Edinburgh v. Queen Mary International Law


xelwnak
Hi everybody!

I've got offers from Edi and QMUL- interested in doing an LLM in (Public) International Law. To be honest, I'm leaning towards Edi due to (a) overall reputation of the university (Queen Mary is said to be UCL and KCL 's shadow) and (b) general costs of living/tuition, also with relation to the quality of education and/or reputation.

Any opinions?
Hi everybody!

I've got offers from Edi and QMUL- interested in doing an LLM in (Public) International Law. To be honest, I'm leaning towards Edi due to (a) overall reputation of the university (Queen Mary is said to be UCL and KCL 's shadow) and (b) general costs of living/tuition, also with relation to the quality of education and/or reputation.

Any opinions?
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iron man
Hey.....well i dont think that QMUL is merely a shadow of UCL and KCL. You can't compare a college of University of London witn Edinburgh University. All five colleges of UOL have great reputation, especially for Law.

I'd go for QMUL for LLM in International Law.
Hey.....well i dont think that QMUL is merely a shadow of UCL and KCL. You can't compare a college of University of London witn Edinburgh University. All five colleges of UOL have great reputation, especially for Law.

I'd go for QMUL for LLM in International Law.
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xelwnak
hmmm... ok thank you iron man, I'll take that into consideration!
hmmm... ok thank you iron man, I'll take that into consideration!
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Queen Mary is unfortunately rather weak, though studying in IPL in Edinburgh isn't that great either.
Queen Mary is unfortunately rather weak, though studying in IPL in Edinburgh isn't that great either.
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LLMblogger
Congratulations on getting into two good universities!
I would definitely pick Edinburgh. If you think about it, the two schools' international reputation is almost the same (perhaps with Edinburgh being held in higher regard). However in Edinburgh you'll pay less rent and have a lot of fun, since Edinburgh is a great place to be a student. When choosing, it may also be worth finding out where the QMUL LLM is taught. If it is taught in QMUL's building in Lincoln's Inn Fields, you'll be in the centre of London, near LSE (which means you could attend their lectures etc), Covent Garden etc. If however, your lectures will be in Mile End...I can only say that Mile End is probably one of the least charming parts of London.
Good luck!
Congratulations on getting into two good universities!
I would definitely pick Edinburgh. If you think about it, the two schools' international reputation is almost the same (perhaps with Edinburgh being held in higher regard). However in Edinburgh you'll pay less rent and have a lot of fun, since Edinburgh is a great place to be a student. When choosing, it may also be worth finding out where the QMUL LLM is taught. If it is taught in QMUL's building in Lincoln's Inn Fields, you'll be in the centre of London, near LSE (which means you could attend their lectures etc), Covent Garden etc. If however, your lectures will be in Mile End...I can only say that Mile End is probably one of the least charming parts of London.
Good luck!
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xelwnak
I have the impression that QMUL's LLM is taught in Lincoln's Inn... May I ask if you're an Edinburgh graduate, LLMblogger?
I have the impression that QMUL's LLM is taught in Lincoln's Inn... May I ask if you're an Edinburgh graduate, LLMblogger?
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xelwnak
Ah... one last thing! How about their academics? Does anyone know if either of the schools has any leading experts on a certain field of public international law?
Ah... one last thing! How about their academics? Does anyone know if either of the schools has any leading experts on a certain field of public international law?
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LLMblogger
Actually no! I studied in London. Sadly, I don't know anything about the schools' academics.
Actually no! I studied in London. Sadly, I don't know anything about the schools' academics.
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beicon
About where classes are held, I was pissing about on the net the other day when I came across a sample sheet for QM's LLM classes(http://www.law.qmul.ac.uk/postgraduate/llm/LLM_timetable_2009.pdf).

Many lectures happen on the Lincoln's Campus, but there're others that are held on the Mile End campus, at Senate House, at the IALS... I gather because QM is part of UoL, teaching may actually happen anywhere...
About where classes are held, I was pissing about on the net the other day when I came across a sample sheet for QM's LLM classes(http://www.law.qmul.ac.uk/postgraduate/llm/LLM_timetable_2009.pdf).

Many lectures happen on the Lincoln's Campus, but there're others that are held on the Mile End campus, at Senate House, at the IALS... I gather because QM is part of UoL, teaching may actually happen anywhere...
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pwalter
Hey, I'm current doing an LLM in Public International Law at QMUL so maybe I can give you some personal insight.

It all depends what classes within the are that you're thinking of as well. I can tell you right now that my impression here is that anything in human rights or environmental law is rather marginalised - they don't seem to care much about these fields. But if you're thinking of concentrating on IP, trade, economics, corporate and commercial, these modules seem to be their strong point.

My advice is think about which route within the PIL area you're thinking of going down and look at the class descriptions on the QM website yourself. And compare with the Edinburgh website of course.
Hey, I'm current doing an LLM in Public International Law at QMUL so maybe I can give you some personal insight.

