LLM:LSE,KCL,UCL:Job Prospects


sambhar
I am in final year pursuing B.A.LLB(hons) from Jamia Millia Islamia...I have applied to LSE,KCL AND UCL for LLM in Commercial Laws..I jst wanna knw...
Is fetching a training contract in Uk is next to impossible even after spending the hefty amount ..but god forbid..if one is not able to get himself/herself absorb by the Law firm there...then does Brand Name lke kcl ,ucl ,lse will help u in getting a gud job out here in India..
Regards
Aditi

I am in final year pursuing B.A.LLB(hons) from Jamia Millia Islamia...I have applied to LSE,KCL AND UCL for LLM in Commercial Laws..I jst wanna knw...
Is fetching a training contract in Uk is next to impossible even after spending the hefty amount ..but god forbid..if one is not able to get himself/herself absorb by the Law firm there...then does Brand Name lke kcl ,ucl ,lse will help u in getting a gud job out here in India..
Regards
Aditi
quote
parul209
hi aditi
i m in my final year law from Govt. Law College, Mumbai. i've got conditional offers from ucl, kings. even i m faced with the same dillem as urs. but from what i've heard from my seniors in coll, gettin a jobn in the UK is indeed tough. what i really wanna know is the tag value of the degree in India..
hi aditi
i m in my final year law from Govt. Law College, Mumbai. i've got conditional offers from ucl, kings. even i m faced with the same dillem as urs. but from what i've heard from my seniors in coll, gettin a jobn in the UK is indeed tough. what i really wanna know is the tag value of the degree in India..
quote
sambhar
Hi Parul...nice to hear frm ur end...well evn i have conditional offer frm kcl undre my belt...Indeed true taht job prospects in UK is next to impossible as u've training contract systm ovr dere..but ya..evn m perplexed abt d name tag issue...Pls update me wenever u get ny information pertaining to this issue...cya :)
Hi Parul...nice to hear frm ur end...well evn i have conditional offer frm kcl undre my belt...Indeed true taht job prospects in UK is next to impossible as u've training contract systm ovr dere..but ya..evn m perplexed abt d name tag issue...Pls update me wenever u get ny information pertaining to this issue...cya :)
quote
mrindia
Hey guys,

I am at present doing my LLM from LSE. I'm specializing in International Business Law. I have worked for two years before beginning my LLm, so I am certainly not looking out for a training contract. But many of my class mates are and it is indeed very very difficult to get a training contract, but the worst part is that you will have to wait for two years before you can get a training contract. for the training contract that begins in 2010 and 2011, you will have to apply by July 31st 2008. Also after if you are selected for the training contract, you will have to do a LPC before you begin the TC (i.e, if you have no work experience).
An LLm alone will not get you a job over here. There are only two firms at present that recruits LLm students from India and they take only two students from all the colleges in UK and that includes cambridge, LSE, Oxford, UCL etc...
If job is the only concern, then it defeats the whole purpose of doing an LLM here. Because the LLm experience is very different here and it depends a lot on your perspective.
Hey guys,

I am at present doing my LLM from LSE. I'm specializing in International Business Law. I have worked for two years before beginning my LLm, so I am certainly not looking out for a training contract. But many of my class mates are and it is indeed very very difficult to get a training contract, but the worst part is that you will have to wait for two years before you can get a training contract. for the training contract that begins in 2010 and 2011, you will have to apply by July 31st 2008. Also after if you are selected for the training contract, you will have to do a LPC before you begin the TC (i.e, if you have no work experience).
An LLm alone will not get you a job over here. There are only two firms at present that recruits LLm students from India and they take only two students from all the colleges in UK and that includes cambridge, LSE, Oxford, UCL etc...
If job is the only concern, then it defeats the whole purpose of doing an LLM here. Because the LLm experience is very different here and it depends a lot on your perspective.
quote
prashbez

