (often institutions offer part time teaching to their PhD students) and the beginnings of a publication list/plan to turn the PhD into a book. Having said that, I do not think that there is any discrimination against applicants who do not have a Uk law background. What is crucial is the quality of the candidate. Of course, if an institution is looking for someone to teach domestic criminal law and you have done an LLM in european commercial, you might find it hard to persuade them you have the substantive knowledge. Not all posts are tied to domestic subject matter though. A useful website for looking for academic jobs is:
www.jobs.ac.uk
Or you could look at the Guardian or THES online.

With regard practice an LLM is not a qualifying law degree and so wouldn't be any help to you in satisfying the requirements to practise in this country.
quote
Kerfuffle
Just to echo the other responses, the chances of getting an academic position in a UK university without a PhD are virtually non-existant now. The only major exception is found when the candidate has significant work experience and publications, which off-sets the need for a PhD. E.g. you'll find experienced lawyers, partners, QCs etc. working in academia (particularly the UoL) without a PhD.

As for working in the corporate world, you'll have a hard time finding a job in the UK. I was speaking about this to some eminent lawyers last week and was told 'just don't bother' at the moment.

There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!
Just to echo the other responses, the chances of getting an academic position in a UK university without a PhD are virtually non-existant now. The only major exception is found when the candidate has significant work experience and publications, which off-sets the need for a PhD. E.g. you'll find experienced lawyers, partners, QCs etc. working in academia (particularly the UoL) without a PhD.

As for working in the corporate world, you'll have a hard time finding a job in the UK. I was speaking about this to some eminent lawyers last week and was told 'just don't bother' at the moment.

There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!
quote
blaken
Would my LLM help me with a job in the private sector, e.g. large private companies, shipping companies, or organisations like the UN?

I prefer a job that requires traveling. Any ideas?
Would my LLM help me with a job in the private sector, e.g. large private companies, shipping companies, or organisations like the UN?

I prefer a job that requires traveling. Any ideas?
quote
Toni86
I would also be interested in the answer of blakens question.

Is the only possibility after completing your LLM degree in the UK to return to your home country?
As the answers in this thread show it seems to be very difficult to work in the UK, but are there other international options?

Thank you for your answers!
I would also be interested in the answer of blakens question.

Is the only possibility after completing your LLM degree in the UK to return to your home country?
As the answers in this thread show it seems to be very difficult to work in the UK, but are there other international options?

Thank you for your answers!
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Toni86
push
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mariae
If you believe in luck yes..you can easily find a job. I am not considered a First student but I managed quite well so far. Let nothing disappoint you and I wish you best of luck..Negativism is just mere jealousy !!!!!!! You can speak 2 or even 3 languages and in my opinion that is far better than just having a degree and you know just ENGLISH.

Good luck with it xxx
If you believe in luck yes..you can easily find a job. I am not considered a First student but I managed quite well so far. Let nothing disappoint you and I wish you best of luck..Negativism is just mere jealousy !!!!!!! You can speak 2 or even 3 languages and in my opinion that is far better than just having a degree and you know just ENGLISH.

Good luck with it xxx
quote
There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!


What?! If this person is from Austria they have the right to work in the UK. This is basic EU law.

Also, although you get tabloids and what not talking about British job for British workers the City (London) would never tolerate this as they want the best people in the world.

If you can't find work in England, come to Scotland! -we need the people :-)
<blockquote>There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!</blockquote>

What?! If this person is from Austria they have the right to work in the UK. This is basic EU law.

Also, although you get tabloids and what not talking about British job for British workers the City (London) would never tolerate this as they want the best people in the world.

If you can't find work in England, come to Scotland! -we need the people :-)
quote
Kerfuffle
For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year.
For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year.
quote
pedrinus
Agreed Kerfuffle.

If a UK graduate cannot get a job with a 1st class in law, an LLM student is going to have a heck of a difficult time to get one.

FYI, the legal profession in London, as I mentioned before, is incredibly conservative ...if you have an LLM or not...they don't give a f***.

This is not the case in the United States!
Agreed Kerfuffle.

If a UK graduate cannot get a job with a 1st class in law, an LLM student is going to have a heck of a difficult time to get one.

FYI, the legal profession in London, as I mentioned before, is incredibly conservative ...if you have an LLM or not...they don't give a f***.

This is not the case in the United States!
quote
For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year.


Ok, obviously the recession has hit lawyers all across UK.

I was just making a jokey reference to the fact that Scotland has an ageing population so more young professionals are very welcome.
<blockquote>For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year. </blockquote>

Ok, obviously the recession has hit lawyers all across UK.

