LLM or Re-take the LLB?


afterglow
Hi,

I'm an international student holding an LLB from University of London External System. My result is a third class Hons which doesn't qualify me to apply for BPTC. I intended to obtain a bar-at-law and practice in my home country. Now could you please give me a sincere advise as to what my next move should be. Should I take an LLM course or should I re-take my LLB to improve my result? I've also considered doing a PhD after taking an LLM. But is there any chance that I would be able to obtain a phd scholarship with such a bad undergraduate result?

Please help me in this regard. I'm badly in need of a sincere advice.
Hi,

I'm an international student holding an LLB from University of London External System. My result is a third class Hons which doesn't qualify me to apply for BPTC. I intended to obtain a bar-at-law and practice in my home country. Now could you please give me a sincere advise as to what my next move should be. Should I take an LLM course or should I re-take my LLB to improve my result? I've also considered doing a PhD after taking an LLM. But is there any chance that I would be able to obtain a phd scholarship with such a bad undergraduate result?

Please help me in this regard. I'm badly in need of a sincere advice.
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Good Gosh
were i in your shoes, i would retake the llb to expunge the 3d from my record. it is simply not possible to get admittance to a decent phd programme, llm programme, or the BPTC with a 3d..
were i in your shoes, i would retake the llb to expunge the 3d from my record. it is simply not possible to get admittance to a decent phd programme, llm programme, or the BPTC with a 3d..
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Pete09
you are not alone in this situation, especially in UK universities as they are quite fund of landing poor international students with a 3rd after ripping you off. I would nt bother spending any more time and money on any useless retake. Just crack on with your LLM, earn an impressive result as that will pave any lost ways for you. You can very comfortably gain admission for an LLM, LPC etc with a 3rd class. The only dudgy people are the BVC providers who would only require you to complee an LLM before poceeding enrolling into the BVC......Those lecturers are annoying.
you are not alone in this situation, especially in UK universities as they are quite fund of landing poor international students with a 3rd after ripping you off. I would nt bother spending any more time and money on any useless retake. Just crack on with your LLM, earn an impressive result as that will pave any lost ways for you. You can very comfortably gain admission for an LLM, LPC etc with a 3rd class. The only dudgy people are the BVC providers who would only require you to complee an LLM before poceeding enrolling into the BVC......Those lecturers are annoying.
quote
My advise would be to get on with the LLM. Doing the LLB again would be time consuming and would cost a lot of money. Do the LLM and work hard. I Hope all the best for you!
My advise would be to get on with the LLM. Doing the LLB again would be time consuming and would cost a lot of money. Do the LLM and work hard. I Hope all the best for you!
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afterglow
Many many thanks to all of you for your replies. I'm now considering doing the 2 years' senior status LLB program. I don't know whether it's the right option for me or not. But I'm tired of thinking. Pray for me guys.
Many many thanks to all of you for your replies. I'm now considering doing the 2 years' senior status LLB program. I don't know whether it's the right option for me or not. But I'm tired of thinking. Pray for me guys.
quote
Sunnylady
Hey Afterglow,

I guess I hold a dissenting view on this but I really and strongly advice that you re-take the LLB again simply for the reason that your undergraduate degree is probably the most important academic credential in one's working life with the exception of the PHD. A good LLM grade (distinction or merit) isn't a substitute for low LLB grades (except it's an LLM from Oxbridge)

It may take longer to do the LLM but it's going to be so crucial in your working life, so I think it's definitely worth it! I really can't stress the importance of having good LLB grades. Even if you can't secure an offer to undertake the LLB program in a reputable university, still go on to attend and aim2get stellar grades eg a 1st class which will definitely count for something even if it's a mediocre institution.

In a nutshell, id definitely recommend that you re-take the LLB and not rely on an LLM from an average university (because you won't get an LLM offer from a top university with a 3rd class).

It's better to have great LLB grades from an average university with the possibility of gaining admission into a top university for the LLM program.

