Trinity College Dublin admission


marco

and anyone know how many students are enrolled each year at Trinity LLM?

and anyone know how many students are enrolled each year at Trinity LLM?
quote
Irkalein

Dear Jennifer,
was this offer supposed to be signed??
Grettings

Dear Jennifer,
was this offer supposed to be signed??
Grettings
quote

it is a computer generated signature but it is okay, once you have your student number you are fine.

i am definalty going to trinity as it has the best reputation of all the colleges in ireland for law - and they accepted me albeit - i did not apply for any other law masters.

for those of you who are going on about foreign masters programs please spare a thought for those of us who are on scholarship assistance - grant assistance from the irish government - we cant study outside of the country as they will not pay for overseas study so please stop making us green with envy

it is a computer generated signature but it is okay, once you have your student number you are fine.

i am definalty going to trinity as it has the best reputation of all the colleges in ireland for law - and they accepted me albeit - i did not apply for any other law masters.

for those of you who are going on about foreign masters programs please spare a thought for those of us who are on scholarship assistance - grant assistance from the irish government - we cant study outside of the country as they will not pay for overseas study so please stop making us green with envy
quote
sbwb

i am definalty (sic) going to trinity as it has the best reputation of all the colleges in ireland for law.


Sorry to interrupt this interesting discussion but that's completely untrue. No-one doubts that on account of its grandeur & age, Trinity's is the name most widely recognised on a general level internationally. However, with specific reference to law, UCD is unquestionably the superior institution. Though the TCD graduate/undergraduate selection processes are often more exclusive owing to their more limited quantity of available places, a quick glance at Irish legal culture will tell the real story. Every Chief Justice & Attorney General without exception since the foundation of the state has been a graduate of UCD. If one considers judicial representation as the barometer, there are but a few TCD graduates currently sitting on the superior courts.

In addition, on an academic front, several of TCD's top class lecturers (William Binchy, Gerard Hogan & Gerry Whyte if i'm not mistaken, there may be others) are UCD alumni. This is a position which is not reciprocated to any great extent.

No-one questions that the TCD LLM is an excellent course with some very interesting subject choices but to give the impression that it is the only masters worth talking about in Ireland would be to mislead. Indeed, the masters in Human Rights Law at UCG (University College Galway), taught by inter alia the renowned Prof. Wiliam A. Schabas, is believed to be among the top in its class in the entire world.

Apologies again for having to interrupt, but the potential for misinformation on this website is too great to allow such bold assertions go unchallenged, especially when many of the people reading are making decision which are crucial to their careers..

Regards

<blockquote>i am definalty (sic) going to trinity as it has the best reputation of all the colleges in ireland for law.</blockquote>

Sorry to interrupt this interesting discussion but that's completely untrue. No-one doubts that on account of its grandeur & age, Trinity's is the name most widely recognised on a general level internationally. However, with specific reference to law, UCD is unquestionably the superior institution. Though the TCD graduate/undergraduate selection processes are often more exclusive owing to their more limited quantity of available places, a quick glance at Irish legal culture will tell the real story. Every Chief Justice & Attorney General without exception since the foundation of the state has been a graduate of UCD. If one considers judicial representation as the barometer, there are but a few TCD graduates currently sitting on the superior courts.

In addition, on an academic front, several of TCD's top class lecturers (William Binchy, Gerard Hogan & Gerry Whyte if i'm not mistaken, there may be others) are UCD alumni. This is a position which is not reciprocated to any great extent.

No-one questions that the TCD LLM is an excellent course with some very interesting subject choices but to give the impression that it is the only masters worth talking about in Ireland would be to mislead. Indeed, the masters in Human Rights Law at UCG (University College Galway), taught by inter alia the renowned Prof. Wiliam A. Schabas, is believed to be among the top in its class in the entire world.