It all depends what classes within the are that you're thinking of as well. I can tell you right now that my impression here is that anything in human rights or environmental law is rather marginalised - they don't seem to care much about these fields. But if you're thinking of concentrating on IP, trade, economics, corporate and commercial, these modules seem to be their strong point.

My advice is think about which route within the PIL area you're thinking of going down and look at the class descriptions on the QM website yourself. And compare with the Edinburgh website of course.
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N_k_S
As a former student of the QM LLM program I would just like to say that 1st of all I take exception to the remark that QM is in any kind of shadow what so ever...it is a damn good LLM program and the academics are highly regarded the world over....very famous and very into their respective professions...one only needs to mention the names of Loukas Mistelis, or Julian Lew or Chris Reed...I had an excellent experience and intend to return for my PHD. Secondly, as regards LLMBloggers post..theoretically you can attend LSE's lectures...but I assure you, you won't have the time to...it will be a handfull managing your own...also the courses are not all held at lincon's inn fields..some are held at charterhouse square...and some at IALS lecture theater...lecturers of the UOL LLM courses overlap...when I was there, Stavros was teaching international commercial litigation for both QMUL and KCL...and KCL, UCL and QM were being taught trademarks in a joint class...also..Mile End may not exactly be Fleet Street...but it is not as bad as LLMblogger seems to think :)...pretty enjoyable in its own right as a place to stay...and less expensive then central London...but yes I will give you an unbiased opinion and state that QM's strength is in commercial laws...more so in International Arbitration, IP and competition laws
As a former student of the QM LLM program I would just like to say that 1st of all I take exception to the remark that QM is in any kind of shadow what so ever...it is a damn good LLM program and the academics are highly regarded the world over....very famous and very into their respective professions...one only needs to mention the names of Loukas Mistelis, or Julian Lew or Chris Reed...I had an excellent experience and intend to return for my PHD. Secondly, as regards LLMBloggers post..theoretically you can attend LSE's lectures...but I assure you, you won't have the time to...it will be a handfull managing your own...also the courses are not all held at lincon's inn fields..some are held at charterhouse square...and some at IALS lecture theater...lecturers of the UOL LLM courses overlap...when I was there, Stavros was teaching international commercial litigation for both QMUL and KCL...and KCL, UCL and QM were being taught trademarks in a joint class...also..Mile End may not exactly be Fleet Street...but it is not as bad as LLMblogger seems to think :)...pretty enjoyable in its own right as a place to stay...and less expensive then central London...but yes I will give you an unbiased opinion and state that QM's strength is in commercial laws...more so in International Arbitration, IP and competition laws
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xelwnak
Special thanks to the two QMUL former/current students- your testimony has been tremendously insightful! And of course many thanks to everybody for taking the time to share their thoughts!:)
Special thanks to the two QMUL former/current students- your testimony has been tremendously insightful! And of course many thanks to everybody for taking the time to share their thoughts!:)
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PLS17
Hello,

As a former LLM student at Edinburgh, I can provide some insights into the International Law programme, bearing in mind that QMUL is a centre of excellence in legal research renowned the world over.

QMUL is not a shadow of any other UoL college!, and whoever says so knows nothing about the its research output in the field.

Edinburgh University has been teaching the subject since 1707, and its international law programme is particularly distinguishable by the fact that the faculty has two leading international lawyers who teach almost exclusively on the LLM programme. The Edinburgh LLM is independent of the LLB programme, unlike many UK universities where classes are sometimes if not always shared with final year LLB students.

Professor Alan Boyle, one of the worlds most sought-after environmental lawyers, was previously at QMUL and is now teaching in Edinburgh since 1995. He runs a course in international law, which is by far one of the most interesting and informative courses at the Universitys School of Law (if not the UK). He is co-author (with Prof Chinkin of LSE) of (The Making of International Law), one of the major studies to appear in recent years. Also, he is a practicing international lawyer appearing before the ICJ, PCA, and ITLOS (not many academics in the UK can claim such privilege). His counterparts in the UK are said to be Professor Lowe (of Oxford), Professor Crawford (of Cambridge), and Professor Philippe Sands (of UCL) all four are active in research as well as in practice in public international law. The late Professor Brownlie was part of this elite group of UK academics until his death earlier this year.

Professor Bill Gilmore, a leading international criminal lawyer with expertise in all sorts of international crimes. He is active in research and enjoys an extensive expertise in the field as a consultant to many states and international organisations.

There are other academics, e.g. Dr Stephen Neff who is a specialist in the history of international law.

I am currently a doctoral student at UCL and know from speaking to QMUL academics and PhD students how excellent the research and reputation of Queen Mary is. My advice would be, stop looking at rankings, and think about the courses and [who] is teaching. If I were to study international law for a career in a commercial firm, perhaps QMUL has more to offer me. A tuition in international law for a career in an NGO, international organisation, or government is by far better in Edinburgh.