Goodluck and keep praying. It sure does work :)
Hey Afterglow,

I guess I hold a dissenting view on this but I really and strongly advice that you re-take the LLB again simply for the reason that your undergraduate degree is probably the most important academic credential in one's working life with the exception of the PHD. A good LLM grade (distinction or merit) isn't a substitute for low LLB grades (except it's an LLM from Oxbridge)

It may take longer to do the LLM but it's going to be so crucial in your working life, so I think it's definitely worth it! I really can't stress the importance of having good LLB grades. Even if you can't secure an offer to undertake the LLB program in a reputable university, still go on to attend and aim2get stellar grades eg a 1st class which will definitely count for something even if it's a mediocre institution.

In a nutshell, id definitely recommend that you re-take the LLB and not rely on an LLM from an average university (because you won't get an LLM offer from a top university with a 3rd class).

It's better to have great LLB grades from an average university with the possibility of gaining admission into a top university for the LLM program.

Goodluck and keep praying. It sure does work :)
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afterglow
Hi SunnyLady,

Thank u for such an illuminating reply. I really needed such an authoritative direction from someone. Now I'm pretty much determined that I'm gonna do exactly that. But I need to be sure of one more thing. As a graduate I have access to the 2 years LLB degree program. I think that would amount to re-taking the LLB. Am I wrong? I have received an advice from the Bar Standards Board that taking this course and achieving a good grade will successfully override my previous underachievement. I hope this is the case. Please enlighten me if you can.
Hi SunnyLady,

Thank u for such an illuminating reply. I really needed such an authoritative direction from someone. Now I'm pretty much determined that I'm gonna do exactly that. But I need to be sure of one more thing. As a graduate I have access to the 2 years LLB degree program. I think that would amount to re-taking the LLB. Am I wrong? I have received an advice from the Bar Standards Board that taking this course and achieving a good grade will successfully override my previous underachievement. I hope this is the case. Please enlighten me if you can.
quote
Good Gosh
yep that's right. the bar council are the authority. retaking the llb as a senior status student is the way to go ..
yep that's right. the bar council are the authority. retaking the llb as a senior status student is the way to go ..
quote
TANKH1
You better double check with thier Senior status entry requirement, I am pretty sure they only take those without a law degree or those who has civil law educational background
You better double check with thier Senior status entry requirement, I am pretty sure they only take those without a law degree or those who has civil law educational background
quote
I am afraid Tankh1 is correct. Most institutions would see their two year LLB as an entry point for non-law students-effectively barring someone who had already obtained a law degree. Furthermore, most institutions would require at least a 2:2 and usually a 2:1 to take the two year LLB. I also imagine most institutions would be reluctant to grant entry to a two year LLB course to someone who had gained a third in a three year LLB course.

My own view is that if you have a third you really have to consider your options carefully. Frankly, it will be really very difficult to qualify and succeed as a lawyer with a third, even with a good LLM.

My recommendation is rather than spending any more money on degrees I would first recommend trying to get some legal work and see how far you enjoy that experience. Even volunteering in a law centre for a year would give you some experience to draw on, build some professional contacts and help you shape a path into legal practice.

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn
London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199
I am afraid Tankh1 is correct. Most institutions would see their two year LLB as an entry point for non-law students-effectively barring someone who had already obtained a law degree. Furthermore, most institutions would require at least a 2:2 and usually a 2:1 to take the two year LLB. I also imagine most institutions would be reluctant to grant entry to a two year LLB course to someone who had gained a third in a three year LLB course.

My own view is that if you have a third you really have to consider your options carefully. Frankly, it will be really very difficult to qualify and succeed as a lawyer with a third, even with a good LLM.

My recommendation is rather than spending any more money on degrees I would first recommend trying to get some legal work and see how far you enjoy that experience. Even volunteering in a law centre for a year would give you some experience to draw on, build some professional contacts and help you shape a path into legal practice.

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn
London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199…………
quote
afterglow
What can I say... I'm totally lost. Many of my classmates skipped their exam fearing this type of result and I've seen many students in our external system taking 4-5 years to complete the course. But I, without any break, completed the whole course in three years and in spite of there being a possibility of a bad result I proceeded and hoped for the best. And now it has proved to be the greatest mistake of my life.

