Hypothetical Harvard or Cambridge


harry1985
Just for the sake of discussion I thought I'd post this. I've got an acceptance from Cambridge and not heard anything from Harvard yet. Wondering if any of you are in the same boat and if so what you would choose. I have a UK LLB and have various legal interests: constitutional and admin, international and human rights. Is Harvard worth the money? Does anyone know anything about acceptance into a UK PhD programme with a Harvard LLM ?
Just for the sake of discussion I thought I'd post this. I've got an acceptance from Cambridge and not heard anything from Harvard yet. Wondering if any of you are in the same boat and if so what you would choose. I have a UK LLB and have various legal interests: constitutional and admin, international and human rights. Is Harvard worth the money? Does anyone know anything about acceptance into a UK PhD programme with a Harvard LLM ?
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Santa
I can only tell you about my personal situation, but as a belgian student I would go to Harvard, because a US degree would give me more advantages (US culture, US legal system, ...).
I can only tell you about my personal situation, but as a belgian student I would go to Harvard, because a US degree would give me more advantages (US culture, US legal system, ...).
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crimlawyer
This is exactly my case, an offer from cam an still waiting for Harvard. I still prefer not to think but I am inclined to go to Harvard...

By the way, do you know when people started receiving acceptances last year? And do they send e-mails, or just letters?
This is exactly my case, an offer from cam an still waiting for Harvard. I still prefer not to think but I am inclined to go to Harvard...

By the way, do you know when people started receiving acceptances last year? And do they send e-mails, or just letters?
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M_T_Cicero
Harry

That is an interesting question re PhD potential in the UK with a Harvard LLM. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that it would stand you in good stead to find a PhD programme in the US where, of course, the funding options are more generous but I really have know idea if it would help you UK wise. I'm actually wondering about how useful a LLM from Cambridge will be when I come to applying for PhD places/funding and to be honest, I'm slightly concerned that it wont be as useful as a more concentrated programme from, say, the UOL. Out of interest, what are your initial thoughts re both options?
Harry

That is an interesting question re PhD potential in the UK with a Harvard LLM. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that it would stand you in good stead to find a PhD programme in the US where, of course, the funding options are more generous but I really have know idea if it would help you UK wise. I'm actually wondering about how useful a LLM from Cambridge will be when I come to applying for PhD places/funding and to be honest, I'm slightly concerned that it wont be as useful as a more concentrated programme from, say, the UOL. Out of interest, what are your initial thoughts re both options?
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harry1985
If I get in I will find it hard to turn down Harvard, for the name, the opportunity and being in the US - as a change from the UK and France, the only two places I have previously studied. However, unless I get funding it is a lot of money for what has continually been described as 1/3 of a JD. I want to do an LLM mainly to refine my legal interests prior to a PhD. I think an LLM can be very useful in respect of applying for PhD places, particularly if you take the thesis option and develop good relationships with lecturers. I think as regards your question between Cambridge and UOL, it's a hard one but Cambridge has an internationally renowned faculty and I think it has the edge over UoL. You can still specialise within their, albeit more limited, course options. Good luck with your choices.
If I get in I will find it hard to turn down Harvard, for the name, the opportunity and being in the US - as a change from the UK and France, the only two places I have previously studied. However, unless I get funding it is a lot of money for what has continually been described as 1/3 of a JD. I want to do an LLM mainly to refine my legal interests prior to a PhD. I think an LLM can be very useful in respect of applying for PhD places, particularly if you take the thesis option and develop good relationships with lecturers. I think as regards your question between Cambridge and UOL, it's a hard one but Cambridge has an internationally renowned faculty and I think it has the edge over UoL. You can still specialise within their, albeit more limited, course options. Good luck with your choices.
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M_T_Cicero
I think the opportunity to study at Harvard is an exciting option to possibly have and, if you get the funding, it will certainly be an experience. Perhaps it isn't an option you fancy but I think that, as I said in the first post, it will, in the very least, open up some US funding for you. I take it you haven't opted to apply for the BCL or this Yale LLM which everyone seems to hold so highly?

