GDL or LLM?


Hi,
I have been offered a place at Graduate Diploma in Law ( CPE ) course at BPP, London.
However I am wondering if it would be better for me to do a LLM first? I was thinking about applying for Queen Mary Uni or Kings College.
What would you advise me, guys?
I already have a Master of Arts in Law from Poland, and it is not a common law system, so perhaps should I do CPE first? Or forget about it and focus on CPE ... I was thinking about studying Enviromental Law or Energy Law LLM. Is there anything such as the latter one anyway?
Thanks for help.
Hi,
I have been offered a place at Graduate Diploma in Law ( CPE ) course at BPP, London.
However I am wondering if it would be better for me to do a LLM first? I was thinking about applying for Queen Mary Uni or Kings College.
What would you advise me, guys?
I already have a Master of Arts in Law from Poland, and it is not a common law system, so perhaps should I do CPE first? Or forget about it and focus on CPE ... I was thinking about studying Enviromental Law or Energy Law LLM. Is there anything such as the latter one anyway?
Thanks for help.
quote
katxyz
It really depends what you want the GDL or the LLM for.

If you want to practice law in the UK, and you can't take the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (for example, if you aren't qualified yet in your own country, or you don't meet the requirements - see the Law Society's website for details) then you will need the GDL and then the LPC or the BVC to qualify in the UK.

The LLM won't help you to practice in the UK, but if you're just doing it for interest/academic reasons then go for it, because the GDL is not a particularly interesting course!

Any questions about the GDL at BPP ask away - I did it last year.
It really depends what you want the GDL or the LLM for.

If you want to practice law in the UK, and you can't take the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (for example, if you aren't qualified yet in your own country, or you don't meet the requirements - see the Law Society's website for details) then you will need the GDL and then the LPC or the BVC to qualify in the UK.

The LLM won't help you to practice in the UK, but if you're just doing it for interest/academic reasons then go for it, because the GDL is not a particularly interesting course!

Any questions about the GDL at BPP ask away - I did it last year.
quote
OK I am asking straight away - was it possible to secure training contract whilst studying? Have you heard about any such case? As per me I didn't manage to receive any vacation scheme placement and I am afraid that same thing will be with training conract.
And how difficult was it anyway?
OK I am asking straight away - was it possible to secure training contract whilst studying? Have you heard about any such case? As per me I didn't manage to receive any vacation scheme placement and I am afraid that same thing will be with training conract.
And how difficult was it anyway?
quote
katxyz
I already had a training contract before I started the GDL, but many people - I would say about 50% - of the GDL students didn't have training contracts at the beginning of the course. BPP has a very good careers service, they help with your cv and application forms, with interviewing and there are regular events with firms. I don't know what the statistics are but many people do get training contracts (I don't want to say "most", but it is certainly quite common.) That said, there are always a few people who do not find anything throughout their time on the GDL and the LPC, and they then, I assume, pursue other careers.
One of my friends did not have a training contract before starting the GDL, he had no vacation placements either. During the GDL he did a couple of vacation placements, but it was only a few months ago (he's now on the LPC) that he secured a training contract.
The GDL is not too difficult. There's quite a lot of work because you're basically cramming the essentials of a law degree into one year, but BPP is a great place to do it as they give you all the materials you need, they really guide your work, and make it as doable as possible.
I already had a training contract before I started the GDL, but many people - I would say about 50% - of the GDL students didn't have training contracts at the beginning of the course. BPP has a very good careers service, they help with your cv and application forms, with interviewing and there are regular events with firms. I don't know what the statistics are but many people do get training contracts (I don't want to say "most", but it is certainly quite common.) That said, there are always a few people who do not find anything throughout their time on the GDL and the LPC, and they then, I assume, pursue other careers.
One of my friends did not have a training contract before starting the GDL, he had no vacation placements either. During the GDL he did a couple of vacation placements, but it was only a few months ago (he's now on the LPC) that he secured a training contract.
The GDL is not too difficult. There's quite a lot of work because you're basically cramming the essentials of a law degree into one year, but BPP is a great place to do it as they give you all the materials you need, they really guide your work, and make it as doable as possible.
quote
Thanks for your help. I am only worried about being in debt after CPE and LPC and without a chance for a further job.
That's why I also consider doing part - time LLM.
Are you doing LPC at BPP now?
Thanks for your help. I am only worried about being in debt after CPE and LPC and without a chance for a further job.
That's why I also consider doing part - time LLM.
Are you doing LPC at BPP now?
quote
katxyz
Yes I am.
You can also do the GDL part time, you know.
Why do you want to do an LLM?
Yes I am.
You can also do the GDL part time, you know.
Why do you want to do an LLM?
quote
I have had some foreign students emailing me on this question as well.
Part of the answer depends on what you want to do? Are you committed to becoming English qualifed above else and working for an English based law firm or working in that environment.
If that is the case then perhaps do the GDL first. (subject to the fact that if you are qualified already you can do the qualified lawyers transfer test as mentioned above).
However, if you are not too sure about what you want to do next then a LLM programme might be an idea. You can gain new knowledge and skills-have a good look round the London and UK legal scene get an "on the ground" idea of what the opportunities are, see about getting a training contract from a law firm-and then take the GDL. If you don't get a training contract or generally decide the English are dreadful, the weather is worst still, and the food is indescribable then you have lost nothing-and gain a useful legal qualification which has value back home and wherever else you want to go.
The only major issue for you then is to ensure that you take an LLM programme which will really have some value for your career development.