I was just making a jokey reference to the fact that Scotland has an ageing population so more young professionals are very welcome.
quote
catseye
British Government is making it increasingly difficult to offer jobs to outsiders. Vacancy for all jobs needs to be published in the newspapers so that it can be first filled by a local. If a company/organisation hires an non british candidate they need to explain to the government that they have not found a suitable local candidate and thats why have chosen an outside candidate. Lets face it there are lots of British nationals with the equivalent degree who can apply for the same job.

London's protectionist policy "UK jobs for UK citizens" are being very widely debated everywhere. One of the major problems that UK based companies are facing is that they might lose out on some very good candidate coz of this protectionist policy.

Further, earlier if one resided for 6 years in UK one would be eligible to apply for the British passport but now if you are transferred by a company to UK and have stayed there for 6 years one would not be eligible for the same. One has to leave the existing job and find another job in UK and live there for another 6 yrs to get a British passport. Finding a job in UK is another nightmare thanks to these new regulations coming into force.

So wake up guys...it is difficult for a non-UK law graduate to get a job there. If one is thinking that an LLM degree from UK is a ticket and an easy gateway to job offer in UK....I think such people are highly mistaken.
British Government is making it increasingly difficult to offer jobs to outsiders. Vacancy for all jobs needs to be published in the newspapers so that it can be first filled by a local. If a company/organisation hires an non british candidate they need to explain to the government that they have not found a suitable local candidate and thats why have chosen an outside candidate. Lets face it there are lots of British nationals with the equivalent degree who can apply for the same job.

London's protectionist policy "UK jobs for UK citizens" are being very widely debated everywhere. One of the major problems that UK based companies are facing is that they might lose out on some very good candidate coz of this protectionist policy.

Further, earlier if one resided for 6 years in UK one would be eligible to apply for the British passport but now if you are transferred by a company to UK and have stayed there for 6 years one would not be eligible for the same. One has to leave the existing job and find another job in UK and live there for another 6 yrs to get a British passport. Finding a job in UK is another nightmare thanks to these new regulations coming into force.

So wake up guys...it is difficult for a non-UK law graduate to get a job there. If one is thinking that an LLM degree from UK is a ticket and an easy gateway to job offer in UK....I think such people are highly mistaken.

quote
pedrinus
I agree.!!! It is becoming very very difficult.

LL.M are NOT a passport to get a job in the UK.!!
I agree.!!! It is becoming very very difficult.

LL.M are NOT a passport to get a job in the UK.!!

quote
Toni86
We have now discussed the difficulties in finding a job in the UK after completing an LLM in England.

What I would also like to discuss are the INTERNATIONAL CAREER OPTIONS after an LLM in England. As far as I know a British LLM is beside the LLM programs in the USA the most appreciated program by employers all over the world.

What about possibilities like working in EU institutions, in Easter Europe or maybe in Asian countries?

Thank your for your statements!
We have now discussed the difficulties in finding a job in the UK after completing an LLM in England.

What I would also like to discuss are the INTERNATIONAL CAREER OPTIONS after an LLM in England. As far as I know a British LLM is beside the LLM programs in the USA the most appreciated program by employers all over the world.

What about possibilities like working in EU institutions, in Easter Europe or maybe in Asian countries?

Thank your for your statements!
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aisha1
If LLM in UK doesn't guarantee a job in the legal field... then what other possibility of job exist in any field... if some one wish to work there...
If LLM in UK doesn't guarantee a job in the legal field... then what other possibility of job exist in any field... if some one wish to work there...
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pedrinus
Well...study an LLB (3 years) and then the LPC or the conversion course for 1 year then the LPC, plus 2 years of training contract.
Well...study an LLB (3 years) and then the LPC or the conversion course for 1 year then the LPC, plus 2 years of training contract.
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Toni86
I completed my studies at the University of Vienna. Is that useless? :-(
I completed my studies at the University of Vienna. Is that useless? :-(
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aisha1
I need help!

First how do you post a new thread? I've been looking all over the page but can't figure out.

Second, I have chosen two Universities for LLM for the next fall;

1) Queen Mary University
2) University of Hull

I want to apply to one more University. Any suggestions?

Last, Is LLM in International Law a good area of study. Personally, I am very interested in it.

Hope to get replies :-)
I need help!

First how do you post a new thread? I've been looking all over the page but can't figure out.

Second, I have chosen two Universities for LLM for the next fall;

1) Queen Mary University
2) University of Hull

I want to apply to one more University. Any suggestions?

Last, Is LLM in International Law a good area of study. Personally, I am very interested in it.

Hope to get replies :-)
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Toni86
You are in the wrong thread. :-)

But try to apply for University of Leicester.
You are in the wrong thread. :-)

But try to apply for University of Leicester.
quote

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