Apologies again for having to interrupt, but the potential for misinformation on this website is too great to allow such bold assertions go unchallenged, especially when many of the people reading are making decision which are crucial to their careers..

Regards
quote
yonde

This is one of the reason why I decided to go to UCD. I never entertained the idea of attending Trinity as it is well known in Ireland that UCD has a superior law school.

This is one of the reason why I decided to go to UCD. I never entertained the idea of attending Trinity as it is well known in Ireland that UCD has a superior law school.
quote

right then sbwb,

hope you decided to go to UCD if you like it that much, but if UCD was really that great then why did they disband their general masters in law which if i am not mistaken was disbanded about 3 years ago?

also if people are using this site to make career changing decisions then why did so many people using this site firstly ask their lecturers who recommended trinity??
UCD did not even enter the frame.

i asked my lecuturers and they said that trinity was the best, like so many others on this web site?

and by the way about the (sic). this is not a journal of law and people are entitled to write about what they want and put forward the view points that they feel are appropriate.
all people can do with this website is take on the views that they feel are important and weight them up accordingly.
anyone who would make a decision solely based on the information that is on this website would be rather misguided if to say the least.
and it is also not my fault that i am dyslexic!

and also, do you not consider Ivana Balick a top class lecturer?? one of the leading contributors to irish legal debate in the past 5 years is not worthy of mention and she was a trinity graduate??

i think that you may have been rather blinkered in you post to this disscussion board!

right then sbwb,

hope you decided to go to UCD if you like it that much, but if UCD was really that great then why did they disband their general masters in law which if i am not mistaken was disbanded about 3 years ago?

also if people are using this site to make career changing decisions then why did so many people using this site firstly ask their lecturers who recommended trinity??
UCD did not even enter the frame.

i asked my lecuturers and they said that trinity was the best, like so many others on this web site?

and by the way about the (sic). this is not a journal of law and people are entitled to write about what they want and put forward the view points that they feel are appropriate.
all people can do with this website is take on the views that they feel are important and weight them up accordingly.
anyone who would make a decision solely based on the information that is on this website would be rather misguided if to say the least.
and it is also not my fault that i am dyslexic!

and also, do you not consider Ivana Balick a top class lecturer?? one of the leading contributors to irish legal debate in the past 5 years is not worthy of mention and she was a trinity graduate??

i think that you may have been rather blinkered in you post to this disscussion board!

quote
Irkalein

I fully suppory Irishlegaleagle!
If UCD is really so good it should be more known. It's a pity that University is famous in eire and not as world renowned as Trinity.

I fully suppory Irishlegaleagle!
If UCD is really so good it should be more known. It's a pity that University is famous in eire and not as world renowned as Trinity.
quote
Inactive User

Okay, dont want this to descend into a University bashing session, but I would like to add to this. I did my undergraduate and first postgraduate degree in UCD, then taught there for two years as a tutor, now heading to Cambridge. After completing the Commercial LLM in UCD, I decided to give the Trinity LLM a try cause I wanted to see what it was like over on the "other side" so to speak. I left the program at Christmas. The only reason I didnt leave Trinity altogether was that Professor Binchy had agreed to supervise me on a research degree, so I transferred, and have been pursuing a PhD for the past 2 years (while also tutoring in UCD). My reasons for not liking the course were as follows:
1: I did not feel it was a masters level standard, and I felt I was going backwards rather than progressing. In fact it wasnt even as difficult as some of the undergraduate courses I had attended in UCD. It was spoonfed and no independent research was required. The exams were 2 hours long, and students were required to only answer one OR two questions on the papers. Every topic covered in lectures was on the exam, all materials supplied. I just didnt see the point. On the Commercial LLM in UCD, lectures were a starting point, but to even pass the exam students had to do a lot of independent research. The lecture was supposed to introduce you briefly to the topic, rather than being to totality of information you were required to show.