In case I don't get the senior status course, I'll do the following. I'll be grateful if you pass me your valuable guidance in this regard. I'll do an LLM and look for a decent job. If I find any, I'll go on with it beside doing an LLB from another university via the distance learning program which will qualify me for the BPTC one day. I know I sound stupid. But I can't think of any other option right now. This is the career that I wanted. It also involves my family's aspirations. If I can't make it, it would be very difficult for me to get back my life.
What can I say... I'm totally lost. Many of my classmates skipped their exam fearing this type of result and I've seen many students in our external system taking 4-5 years to complete the course. But I, without any break, completed the whole course in three years and in spite of there being a possibility of a bad result I proceeded and hoped for the best. And now it has proved to be the greatest mistake of my life.

In case I don't get the senior status course, I'll do the following. I'll be grateful if you pass me your valuable guidance in this regard. I'll do an LLM and look for a decent job. If I find any, I'll go on with it beside doing an LLB from another university via the distance learning program which will qualify me for the BPTC one day. I know I sound stupid. But I can't think of any other option right now. This is the career that I wanted. It also involves my family's aspirations. If I can't make it, it would be very difficult for me to get back my life.
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Dear Afterglow,
I understand this is difficult. However, it is likely to be very difficult to get on an LLB senior status or an LLM programme with a third.

Perhaps the best solution is to email me directly
with best regards
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn
London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199
Dear Afterglow,
I understand this is difficult. However, it is likely to be very difficult to get on an LLB senior status or an LLM programme with a third.

Perhaps the best solution is to email me directly
with best regards
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn
London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199……………
quote
Kerfuffle
Afterglow, I don't believe you will have a problem securing a place on a two-year LLB programme in the UK. More and more two-year LLBs seem to be popping up, and - to be cynical - many smaller law departments will be quite happy to have an international fee-paying student. You won't secure a place at a high ranking university, but nonetheless there are some good law schools that may accept you. Eg. Bangor's two yr LLB requires "A bachelor degree or successful completion of the first year at Bangor University or any other institution". http://www.bangor.ac.uk/law/listcourses.php.en?view=course&prospectustype=undergraduate&courseid=418&subjectarea=15
Alternatively, you could look at the new LLB programmes offered by BPP.

I would also advise against pursuing an LLM as a bandaid to a poor LLB performance.
Afterglow, I don't believe you will have a problem securing a place on a two-year LLB programme in the UK. More and more two-year LLBs seem to be popping up, and - to be cynical - many smaller law departments will be quite happy to have an international fee-paying student. You won't secure a place at a high ranking university, but nonetheless there are some good law schools that may accept you. Eg. Bangor's two yr LLB requires "A bachelor degree or successful completion of the first year at Bangor University or any other institution". http://www.bangor.ac.uk/law/listcourses.php.en?view=course&prospectustype=undergraduate&courseid=418&subjectarea=15
Alternatively, you could look at the new LLB programmes offered by BPP.

I would also advise against pursuing an LLM as a bandaid to a poor LLB performance.



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rajneesh
hello afterglow

did u miss ur 2:2 by much?
hello afterglow

did u miss ur 2:2 by much?
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Sunnylady
Hey Afterglow,

I'm 100percent certain you could get into University of Buckingham with a third class degree. Now, Uni of Bucks isn't exactly a great institution but if you graduate with top grades, you could go very far. The LLB at Uni of Bucks is an accelerated program which is usually concluded in two years.

I'll use a friend of mine to illustrate my point. He attendended Uni of Bucks and graduated with a 1st class, winning several prizes. He then secured an LLM offer from The LSE as well as a training contract from a magic circle firm. An inspiring sucess story.

I will reiterate my earlier point, your undergraduate degree is of absolute importance and a third class will almost never be ignored, especially in the legal field.

My personal opinion, re-do the LLB program and work very hard in order to gain formidible grades.