With all the best luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
I have had some foreign students emailing me on this question as well.
Part of the answer depends on what you want to do? Are you committed to becoming English qualifed above else and working for an English based law firm or working in that environment.
If that is the case then perhaps do the GDL first. (subject to the fact that if you are qualified already you can do the qualified lawyers transfer test as mentioned above).
However, if you are not too sure about what you want to do next then a LLM programme might be an idea. You can gain new knowledge and skills-have a good look round the London and UK legal scene get an "on the ground" idea of what the opportunities are, see about getting a training contract from a law firm-and then take the GDL. If you don't get a training contract or generally decide the English are dreadful, the weather is worst still, and the food is indescribable then you have lost nothing-and gain a useful legal qualification which has value back home and wherever else you want to go.
The only major issue for you then is to ensure that you take an LLM programme which will really have some value for your career development.

With all the best luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
quote
I would consider LLM in matter that interests me such as energy law, sources of energy management, environmental law. I haven't had such thing as energy law issues during my studies and have no working experience in any companies -energy providers - that would help with my application.
I am bit worried therefore about getting into such course - competition is strong as usual and I was already refused LLm at London School of Economy.
I would consider LLM in matter that interests me such as energy law, sources of energy management, environmental law. I haven't had such thing as energy law issues during my studies and have no working experience in any companies -energy providers - that would help with my application.
I am bit worried therefore about getting into such course - competition is strong as usual and I was already refused LLm at London School of Economy.
quote
Deepstar
You mention above Mikolaj that you want a TC - if thats the case then obviously you will need the GDL and doing the LLM before you have a TC secured is just adding on costs (not just tuition - don't forget its expensive living in London).

However, as someone who has done the LPC and hasn't yet secured a TC I'd suggest you really look into your chances of obtaining a TC with a firm practicing the area of law you want. It is meant to be harder to get a vac. scheme than a TC (although to me they seem just as impenetrable as the other!) but have you checked that your academics are enough? If not then you may want to either undertake some legal experience and/or do the LLM to improve your chances.

The GDL & LPC are a huge financial committment and unless you have a TC beforehand with sponsorship or you're very rich then you'll probably be paying the fees off for a very long time. In this respect I'm speaking from experience and I didn't even do the GDL, just the LPC.