2: One of the subjects I did was Competition Law. The exam, like the lectures, was a joke. There were 3 questions, do 2. First question was ten short questions, what is a monopoly, what is an oligopoly, etc etc. Write out Article 81, Write out Article 82. Other two questions were very short essays or problems about market abuse and Dominant position. This was a Masters level examination? I think not.

3: The LLM was and still is marked Pass/Fail. Whereas in UCD, you can get a Distinction, as a sign that you have actually worked hard and came near top of class.

Now, these are very personal experiences about the LLM program. I know a few people (also UCD graduates) who were not at all happy with it. However, I know an equal number of people who loved the LLM in Trinity.

As to the differneces in reputation and status I think the following could be a fairly good analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of both Universities. Trinity would be considered the leading University in the fields of Constitutional Law and Tort. They have the leading experts, who are very brilliant people and excellent lecturers. UCD's strengths are in all types of Commercial Law (Corporate Finance (Dermot Cahill)/Takeovers/Company Law/Arbitration (Brian Hutchinson)/Credit and Security/Competition Law(Mary Catherine Lucey)), Intellectual Property (Professor Robert Clark), Contract (Robert Clark, Blanaid Clark), Legal History (Professor Osborough), Criminology (Professor MacAuley and new guy from Oxford who was appointed head of the institute, cant remember his name) and European Law (recent appointment of Professor Maher from London School of Economics).
I think Trinity would be considered more academically focussed, whereas UCD would be far more practical, hence the getting rid of the general LLM in favour of subject specific LLM's. I know that some of the BIG 5 firms in Ireland make money available to Trainees who want to pursue the LLM in Commercial Law in UCD or the Diploma in Arbitration.

I know that with the introduction of Horizons, the masters has become more like the Trinity LLM this year. People have choice of loads of modules, and exams at Christmas and Summer, rather than August as in previous years. Dont have a lot fo information about it.

As far as international reputation goes, it is hard to compete with a University that has been around for 500 years. However, I know in law anyway, UCD is doing much better in recent years in England both professionally and academically admissions wise. Also very high number of admissions to US law schools this year.

If you want international reputation and prestige, then Trinity LLM is for you. If you wanna work in Ireland or UK after, would suggest not dismissing UCD so offhandedly.

Also, can we please keep the University bashing to a minimum unless you are speaking from personal experience. I have tried to provide as much information as possible.

O and about Ivana Bacik, she hasnt published anything in a long time, she is not a full Professor, (Reid Professorship only same as that as senior lecturer, Professor in name only, status and pay that of senior lecturer) no PhD, and she is more of a politician now than anything else. As far as having made significant contributions to legal academia in the past five years I think thats a very very big stretch. Sorry for this personal rant, but I have a thing about people raving about how supposedly brilliant she is. Sorry. Its like putting a red flag before a bull.

Okay, dont want this to descend into a University bashing session, but I would like to add to this. I did my undergraduate and first postgraduate degree in UCD, then taught there for two years as a tutor, now heading to Cambridge. After completing the Commercial LLM in UCD, I decided to give the Trinity LLM a try cause I wanted to see what it was like over on the "other side" so to speak. I left the program at Christmas. The only reason I didnt leave Trinity altogether was that Professor Binchy had agreed to supervise me on a research degree, so I transferred, and have been pursuing a PhD for the past 2 years (while also tutoring in UCD). My reasons for not liking the course were as follows:
1: I did not feel it was a masters level standard, and I felt I was going backwards rather than progressing. In fact it wasnt even as difficult as some of the undergraduate courses I had attended in UCD. It was spoonfed and no independent research was required. The exams were 2 hours long, and students were required to only answer one OR two questions on the papers. Every topic covered in lectures was on the exam, all materials supplied. I just didnt see the point. On the Commercial LLM in UCD, lectures were a starting point, but to even pass the exam students had to do a lot of independent research. The lecture was supposed to introduce you briefly to the topic, rather than being to totality of information you were required to show.