I am in final year pursuing B.A.LLB(hons) from Jamia Millia Islamia...I have applied to LSE,KCL AND UCL for LLM in Commercial Laws..I jst wanna knw...
Is fetching a training contract in Uk is next to impossible even after spending the hefty amount ..but god forbid..if one is not able to get himself/herself absorb by the Law firm there...then does Brand Name lke kcl ,ucl ,lse will help u in getting a gud job out here in India..
Regards
Aditi


Hi Parul and Aditi and anyone else with similar queries/ problems. :)

I got a conditional offer from King's College London for 2008-2009 and had to submit my TOEFL/ IELTS scores to get an unconditional offer. I spoke to the KCL persons a few days back and informed them that I had studied all throughout in English. After speaking with me, they informed me that if I submitted a letter from my University where I did my LLB, they would waive the TOEFL/ IELTS for me and give me unconditional admission.

So maybe others who have studied all throughout in English can make a similar request.

Mr. India is right, if you don't have 2 years experience then you'll need to do the LPC/ GDL and a training contract. But if you do have 2 years experience then you need to provide the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) with a letter from your employer certifying your 2 years experience. You can then sit for the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (QLTT) and clear that to qualify as a Solicitor of England and Wales. For Indian lawyers with a LL.B degree from India, you need to clear the Professional Conduct and Accounts paper and the Principles of Common Law paper (you can get an exemption from this paper if you provide them a Certificate from your Law School stating that you did your LL.B in English). The QLTT is not cheap, it'll cost you almost Rs. 80,000/-. But it will help, because after clearing it, you become a qualified Solicitor of England and Wales. Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. India. You can check out the QLTT regulations here:

http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt.page

http://www.sra.org.uk/documents/solicitors/qltt/qltt-regulations.pdf

Regarding the job scene after doing the LLM, I've made some posts on this forum earlier. You can check out this link:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/45698

In addition, from an Indian law firm perspective, the LLM really doesn't help you and this has been mentioned to me by the Managing Partner of one of the top 4 law firms in Delhi, India, a Senior Partner from another big law firm in Mumbai and a number of other senior lawyers. If you plan to come back to India or are forced to come back for a job after the LLM, then it's better that you get some work experience before you go for the LLM. In my view, after 3-5 years of work ex in India, the LLM may help a little bit but not much with Indian law firms. Your salary with the Indian law firms will certainly not jump drastically after the LLM. Yes, if you manage to get 4-5 years work ex after your LLM with a foreign law firm, that would certainly help you if you come back to India.

The UK law firms really don't care if you have a LLM or not. Their hiring decision is not made on the basis of the LLM but on the basis of the LLB and your relevant work experience. By relevant work experience I mean a specialized work ex. which is related to the law firm's areas of expertise. Unlike India where you need a more generalized experience in my view and sometimes in a smaller law firm you're dealing with various areas of law, in UK your experience is more specialized. There's no point in having a general kind of work ex in India if you plan to work outside India. This is feedback which I have received from UK law firms and UK recruitment consultants. In fact not one response from the UK law firms and recruitment consultants has been positive about getting a job in UK after a LLM, for persons with a LLB degree from India especially as the market is also down in the UK at present. The LLM may have more value in other countries like Singapore, Hong Kong etc. but even then you're not sure.

In my view, the LLM may have some value for a MNC and a Legal Process Outsourcing Company in India but there also a lot will depend on your previous work experience. Besides consider this point, why would a UK law firm hire you after a LLM, when there are persons applying to them who have done a 3 year LLB degree from UK and also have UK work experience in comparison to Indian work experience or no work experience? Though India is booming right now and foreign law firms are hiring Indian lawyers for their India Practices as well as other practices, but those lawyers are being hired more for their previous work experience than for their LLM. In fact I personally know some persons from India, who have gotten jobs with foreign law firms without doing a LLM, after about 5-6 years of transactional work.

Just to give you an example of how tough it is to get a job, there was a friend of mine who did his LLM a few years ago from one of the top UK colleges. Before he went for his LLM he was a salaried partner in one of the big Indian law firms in Delhi. After the LLM he didn't get a job for almost one year despite his 6 years of specialized work ex and finally managed to get a job with a UK law firm after a lot of struggle and after sticking on in UK for a couple of years.