I completely agree that an LLM will be a useful tool when applying for PhD and with the Oxbridge options, a thesis option is necessary to show some research ability. Perhaps like you, after an LLB I don't feel quite ready to pursue my own research so I'm hoping that my the knowledge I'll gain and the experience can tip me over the edge, as it were. Best of lcuk to you as well and I'm sorry I can't be of my assistance!
I think the opportunity to study at Harvard is an exciting option to possibly have and, if you get the funding, it will certainly be an experience. Perhaps it isn't an option you fancy but I think that, as I said in the first post, it will, in the very least, open up some US funding for you. I take it you haven't opted to apply for the BCL or this Yale LLM which everyone seems to hold so highly?

I completely agree that an LLM will be a useful tool when applying for PhD and with the Oxbridge options, a thesis option is necessary to show some research ability. Perhaps like you, after an LLB I don't feel quite ready to pursue my own research so I'm hoping that my the knowledge I'll gain and the experience can tip me over the edge, as it were. Best of lcuk to you as well and I'm sorry I can't be of my assistance!
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Harry,
Thank you for posting this. The hypothetical is now a reality for me.. I've had the fortunate luck of being accepted to both the LLM at Harvard and the LLM at Cambridge but am having major trouble picking one over the other. Also did my LLB at the University of London. Anyone with any opinions/advice/experience at either .. Your views would be very useful! Thanks alot in advance !
Harry,
Thank you for posting this. The hypothetical is now a reality for me.. I've had the fortunate luck of being accepted to both the LLM at Harvard and the LLM at Cambridge but am having major trouble picking one over the other. Also did my LLB at the University of London. Anyone with any opinions/advice/experience at either .. Your views would be very useful! Thanks alot in advance !
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crimlawyer
Me too. I am very inclined to go to Harvard.
Me too. I am very inclined to go to Harvard.
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harry1985
It's now a reality for me too. How lucky we are! I'm leaning towards Harvard, it would offer a different legal experience and you can't discount the name (as shallow as that sounds). I think in terms of teaching quality though, i.e. time with professors and courses perhaps Cambridge has the edge? I'd appreciate any comments on this. And of course, congratulations guys.
It's now a reality for me too. How lucky we are! I'm leaning towards Harvard, it would offer a different legal experience and you can't discount the name (as shallow as that sounds). I think in terms of teaching quality though, i.e. time with professors and courses perhaps Cambridge has the edge? I'd appreciate any comments on this. And of course, congratulations guys.
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newbie01
IMHO: Harvard would be a tremendous experience and outranges Cambridge's LL.M. Program by quite a bit! However, you also have to take into account the cost-factor. Almost every US-LLM will cost you at least 70.000 $ (including living expenses); Cambridge, however, will cost you 5500 £ (7700 $) tuition/college fee plus 13500 £ (9 month × 1500 £/ 19000 $) living expenses. So the total costs for Cambridge amount to 26000 $ compared to Harvard's 70000 $.
I face the same problem as you guys since I actually always wanted to go to the US and also have offers from several top Unis in the US. However, having the offer from Cambridge, considering Cambridge's reputation and the cost factor, I will most probably go to Cambridge. If you can afford it though, I would go to Harvard. Hope this helps a little bit! Cheers!
IMHO: Harvard would be a tremendous experience and outranges Cambridge's LL.M. Program by quite a bit! However, you also have to take into account the cost-factor. Almost every US-LLM will cost you at least 70.000 $ (including living expenses); Cambridge, however, will cost you 5500 £ (7700 $) tuition/college fee plus 13500 £ (9 month × 1500 £/ 19000 $) living expenses. So the total costs for Cambridge amount to 26000 $ compared to Harvard's 70000 $.
I face the same problem as you guys since I actually always wanted to go to the US and also have offers from several top Unis in the US. However, having the offer from Cambridge, considering Cambridge's reputation and the cost factor, I will most probably go to Cambridge. If you can afford it though, I would go to Harvard. Hope this helps a little bit! Cheers!
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Cetinkaya
Harvard. From a business perspective It's a winner on paper.
Harvard. From a business perspective It's a winner on paper.
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Cambridge.