2: One of the subjects I did was Competition Law. The exam, like the lectures, was a joke. There were 3 questions, do 2. First question was ten short questions, what is a monopoly, what is an oligopoly, etc etc. Write out Article 81, Write out Article 82. Other two questions were very short essays or problems about market abuse and Dominant position. This was a Masters level examination? I think not.

3: The LLM was and still is marked Pass/Fail. Whereas in UCD, you can get a Distinction, as a sign that you have actually worked hard and came near top of class.

Now, these are very personal experiences about the LLM program. I know a few people (also UCD graduates) who were not at all happy with it. However, I know an equal number of people who loved the LLM in Trinity.

As to the differneces in reputation and status I think the following could be a fairly good analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of both Universities. Trinity would be considered the leading University in the fields of Constitutional Law and Tort. They have the leading experts, who are very brilliant people and excellent lecturers. UCD's strengths are in all types of Commercial Law (Corporate Finance (Dermot Cahill)/Takeovers/Company Law/Arbitration (Brian Hutchinson)/Credit and Security/Competition Law(Mary Catherine Lucey)), Intellectual Property (Professor Robert Clark), Contract (Robert Clark, Blanaid Clark), Legal History (Professor Osborough), Criminology (Professor MacAuley and new guy from Oxford who was appointed head of the institute, cant remember his name) and European Law (recent appointment of Professor Maher from London School of Economics).
I think Trinity would be considered more academically focussed, whereas UCD would be far more practical, hence the getting rid of the general LLM in favour of subject specific LLM's. I know that some of the BIG 5 firms in Ireland make money available to Trainees who want to pursue the LLM in Commercial Law in UCD or the Diploma in Arbitration.

I know that with the introduction of Horizons, the masters has become more like the Trinity LLM this year. People have choice of loads of modules, and exams at Christmas and Summer, rather than August as in previous years. Dont have a lot fo information about it.

As far as international reputation goes, it is hard to compete with a University that has been around for 500 years. However, I know in law anyway, UCD is doing much better in recent years in England both professionally and academically admissions wise. Also very high number of admissions to US law schools this year.

If you want international reputation and prestige, then Trinity LLM is for you. If you wanna work in Ireland or UK after, would suggest not dismissing UCD so offhandedly.

Also, can we please keep the University bashing to a minimum unless you are speaking from personal experience. I have tried to provide as much information as possible.

O and about Ivana Bacik, she hasnt published anything in a long time, she is not a full Professor, (Reid Professorship only same as that as senior lecturer, Professor in name only, status and pay that of senior lecturer) no PhD, and she is more of a politician now than anything else. As far as having made significant contributions to legal academia in the past five years I think thats a very very big stretch. Sorry for this personal rant, but I have a thing about people raving about how supposedly brilliant she is. Sorry. Its like putting a red flag before a bull.
quote
sbwb

Nicely put Irishguy, I'm Cantab bound in October as well so perhaps we can continue the Bacik-bashing there. I don't think embarrassing oneself on the Late-Late Show once a year while trying to further the pro-choice agenda bears the hallmark of an outstanding contributor to the Irish legal debate. However, if people are determined to hail her as the second coming I should point out that I merely contended that "several of TCD's top class lecturers... are UCD alumni" and made no suggestion that such was the case across the board.

Irishlegaleagle appears to have taken my post rather personally & I apologise for the offence caused, though I remain at a loss to see where such originated. The point of my post was not to proclaim that UCD is the only worthwhile legal institution in Ireland, but rather that there is more than one, contrary to what many people believe.

As to your summary dismissal of my remarks I would like to come back on a few points. I feel Irishguy has dealt sufficiently with the point on general LLMs v. the specific ones now being employed in UCD.

