Entry requirements: OxBridge, UCL, LSE (how far into the minimum requirements?)


Leanne
The miminum LLM/BCL entry requirements for OxBridge are 1st & 2:1 for UCL and LSE. I've been told that a 1st is equivalent to 70%. Does anyone know what the realistic requirements for these 4 universities are? (72%? 75%?) i.e. how far the cut-off points are from the stated minimum requirements.

Thank you.
The miminum LLM/BCL entry requirements for OxBridge are 1st & 2:1 for UCL and LSE. I've been told that a 1st is equivalent to 70%. Does anyone know what the realistic requirements for these 4 universities are? (72%? 75%?) i.e. how far the cut-off points are from the stated minimum requirements.

Thank you.
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I believe that class ranking is the main determinant. For Oxbridge, you should be in the top 10 (preferrably the top 5 I believe). Raw grades are less helpful than rankings because some schools deflate while others inflate their grades, making any meaningful comparrision futile. But ranking you against your peers in your llb provides a clear snap shot of your calibre...
I believe that class ranking is the main determinant. For Oxbridge, you should be in the top 10 (preferrably the top 5 I believe). Raw grades are less helpful than rankings because some schools deflate while others inflate their grades, making any meaningful comparrision futile. But ranking you against your peers in your llb provides a clear snap shot of your calibre...
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Brett
I would respectfully disagree. Where one is placed within class rankings is subject to two key variables: size and quality of class. I could attend the smallest, worst University if I wanted to and ease my way to the higher end of the class or have chosen to study at the best University in the country and received a better degree. No schools in England can deflate or inflate their grades as they are all marked externally to verify the marks, I assume you study elsewhere?
I would respectfully disagree. Where one is placed within class rankings is subject to two key variables: size and quality of class. I could attend the smallest, worst University if I wanted to and ease my way to the higher end of the class or have chosen to study at the best University in the country and received a better degree. No schools in England can deflate or inflate their grades as they are all marked externally to verify the marks, I assume you study elsewhere?
quote
I'm going to have to side more with Equity on this one (at least as it applies to non-U.K. applicants). With the exception perhaps of the few schools at the extreme ends of the reputational spectrum, my personal observation has been that successful Oxbridge applicants do tend to come from at or near the top of their classes. Indeed, I know Oxford for one is quite forthcoming about its preference in this respect. While there are certainly drawbacks to this methodology (as Brett is quick to point out), no application screening process is without its blind spots.

btw, returning to the original question, and for what it's worth (especially given the grading idiosyncrasies of each jurisdiction), I'm a Canadian with an A- (around 80%) average from a good law school and somehow got into Oxford, LSE and UCL. My advice would be to just apply and see what happens.

Best of luck!
I'm going to have to side more with Equity on this one (at least as it applies to non-U.K. applicants). With the exception perhaps of the few schools at the extreme ends of the reputational spectrum, my personal observation has been that successful Oxbridge applicants do tend to come from at or near the top of their classes. Indeed, I know Oxford for one is quite forthcoming about its preference in this respect. While there are certainly drawbacks to this methodology (as Brett is quick to point out), no application screening process is without its blind spots.

btw, returning to the original question, and for what it's worth (especially given the grading idiosyncrasies of each jurisdiction), I'm a Canadian with an A- (around 80%) average from a good law school and somehow got into Oxford, LSE and UCL. My advice would be to just apply and see what happens.

Best of luck!
quote
I agree there are unfair and subjective draw - backs to the class ranking formula. My point, however, is not that rankings ought to be the key admission criteria, simply that,for better or worse, they are. I'd wager that if you graduate in the toip 2% of a crappy 4th tier law school you will have a better , or at least equal, shot at entry to oxbriodge than if you graduate bottom-middle of the pack at a top tier school.
I agree there are unfair and subjective draw - backs to the class ranking formula. My point, however, is not that rankings ought to be the key admission criteria, simply that,for better or worse, they are. I'd wager that if you graduate in the toip 2% of a crappy 4th tier law school you will have a better , or at least equal, shot at entry to oxbriodge than if you graduate bottom-middle of the pack at a top tier school.
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Leanne
Thank you all.