Comparing cost v. benefit, if you plan to remain in the US after graduation, an LLM from Harvard will not be of extraordinary value, especially in this bad economy where jobs of any kind are scarce. If you plan to return home, perhaps the cache of Harvard will be worth the comparatively high cost.

The respect afforded by Americans to Cambridge, coupled with its high quality as an instution, vaults Cambridge to the top in this battle of institutions...in light of the cost differential.

Ceteris paribus, Harvard's reputation in the US might eek out a (slim) victory against Cambridge's reputation in the US....but not when cost is factored into the equation.
Cambridge.

Comparing cost v. benefit, if you plan to remain in the US after graduation, an LLM from Harvard will not be of extraordinary value, especially in this bad economy where jobs of any kind are scarce. If you plan to return home, perhaps the cache of Harvard will be worth the comparatively high cost.

The respect afforded by Americans to Cambridge, coupled with its high quality as an instution, vaults Cambridge to the top in this battle of institutions...in light of the cost differential.

Ceteris paribus, Harvard's reputation in the US might eek out a (slim) victory against Cambridge's reputation in the US....but not when cost is factored into the equation.
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crimlawyer
Do you sincerely believe Cambridge to be better?

I think Harvard is the materialization of good education in the world, the very epitome of it.
Do you sincerely believe Cambridge to be better?

I think Harvard is the materialization of good education in the world, the very epitome of it.
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Do you sincerely believe Cambridge to be better?

I think Harvard is the materialization of good education in the world, the very epitome of it.


I have not attended either institution, so I cannot compare their respective quality. However, I do know that within the US, Harvard's LLM program is not nearly as acclaimed as its JD program. Yale, on the other hand, has an LLM program that is as highly regarded as its JD program.

I know several people who have earned degrees from Harvard, and I do not believe that any of them would say that Harvard is the epitome of a good education. Certainly, though, Harvard is the epitome of a good reputation!
<blockquote>Do you sincerely believe Cambridge to be better?

I think Harvard is the materialization of good education in the world, the very epitome of it.</blockquote>

I have not attended either institution, so I cannot compare their respective quality. However, I do know that within the US, Harvard's LLM program is not nearly as acclaimed as its JD program. Yale, on the other hand, has an LLM program that is as highly regarded as its JD program.

I know several people who have earned degrees from Harvard, and I do not believe that any of them would say that Harvard is the epitome of a good education. Certainly, though, Harvard is the epitome of a good reputation!
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crimlawyer
So, financial considerations aside you would go to cambridge?
So, financial considerations aside you would go to cambridge?
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im really not sure where some of you get your stats/info from ... "harvards LLM is not as good as its JD" - according to whom? Yes, yale is usually ranked 1st worldwide with harvard coming in a close 2nd but that applies to its entire law department and not just the JD program. Also, Yale (LLM) only accept 25 a year and its program is designed for those intending to pursue a career in academia only .. so, yes, harvard is still about as good as it gets especially when compared to oxbridge which trail further down in the international tables. In addition, the Harvard LLM offers an absolutely unparalleled breadth of opportunity for specialization, have you had a look at the modules on offer? You'd be spoilt for choice. I am also slightly put off by the conservative nature of oxbridge - whereas harvard is more liberal and dare i suggest less elitist.

i think it really comes down to the financial issue.