A quick examination of the threads on this site will show you that people do in fact seek advice on some serious career moves; choices between LLMs in different countries; LLMs v. professional examinations etc. This effect is amplified when people are discussing the institutions in Ireland since none of them engage in any major international advertising/information initiatives and their associated websites are often sub-standard (UCD's certainly is). As to the opinions of foreign lecturers, such is merely a further reflection of this fact & a serendipitous offshoot for Trinity of the fact that it is 400 years older & has almost equal significance as one of Dublin's most famous historical landmarks. Reputations are often misleading; for example many people would think that the University of Michigan would pale in comparison to the history-steeped, Ivy league constituent Cornell, yet the former trumps the latter by some 5 places in the latest US News rankings.

I must confess that I'm not exactly about to ignore the hard facts included in my first post just because 'your lecturers' say TCD is superior. The trenchancy of your response would suggest that you are a TCD student/alumnus so it hardly comes as a surprise that your interviewees on this point (TCD staff) are rooting for themselves.

In all, it is to malign my intentions to suggest that I am attempting to reduce this debate to a base-level, Pantomime -style shouting match. Trinity is indeed one of the finest Universities in the common law world but it is erroneous and nothing short of a grave insult to the 24,000 people studying at UCD to declare without any evidence that their preferred institution should be shunned as inferior.

Nicely put Irishguy, I'm Cantab bound in October as well so perhaps we can continue the Bacik-bashing there. I don't think embarrassing oneself on the Late-Late Show once a year while trying to further the pro-choice agenda bears the hallmark of an outstanding contributor to the Irish legal debate. However, if people are determined to hail her as the second coming I should point out that I merely contended that "several of TCD's top class lecturers... are UCD alumni" and made no suggestion that such was the case across the board.

Irishlegaleagle appears to have taken my post rather personally & I apologise for the offence caused, though I remain at a loss to see where such originated. The point of my post was not to proclaim that UCD is the only worthwhile legal institution in Ireland, but rather that there is more than one, contrary to what many people believe.

As to your summary dismissal of my remarks I would like to come back on a few points. I feel Irishguy has dealt sufficiently with the point on general LLMs v. the specific ones now being employed in UCD.

A quick examination of the threads on this site will show you that people do in fact seek advice on some serious career moves; choices between LLMs in different countries; LLMs v. professional examinations etc. This effect is amplified when people are discussing the institutions in Ireland since none of them engage in any major international advertising/information initiatives and their associated websites are often sub-standard (UCD's certainly is). As to the opinions of foreign lecturers, such is merely a further reflection of this fact & a serendipitous offshoot for Trinity of the fact that it is 400 years older & has almost equal significance as one of Dublin's most famous historical landmarks. Reputations are often misleading; for example many people would think that the University of Michigan would pale in comparison to the history-steeped, Ivy league constituent Cornell, yet the former trumps the latter by some 5 places in the latest US News rankings.

I must confess that I'm not exactly about to ignore the hard facts included in my first post just because 'your lecturers' say TCD is superior. The trenchancy of your response would suggest that you are a TCD student/alumnus so it hardly comes as a surprise that your interviewees on this point (TCD staff) are rooting for themselves.

In all, it is to malign my intentions to suggest that I am attempting to reduce this debate to a base-level, Pantomime -style shouting match. Trinity is indeed one of the finest Universities in the common law world but it is erroneous and nothing short of a grave insult to the 24,000 people studying at UCD to declare without any evidence that their preferred institution should be shunned as inferior.
quote

The trenchancy of your response would suggest that you are a TCD student/alumnus so it hardly comes as a surprise that your interviewees on this point (TCD staff) are rooting for themselves.

Trinity is indeed one of the finest Universities in the common law world...

yes i know that i have editied at will here but re point no 1
every law student is always told not to assume things because of the ass - u - me thing. you have already broken that rule by assuming that i am a student of trinity. well here is the story... i went to the waterford institute of technology and this will be my first time in trinity and have never had any contact with any trinity lectures

no 2 you do admit that trinty is indeed one of the finest unis...thats fair, but if you read the oringinal post that i put up and that you replied to you will realise that the only person who entered into a "base-level, Pantomime -style shouting match" is yourself by bringing up this whole farce!

so people... can we please go back to the terms of reference of this disscussion board and discuss the whole admission procedure to this course.

this is getting worse than an irish tribunal!!!