FYI I have 10 years of work ex in India and my experience has been very wide and general ranging from litigation to corporate/ transactional work to MNC's and running my own law firm. I am now concentrating on corporate/ transactional work.

My advice is this:
If you're going to take a huge loan and finance your LLM, then you should acquire significant and highly specialized work ex in India to be able to pay off the loan in case you have to come back to India. At a lesser work ex level, it will be very tough to pay off a huge loan especially since your salary in India after the LLM will not increase drastically.

If you have a scholarship and only need to take a minimal loan, go by all means. The LLM will add value to you as a person, academically and give you an exposure which you would not get here in India. Do it for yourself and to get more in depth knowledge in subjects of your interest and in an international environment and if you think you can pay off the loan but don't do it just from a foreign job perspective cause the risks involved are large. An important point is that a large loan puts a lot of pressure on you and gives you much less flexibility till you pay off the loan. Another suggestion is to postpone your admission to next year and earn some money to finance a major part of your studies/ living costs.

I'll probably go for the LLM on borrowed funds but since I have 10 years work ex, I'm really not worried about getting a job and paying off my loans if I do have to come back to India. My reasons for doing the LLM are definitely not from a UK job perspective although it would be welcome if it happens, for the experience.

Anyway all the best with the decision making because I can understand what you're going through. :) Let me know if you need any more help.

Cheers
Prash
<blockquote>
I am in final year pursuing B.A.LLB(hons) from Jamia Millia Islamia...I have applied to LSE,KCL AND UCL for LLM in Commercial Laws..I jst wanna knw...
Is fetching a training contract in Uk is next to impossible even after spending the hefty amount ..but god forbid..if one is not able to get himself/herself absorb by the Law firm there...then does Brand Name lke kcl ,ucl ,lse will help u in getting a gud job out here in India..
Regards
Aditi</blockquote>

Hi Parul and Aditi and anyone else with similar queries/ problems. :)

I got a conditional offer from King's College London for 2008-2009 and had to submit my TOEFL/ IELTS scores to get an unconditional offer. I spoke to the KCL persons a few days back and informed them that I had studied all throughout in English. After speaking with me, they informed me that if I submitted a letter from my University where I did my LLB, they would waive the TOEFL/ IELTS for me and give me unconditional admission.

So maybe others who have studied all throughout in English can make a similar request.

Mr. India is right, if you don't have 2 years experience then you'll need to do the LPC/ GDL and a training contract. But if you do have 2 years experience then you need to provide the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) with a letter from your employer certifying your 2 years experience. You can then sit for the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (QLTT) and clear that to qualify as a Solicitor of England and Wales. For Indian lawyers with a LL.B degree from India, you need to clear the Professional Conduct and Accounts paper and the Principles of Common Law paper (you can get an exemption from this paper if you provide them a Certificate from your Law School stating that you did your LL.B in English). The QLTT is not cheap, it'll cost you almost Rs. 80,000/-. But it will help, because after clearing it, you become a qualified Solicitor of England and Wales. Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. India. You can check out the QLTT regulations here:

http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt.page

http://www.sra.org.uk/documents/solicitors/qltt/qltt-regulations.pdf

Regarding the job scene after doing the LLM, I've made some posts on this forum earlier. You can check out this link:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/45698

In addition, from an Indian law firm perspective, the LLM really doesn't help you and this has been mentioned to me by the Managing Partner of one of the top 4 law firms in Delhi, India, a Senior Partner from another big law firm in Mumbai and a number of other senior lawyers. If you plan to come back to India or are forced to come back for a job after the LLM, then it's better that you get some work experience before you go for the LLM. In my view, after 3-5 years of work ex in India, the LLM may help a little bit but not much with Indian law firms. Your salary with the Indian law firms will certainly not jump drastically after the LLM. Yes, if you manage to get 4-5 years work ex after your LLM with a foreign law firm, that would certainly help you if you come back to India.