Basically you're going to have to weigh up the financial risks of the two options (LLM first or GDL/LPC first) and what difference it may make to your chances of securing a TC. If you can try to attend law fairs and speak to the recruiters at your chosen firms and find out what they would recommend.

Hope the above helped but I have a feeling it will have confused you more! Don't forget - speak to the recruiters!
You mention above Mikolaj that you want a TC - if thats the case then obviously you will need the GDL and doing the LLM before you have a TC secured is just adding on costs (not just tuition - don't forget its expensive living in London).

However, as someone who has done the LPC and hasn't yet secured a TC I'd suggest you really look into your chances of obtaining a TC with a firm practicing the area of law you want. It is meant to be harder to get a vac. scheme than a TC (although to me they seem just as impenetrable as the other!) but have you checked that your academics are enough? If not then you may want to either undertake some legal experience and/or do the LLM to improve your chances.

The GDL & LPC are a huge financial committment and unless you have a TC beforehand with sponsorship or you're very rich then you'll probably be paying the fees off for a very long time. In this respect I'm speaking from experience and I didn't even do the GDL, just the LPC.

Basically you're going to have to weigh up the financial risks of the two options (LLM first or GDL/LPC first) and what difference it may make to your chances of securing a TC. If you can try to attend law fairs and speak to the recruiters at your chosen firms and find out what they would recommend.

Hope the above helped but I have a feeling it will have confused you more! Don't forget - speak to the recruiters!
quote
Mikolaj
You mentioned you are interested in energy law. In that case you really should have a look at the world class energy law centre at Dundee. If you can get in there-the reputation of the centre and the contacts it will give you will help tremendously in getting into that sector.
See http://www.dundee.ac.uk/cepmlp/

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London.
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
Mikolaj
You mentioned you are interested in energy law. In that case you really should have a look at the world class energy law centre at Dundee. If you can get in there-the reputation of the centre and the contacts it will give you will help tremendously in getting into that sector.
See http://www.dundee.ac.uk/cepmlp/

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London.
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
quote
Yes it's true that this school is very good it terms of studying. However amount 12000 GBP per year makes me search for less sophisticated courses. I was rather thinking about UCL.
Yes it's true that this school is very good it terms of studying. However amount 12000 GBP per year makes me search for less sophisticated courses. I was rather thinking about UCL.
quote
Mikolaj
If that is the top course, and you want to do it, and you have the grades to get in don't letter the money stop you. There are ways round. On another distribution list on this site I mentioned Palgrave the global register of charities who provide educational grants-at least check it out-and see if it can make it easier to pay for the course. I would have thought give its links to the energy sector Dundee must be able to tap resources for good and able students-again check them out.

with best of luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London.
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
Mikolaj
If that is the top course, and you want to do it, and you have the grades to get in don't letter the money stop you. There are ways round. On another distribution list on this site I mentioned Palgrave the global register of charities who provide educational grants-at least check it out-and see if it can make it easier to pay for the course. I would have thought give its links to the energy sector Dundee must be able to tap resources for good and able students-again check them out.

with best of luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London.
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk

quote
ye
Has anyone gone from CPE to LLM recently?

How easy is it to get into a LLM without a LLB? And how do law firms see this choice of action? If you have secured a training contract will firms let you study a LLM before commencing your TC or is a LLM something to do after you qualify?

any thoughts welcome
Has anyone gone from CPE to LLM recently?

How easy is it to get into a LLM without a LLB? And how do law firms see this choice of action? If you have secured a training contract will firms let you study a LLM before commencing your TC or is a LLM something to do after you qualify?

any thoughts welcome
quote
katxyz
Yes, I did the GDL (CPE) and now doing the LPC, and going to do an LLM next year. I already had a TC lined up, and my firm didn't much care whether I deferred for a year or not. I know some people who are planning to do an LLM after qualifying but I decided to do it first because I'm not sure that I will want to break up my work afterwards - this way, I don't have to give up my job to do the LLM, as I can just start later.
Yes, I did the GDL (CPE) and now doing the LPC, and going to do an LLM next year. I already had a TC lined up, and my firm didn't much care whether I deferred for a year or not. I know some people who are planning to do an LLM after qualifying but I decided to do it first because I'm not sure that I will want to break up my work afterwards - this way, I don't have to give up my job to do the LLM, as I can just start later.
quote
Naz G
Hi there,