The trenchancy of your response would suggest that you are a TCD student/alumnus so it hardly comes as a surprise that your interviewees on this point (TCD staff) are rooting for themselves.

Trinity is indeed one of the finest Universities in the common law world...

yes i know that i have editied at will here but re point no 1
every law student is always told not to assume things because of the ass - u - me thing. you have already broken that rule by assuming that i am a student of trinity. well here is the story... i went to the waterford institute of technology and this will be my first time in trinity and have never had any contact with any trinity lectures

no 2 you do admit that trinty is indeed one of the finest unis...thats fair, but if you read the oringinal post that i put up and that you replied to you will realise that the only person who entered into a "base-level, Pantomime -style shouting match" is yourself by bringing up this whole farce!

so people... can we please go back to the terms of reference of this disscussion board and discuss the whole admission procedure to this course.

this is getting worse than an irish tribunal!!!

quote
sbwb

Ok, this is my last post on this aspect of the thread, I promise. As to my 'assumption': 1. I used the phrase 'would suggest' meaning that I had presumed nothing for definite, but rather was merely engaging in logical speculation. 2. I was correct, you are an incumbent student of the University, thus your opinion is naturally coloured (before you say so, I'm well aware that I'm in the exact same predicament re:UCD & have no qualms in admitting such. I would, however, like to think that my adduction of hard facts to prove my case would remedy this flaw). I am disappointed to hear that the WIT lecturers are so narrow-minded in their outlook on Irish legal education.

Regarding the Pantomime thing: I simply refuted any suggestion to the effect that I was lowering the tone & made no reference to what you may or may not have been doing. By all means, resume your discussion on the merits & aspects of the TCD system, but don't be so ignorant as to predicate your posts on false assertions as to an 'untouchable' superior status at the top of the phantom Irish law school table, something which TCD has never enjoyed since the foundation of the State.

To those of you thinking of coming to Ireland from foreign countries, reading this debacle agog with horror, don't worry. Not everyone here is as argumentative & pedantic as I tend to be. I hope you thoroughly enjoy your time here, irrespective of where you choose to study.

Ok, this is my last post on this aspect of the thread, I promise. As to my 'assumption': 1. I used the phrase 'would suggest' meaning that I had presumed nothing for definite, but rather was merely engaging in logical speculation. 2. I was correct, you are an incumbent student of the University, thus your opinion is naturally coloured (before you say so, I'm well aware that I'm in the exact same predicament re:UCD & have no qualms in admitting such. I would, however, like to think that my adduction of hard facts to prove my case would remedy this flaw). I am disappointed to hear that the WIT lecturers are so narrow-minded in their outlook on Irish legal education.

Regarding the Pantomime thing: I simply refuted any suggestion to the effect that I was lowering the tone & made no reference to what you may or may not have been doing. By all means, resume your discussion on the merits & aspects of the TCD system, but don't be so ignorant as to predicate your posts on false assertions as to an 'untouchable' superior status at the top of the phantom Irish law school table, something which TCD has never enjoyed since the foundation of the State.

To those of you thinking of coming to Ireland from foreign countries, reading this debacle agog with horror, don't worry. Not everyone here is as argumentative & pedantic as I tend to be. I hope you thoroughly enjoy your time here, irrespective of where you choose to study.
quote
Diptyque

Hello,

I'm french (22 years old). I have been admitted to Trinity College too. What about accommodations? Do you take Trinity ones ?

Hello,

I'm french (22 years old). I have been admitted to Trinity College too. What about accommodations? Do you take Trinity ones ?
quote

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