Re-doing the LLB will be a great investment which will help you in the long-run. It will also enhance your chances of gaining admission into a reputable institution for your post-graduate studies in the subsequent future.
Hey Afterglow,

I'm 100percent certain you could get into University of Buckingham with a third class degree. Now, Uni of Bucks isn't exactly a great institution but if you graduate with top grades, you could go very far. The LLB at Uni of Bucks is an accelerated program which is usually concluded in two years.

I'll use a friend of mine to illustrate my point. He attendended Uni of Bucks and graduated with a 1st class, winning several prizes. He then secured an LLM offer from The LSE as well as a training contract from a magic circle firm. An inspiring sucess story.

I will reiterate my earlier point, your undergraduate degree is of absolute importance and a third class will almost never be ignored, especially in the legal field.

My personal opinion, re-do the LLB program and work very hard in order to gain formidible grades.

Re-doing the LLB will be a great investment which will help you in the long-run. It will also enhance your chances of gaining admission into a reputable institution for your post-graduate studies in the subsequent future.

quote
afterglow
Thank u all. Without your valuable advice I would've remained lost forever! I've applied to Bangor University for the 2 yrs LLB program via their local agent and they've already sent me an unconditional offer. I'm really happy now that I've got some place to go. Special thanks to Kerfuffle. Bangor's 2 yrs LLB was in my hunting list but I never understood the difference in their requirement and thus remained unaware of the opportunity. Now I'm going through the procedures for obtaining a visa. Please pray for me so that my decision pays back. Thank u all once again for being there for me in these hard times. It was not only about getting suggestions but also about being able to talk to someone in times of distress. I couldn't thank u enough...
Thank u all. Without your valuable advice I would've remained lost forever! I've applied to Bangor University for the 2 yrs LLB program via their local agent and they've already sent me an unconditional offer. I'm really happy now that I've got some place to go. Special thanks to Kerfuffle. Bangor's 2 yrs LLB was in my hunting list but I never understood the difference in their requirement and thus remained unaware of the opportunity. Now I'm going through the procedures for obtaining a visa. Please pray for me so that my decision pays back. Thank u all once again for being there for me in these hard times. It was not only about getting suggestions but also about being able to talk to someone in times of distress. I couldn't thank u enough...
quote
The Law
@ afterglow i wish u all the best. pls give it ur best shot and aim for a 1st class.
@ Sunnylady I do not agree with you that University of Buckingham is not a great institution.I did my LLM there and am glad I did. People used to laugh at us then that we were not rated! now we are no 20 on the league tables and yet no govt funding! I had the best lecturers. We were challenged on a daily basis. I am doing a PhD in another university and my supervisor still praises University of Bucks for my attitude to research and my style of writing.University of Buckingham brought out the scholar in me and inspired me to aim for the best. It was while I was in bucks that i found out that I loved doing research!Though i didn't make a distinction, I made a merit and i deserved it because I read like I was going to die! I was eager to learn my lecturers encouraged this in me. This was d attitude of most people in my set the competition was fierce. I recommend the University of Buckingham for an LLM!
@ afterglow i wish u all the best. pls give it ur best shot and aim for a 1st class.
@ Sunnylady I do not agree with you that University of Buckingham is not a great institution.I did my LLM there and am glad I did. People used to laugh at us then that we were not rated! now we are no 20 on the league tables and yet no govt funding! I had the best lecturers. We were challenged on a daily basis. I am doing a PhD in another university and my supervisor still praises University of Bucks for my attitude to research and my style of writing.University of Buckingham brought out the scholar in me and inspired me to aim for the best. It was while I was in bucks that i found out that I loved doing research!Though i didn't make a distinction, I made a merit and i deserved it because I read like I was going to die! I was eager to learn my lecturers encouraged this in me. This was d attitude of most people in my set the competition was fierce. I recommend the University of Buckingham for an LLM!
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hi .. Iam sudanese .graduated from university of khartoum school of law with hons third class..I'd like to study LLm In uk ..can you help me if you know a university accept me wit 3rd class hons in LLM ????? please please help me
hi .. Iam sudanese .graduated from university of khartoum school of law with hons third class..I'd like to study LLm In uk ..can you help me if you know a university accept me wit 3rd class hons in LLM ????? please please help me
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