The UK law firms really don't care if you have a LLM or not. Their hiring decision is not made on the basis of the LLM but on the basis of the LLB and your relevant work experience. By relevant work experience I mean a specialized work ex. which is related to the law firm's areas of expertise. Unlike India where you need a more generalized experience in my view and sometimes in a smaller law firm you're dealing with various areas of law, in UK your experience is more specialized. There's no point in having a general kind of work ex in India if you plan to work outside India. This is feedback which I have received from UK law firms and UK recruitment consultants. In fact not one response from the UK law firms and recruitment consultants has been positive about getting a job in UK after a LLM, for persons with a LLB degree from India especially as the market is also down in the UK at present. The LLM may have more value in other countries like Singapore, Hong Kong etc. but even then you're not sure.

In my view, the LLM may have some value for a MNC and a Legal Process Outsourcing Company in India but there also a lot will depend on your previous work experience. Besides consider this point, why would a UK law firm hire you after a LLM, when there are persons applying to them who have done a 3 year LLB degree from UK and also have UK work experience in comparison to Indian work experience or no work experience? Though India is booming right now and foreign law firms are hiring Indian lawyers for their India Practices as well as other practices, but those lawyers are being hired more for their previous work experience than for their LLM. In fact I personally know some persons from India, who have gotten jobs with foreign law firms without doing a LLM, after about 5-6 years of transactional work.

Just to give you an example of how tough it is to get a job, there was a friend of mine who did his LLM a few years ago from one of the top UK colleges. Before he went for his LLM he was a salaried partner in one of the big Indian law firms in Delhi. After the LLM he didn't get a job for almost one year despite his 6 years of specialized work ex and finally managed to get a job with a UK law firm after a lot of struggle and after sticking on in UK for a couple of years.

FYI I have 10 years of work ex in India and my experience has been very wide and general ranging from litigation to corporate/ transactional work to MNC's and running my own law firm. I am now concentrating on corporate/ transactional work.

My advice is this:
If you're going to take a huge loan and finance your LLM, then you should acquire significant and highly specialized work ex in India to be able to pay off the loan in case you have to come back to India. At a lesser work ex level, it will be very tough to pay off a huge loan especially since your salary in India after the LLM will not increase drastically.

If you have a scholarship and only need to take a minimal loan, go by all means. The LLM will add value to you as a person, academically and give you an exposure which you would not get here in India. Do it for yourself and to get more in depth knowledge in subjects of your interest and in an international environment and if you think you can pay off the loan but don't do it just from a foreign job perspective cause the risks involved are large. An important point is that a large loan puts a lot of pressure on you and gives you much less flexibility till you pay off the loan. Another suggestion is to postpone your admission to next year and earn some money to finance a major part of your studies/ living costs.

I'll probably go for the LLM on borrowed funds but since I have 10 years work ex, I'm really not worried about getting a job and paying off my loans if I do have to come back to India. My reasons for doing the LLM are definitely not from a UK job perspective although it would be welcome if it happens, for the experience.

Anyway all the best with the decision making because I can understand what you're going through. :) Let me know if you need any more help.

Cheers
Prash
quote
pratish
Can anyone just clearly tell that what will be an ideal route to become a solicitor in UK for a fresh LLB graduate from India planning to LLM from UK.

Is it mandatory to have Indian work ex of 2 yrs to become eligible for QLTT?OR I can do LLM after LLB and then work in UK to appear fro QLTT.
Can anyone just clearly tell that what will be an ideal route to become a solicitor in UK for a fresh LLB graduate from India planning to LLM from UK.

Is it mandatory to have Indian work ex of 2 yrs to become eligible for QLTT?OR I can do LLM after LLB and then work in UK to appear fro QLTT.
quote
prashbez
Pratish

You need 2 years work experience which has to be certified by your employer in order to get the certificate of eligibility to appear for the QLTT. This is mandatory for the QLTT.

If you read my post above, you'll see that it is not easy to get a job in the UK after the LLM especially if you don't have any specialized work experience.

If I were in your place and just finishing my LLB, I would work for a few years in India itself and then go for the LLM, after saving a little money to finance the studies. The other advantage of that is after working for 3-4 years in India, you'll know exactly which areas of law really interest you.