I don't think you need an LLM to secure a training contract. If you are concerned that your academic grades aren't good enough, I think you would be better off focussing on achieving a good grade for the GDL. This is how I was able to offset concerns that my school academic record did not meet the minimum requirements for the law firm that ultimately offered me my training contract.

In my opinion the other important thing to do is to ensure that you keep applying for TCs and aim to continually improve the standard of your applications. While I was at law school I saw many people that lowered their chances of success by giving up after a load of rejections and by making half-hearted attempts at the application process.

Be as committed and as resourceful as possible (e.g. talk to people that have training contracts, get them to look at your applications, use lawcareers.net and the student section of Chambersandpartners.com, constantly increase your commercial awareness if you want to go to a big firm) and you will find a TC.

Good luck!

Naz
Hi there,

I don't think you need an LLM to secure a training contract. If you are concerned that your academic grades aren't good enough, I think you would be better off focussing on achieving a good grade for the GDL. This is how I was able to offset concerns that my school academic record did not meet the minimum requirements for the law firm that ultimately offered me my training contract.

In my opinion the other important thing to do is to ensure that you keep applying for TCs and aim to continually improve the standard of your applications. While I was at law school I saw many people that lowered their chances of success by giving up after a load of rejections and by making half-hearted attempts at the application process.

Be as committed and as resourceful as possible (e.g. talk to people that have training contracts, get them to look at your applications, use lawcareers.net and the student section of Chambersandpartners.com, constantly increase your commercial awareness if you want to go to a big firm) and you will find a TC.

Good luck!

Naz
quote
Hello there!

I have just sent my application to complete my GDL (starting September 2015). I have the intention of qualifying as a corporate solicitor afterwards, this is for this reason that I intend on studying a LL.M. in Corporate Law. However, I am not sure whether I should do that between the GDL and LPC, or whether it is better to study the LL.M after both the GDL and LPC?

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thank you in advance !
Hello there!

I have just sent my application to complete my GDL (starting September 2015). I have the intention of qualifying as a corporate solicitor afterwards, this is for this reason that I intend on studying a LL.M. in Corporate Law. However, I am not sure whether I should do that between the GDL and LPC, or whether it is better to study the LL.M after both the GDL and LPC?

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thank you in advance !
quote
law01
Hello there!

I have just sent my application to complete my GDL (starting September 2015). I have the intention of qualifying as a corporate solicitor afterwards, this is for this reason that I intend on studying a LL.M. in Corporate Law. However, I am not sure whether I should do that between the GDL and LPC, or whether it is better to study the LL.M after both the GDL and LPC?

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thank you in advance !


Hi,

I've sent you a pm addressing your question!
<blockquote>Hello there!

I have just sent my application to complete my GDL (starting September 2015). I have the intention of qualifying as a corporate solicitor afterwards, this is for this reason that I intend on studying a LL.M. in Corporate Law. However, I am not sure whether I should do that between the GDL and LPC, or whether it is better to study the LL.M after both the GDL and LPC?

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thank you in advance !</blockquote>

Hi,

I've sent you a pm addressing your question!
quote
Lebedewk
Good evening,

I am an international student on LLM program in University of Aberdeen. I study international commercial law. I want to practice in the UK and I think to take up GDL after LLM.
Please, give me a piece of advice about how to get TC?!?!Or how to act in order to receive it?

Thank you.
Good evening,

I am an international student on LLM program in University of Aberdeen. I study international commercial law. I want to practice in the UK and I think to take up GDL after LLM.
Please, give me a piece of advice about how to get TC?!?!Or how to act in order to receive it?

Thank you.
quote

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