A question about the ranking: do your universities give you the statistics of the exam results? e.g. top, average, median etc.?

If not, how do you go about ascertaining your ranking? Because for some obscure reason of its own my university treats ranking as "classified information". I can only guess that I am in the top 10% but I don't know whether I am in the top 5% or not.
Thank you all.

A question about the ranking: do your universities give you the statistics of the exam results? e.g. top, average, median etc.?

If not, how do you go about ascertaining your ranking? Because for some obscure reason of its own my university treats ranking as "classified information". I can only guess that I am in the top 10% but I don't know whether I am in the top 5% or not.
quote
ja83
Hi,

Im about to commence my final year in my uni in the UK. I wanna apply for the BCL/LLM at Oxbridge for the 2009-2010 academic year and was wondering whether I would be rejected on the basis that I do not hold a 70% or above average? At the moment, Im holding a 69.83 % average (its just a few decimals!!)
thanks,
Hi,

Im about to commence my final year in my uni in the UK. I wanna apply for the BCL/LLM at Oxbridge for the 2009-2010 academic year and was wondering whether I would be rejected on the basis that I do not hold a 70% or above average? At the moment, Im holding a 69.83 % average (its just a few decimals!!)
thanks,
quote
P_Martini
If not, how do you go about ascertaining your ranking? Because for some obscure reason of its own my university treats ranking as "classified information". I can only guess that I am in the top 10% but I don't know whether I am in the top 5% or not.


Most North American law schools either will disclose your overall ranking to you as a matter of procedure, or it will be available to you by special request. If you strike out there . . . .

You should be able to find entry requirements on each university's website. LSE's is here: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/studentRecruitment/country/Default.htm. Generally, I have to suspect, because of the variability between competition in schools, admissions directors will use these equivalence standards to make determinations. Somehow quantifying the level of competition between e.g., Harvard and Boston University is too labour-intensive and subjective. You can't get that specific in your admissions and still do an efficient job of it. As a result, I have to disagree that class rank will be the determinative factor. I have to think your average compared to the minimum required from universities in your country will be used.

Having said that, there is popular opinion as to what is required to gain admission at certain universities, and it is quite effective to use class rank to describe the calibre of candidate generally successful at Oxbridge or other programmes.
<blockquote>If not, how do you go about ascertaining your ranking? Because for some obscure reason of its own my university treats ranking as "classified information". I can only guess that I am in the top 10% but I don't know whether I am in the top 5% or not.</blockquote>

Most North American law schools either will disclose your overall ranking to you as a matter of procedure, or it will be available to you by special request. If you strike out there . . . .

You should be able to find entry requirements on each university's website. LSE's is here: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/studentRecruitment/country/Default.htm. Generally, I have to suspect, because of the variability between competition in schools, admissions directors will use these equivalence standards to make determinations. Somehow quantifying the level of competition between e.g., Harvard and Boston University is too labour-intensive and subjective. You can't get that specific in your admissions and still do an efficient job of it. As a result, I have to disagree that class rank will be the determinative factor. I have to think your average compared to the minimum required from universities in your country will be used.

Having said that, there is popular opinion as to what is required to gain admission at certain universities, and it is quite effective to use class rank to describe the calibre of candidate generally successful at Oxbridge or other programmes.
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S_Dimelow
Ultimately I would have to say that the final point is that a first is not a definite route into Oxbridge. I don't know for sure but would think that at least 95% of the applicants for their programs have a first and, considering they only accept 30% of UK applicants, that leaves a lot of people with great grades but no place. What can you take from this? If you want to apply, it's worth a shot, but give yourself a back up plan!
Ultimately I would have to say that the final point is that a first is not a definite route into Oxbridge. I don't know for sure but would think that at least 95% of the applicants for their programs have a first and, considering they only accept 30% of UK applicants, that leaves a lot of people with great grades but no place. What can you take from this? If you want to apply, it's worth a shot, but give yourself a back up plan!
quote

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