Unless of course you really want to do the LLM from an academic purpose in which case you can go after your LLB. But from your posts it doesn't seem that you're doing the LLM purely for academic reasons.

Just PM me and I'll give you my cell number. We can then have a chat over the phone.

Where are you going for the LLM in case you decide to go?

Cheers
Prash
Pratish

You need 2 years work experience which has to be certified by your employer in order to get the certificate of eligibility to appear for the QLTT. This is mandatory for the QLTT.

If you read my post above, you'll see that it is not easy to get a job in the UK after the LLM especially if you don't have any specialized work experience.

If I were in your place and just finishing my LLB, I would work for a few years in India itself and then go for the LLM, after saving a little money to finance the studies. The other advantage of that is after working for 3-4 years in India, you'll know exactly which areas of law really interest you.

Unless of course you really want to do the LLM from an academic purpose in which case you can go after your LLB. But from your posts it doesn't seem that you're doing the LLM purely for academic reasons.

Just PM me and I'll give you my cell number. We can then have a chat over the phone.

Where are you going for the LLM in case you decide to go?

Cheers
Prash




quote
mrindia
Prash has given a very very detailed and authentic insight to what the situation actually is. His posting is a must read for all students coming to UK to do an LLM. Many students from India and other countries in Asia come to UK with the expectation that they will do an LLM and then work at a UK law firm. But it is almost impossible to find a job that ways. Just to reiterate what prash said law firms will hire if you have good amount of work experience. They are at present hiring Indian lawyers only to their India Practice group and that too because they expect the Indian legal market to be open to foreign law firms soon and most of the indians handle work that has something to do with India. At LSE there are approximately 25 Indian LLM students. just take the number of students taht will be there in whole of Uk and 90% will want to work here out of which at the max only 2 gets selected a year. It is literally impossible for people without a work ex to get selected and what is more important is (what i have noticed) that people with work exp is sure of the subjects they want to do and more compsed relaxed and focussed. The students who are just out of college gets overwhelmed by the reading list and the way things are done here.
Prash has given a very very detailed and authentic insight to what the situation actually is. His posting is a must read for all students coming to UK to do an LLM. Many students from India and other countries in Asia come to UK with the expectation that they will do an LLM and then work at a UK law firm. But it is almost impossible to find a job that ways. Just to reiterate what prash said law firms will hire if you have good amount of work experience. They are at present hiring Indian lawyers only to their India Practice group and that too because they expect the Indian legal market to be open to foreign law firms soon and most of the indians handle work that has something to do with India. At LSE there are approximately 25 Indian LLM students. just take the number of students taht will be there in whole of Uk and 90% will want to work here out of which at the max only 2 gets selected a year. It is literally impossible for people without a work ex to get selected and what is more important is (what i have noticed) that people with work exp is sure of the subjects they want to do and more compsed relaxed and focussed. The students who are just out of college gets overwhelmed by the reading list and the way things are done here.
quote
prashbez
Mr. India. Thanks for your comments.

I think your being there and actually doing the LLM from LSE makes you the right person to advise the Indian students.

My long post above has been made after detailed research on the situation and talking to friends who did their LLM in UK and are working there now in addition to talking to friends who came back to India after the LLM. In addition I've also gotten feedback from law firms in UK and recruitment consultants in UK.

I'll combine all my posts on these issues and make a blog so that it's easier for every Indian student to get the information in one place.

Take Care and all the best with the job scene.

Cheers
Prash
Mr. India. Thanks for your comments.

I think your being there and actually doing the LLM from LSE makes you the right person to advise the Indian students.

My long post above has been made after detailed research on the situation and talking to friends who did their LLM in UK and are working there now in addition to talking to friends who came back to India after the LLM. In addition I've also gotten feedback from law firms in UK and recruitment consultants in UK.

I'll combine all my posts on these issues and make a blog so that it's easier for every Indian student to get the information in one place.

Take Care and all the best with the job scene.

Cheers
Prash
quote

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