crimlawyer and harry, i say we sort out our finances and pack our bags.. the more i think about it the more i'm inclined to just go for harvard....
im really not sure where some of you get your stats/info from ... "harvards LLM is not as good as its JD" - according to whom? Yes, yale is usually ranked 1st worldwide with harvard coming in a close 2nd but that applies to its entire law department and not just the JD program. Also, Yale (LLM) only accept 25 a year and its program is designed for those intending to pursue a career in academia only .. so, yes, harvard is still about as good as it gets especially when compared to oxbridge which trail further down in the international tables. In addition, the Harvard LLM offers an absolutely unparalleled breadth of opportunity for specialization, have you had a look at the modules on offer? You'd be spoilt for choice. I am also slightly put off by the conservative nature of oxbridge - whereas harvard is more liberal and dare i suggest less elitist.

i think it really comes down to the financial issue.

crimlawyer and harry, i say we sort out our finances and pack our bags.. the more i think about it the more i'm inclined to just go for harvard....
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crimlawyer
I am totally convinced of going to harvard, plus I believe Yale has never ranked better in any international ranking (QS and Shiangjiao)
I am totally convinced of going to harvard, plus I believe Yale has never ranked better in any international ranking (QS and Shiangjiao)
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crimlawyer
I messed up... yale was never mentioned here... hehehe

I am totally for HLS
I messed up... yale was never mentioned here... hehehe

I am totally for HLS
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So, financial considerations aside you would go to cambridge?


Hard to say what I would do. Either would be a great choice and a true privilege. So few people are admitted into top programs such as these. For those who plan to attend Harvard, I know that you will enjoy your time in Boston, one of America's finest cities.
<blockquote>So, financial considerations aside you would go to cambridge?</blockquote>

Hard to say what I would do. Either would be a great choice and a true privilege. So few people are admitted into top programs such as these. For those who plan to attend Harvard, I know that you will enjoy your time in Boston, one of America's finest cities.
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M_T_Cicero
Surely this sort of debate comes down to subjective considerations such as the courses that a student wants to study and the career route they want to follow rather than essentially useless league tables which, as far as I know, are cross faculty rather than law specific.

Personally, I didn't apply to any US institutions because I had no interest studying there at LLM stage (the gf has enough problems with me being 3 hours away, let alone a few thousand miles!) but I can see the draw for UK students who have been successful. It will be a different type of experience to a Oxbridge/LSE and it will certainly make your CV stand out when, and if, you come back. This is particularly true if their interests lie in something corporate/commercial because really, so many institutions have strong provision in this sort of area that why not go to Harvard. However, what would the point be in trekking there and spending the extra money if your interests lay in a particular speciality of Cambridge or Oxford? For example, I've just navigated through the (very impressive) course list to find that on the English legal history reading list, the primary resource is the book written by the Professor you would be taught by at Cambridge. Unfortunately not many reading lists appear on the small list I looked at so I can't litter this page with similar examples but, I'm sure you get my drift. You cannot go wrong with either Oxbridge or Harvard, Yale etc so look at your personal circumstances and situation rather than try to find 'which one is better' because, ultimately, it depends on what YOU are looking for.
Surely this sort of debate comes down to subjective considerations such as the courses that a student wants to study and the career route they want to follow rather than essentially useless league tables which, as far as I know, are cross faculty rather than law specific.

Personally, I didn't apply to any US institutions because I had no interest studying there at LLM stage (the gf has enough problems with me being 3 hours away, let alone a few thousand miles!) but I can see the draw for UK students who have been successful. It will be a different type of experience to a Oxbridge/LSE and it will certainly make your CV stand out when, and if, you come back. This is particularly true if their interests lie in something corporate/commercial because really, so many institutions have strong provision in this sort of area that why not go to Harvard. However, what would the point be in trekking there and spending the extra money if your interests lay in a particular speciality of Cambridge or Oxford? For example, I've just navigated through the (very impressive) course list to find that on the English legal history reading list, the primary resource is the book written by the Professor you would be taught by at Cambridge. Unfortunately not many reading lists appear on the small list I looked at so I can't litter this page with similar examples but, I'm sure you get my drift. You cannot go wrong with either Oxbridge or Harvard, Yale etc so look at your personal circumstances and situation rather than try to find 'which one is better' because, ultimately, it depends on what YOU are looking for.
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