Best of Luck!
Hello,

As a former LLM student at Edinburgh, I can provide some insights into the International Law programme, bearing in mind that QMUL is a centre of excellence in legal research renowned the world over.

QMUL is not a shadow of any other UoL college!, and whoever says so knows nothing about the its research output in the field.

Edinburgh University has been teaching the subject since 1707, and its international law programme is particularly distinguishable by the fact that the faculty has two leading international lawyers who teach almost exclusively on the LLM programme. The Edinburgh LLM is independent of the LLB programme, unlike many UK universities where classes are sometimes if not always shared with final year LLB students.

Professor Alan Boyle, one of the world’s most sought-after environmental lawyers, was previously at QMUL and is now teaching in Edinburgh since 1995. He runs a course in international law, which is by far one of the most interesting and informative courses at the University’s School of Law (if not the UK). He is co-author (with Prof Chinkin of LSE) of (The Making of International Law), one of the major studies to appear in recent years. Also, he is a practicing international lawyer appearing before the ICJ, PCA, and ITLOS (not many academics in the UK can claim such privilege). His counterparts in the UK are said to be Professor Lowe (of Oxford), Professor Crawford (of Cambridge), and Professor Philippe Sands (of UCL) – all four are active in research as well as in practice in public international law. The late Professor Brownlie was part of this elite group of UK academics until his death earlier this year.

Professor Bill Gilmore, a leading international criminal lawyer with expertise in all sorts of international crimes. He is active in research and enjoys an extensive expertise in the field as a consultant to many states and international organisations.

There are other academics, e.g. Dr Stephen Neff who is a specialist in the history of international law.

I am currently a doctoral student at UCL and know from speaking to QMUL academics and PhD students how excellent the research and reputation of Queen Mary is. My advice would be, stop looking at rankings, and think about the courses and [who] is teaching. If I were to study international law for a career in a commercial firm, perhaps QMUL has more to offer me. A tuition in international law for a career in an NGO, international organisation, or government is by far better in Edinburgh.

Best of Luck!
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xelwnak
thank you pls17 for adding a different and indisputably useful note to this thread! all the best with your research!
thank you pls17 for adding a different and indisputably useful note to this thread! all the best with your research!
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Summer68
At Queen Mary you should avoid taking lectures with David Ong. He is apparently very nice and helpful, but the reality is..., but you realize it only when it is too late.
At Queen Mary you should avoid taking lectures with David Ong. He is apparently very nice and helpful, but the reality is..., but you realize it only when it is too late.
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Hello Summer,

I was confused a while ago abowt where 2 doo my llm, I did in the end attend Queen Mary and completed my envrionmental law LLM there. I had have had classes with mr ONG and can support your claims. Mr Boyle is definitely the better option, i would warn any future queen mary students to stick to the international envr law programmes that are offered and avoid mr Ong at all costs.
Hello Summer,

I was confused a while ago abowt where 2 doo my llm, I did in the end attend Queen Mary and completed my envrionmental law LLM there. I had have had classes with mr ONG and can support your claims. Mr Boyle is definitely the better option, i would warn any future queen mary students to stick to the international envr law programmes that are offered and avoid mr Ong at all costs.
quote
winter6
I know this does really have anything to do with this topic but does anyone know if QM are still accepting applications? They said they would get back by the end of may. I e-mailed and got no response......i dont know what to do.
do they usually take this long? thanks
I know this does really have anything to do with this topic but does anyone know if QM are still accepting applications? They said they would get back by the end of may. I e-mailed and got no response......i dont know what to do.
do they usually take this long? thanks
quote
QM do take very long to process applications. The best thing you can do is call them as they did not inform me I had obtained a placed until i had called them, their admin is very slow. the best person to speak to is jenny perkins --

Jenny Perkins
Admissions Officer
Queen Mary, University of London
Mile End Road
London
E1 4NS
England

Tel: 020 7882 7462
Email: j.e.perkins@qmul.ac.uk
Fax: 020 7882 5588
QM do take very long to process applications. The best thing you can do is call them as they did not inform me I had obtained a placed until i had called them, their admin is very slow. the best person to speak to is jenny perkins --

Jenny Perkins
Admissions Officer
Queen Mary, University of London
Mile End Road
London
E1 4NS
England

Tel: 020 7882 7462
Email: j.e.perkins@qmul.ac.uk
Fax: 020 7882 5588
quote
I can second the quality of the Edi LLM. Boyle, Gilmore, Tierney and Neff have all published extensively in their specific areas. Gilmore is very active in projects outwith the uni as he often represents the Commonwealth and advises the EU. He is also a fantastically friendly and helpful person. Boyle is currently working on UN project regarding a declaration on the environment and human rights and he recently had great success at the ICJ with the Pulp Mills case. These external projects help provide great insight into the field and often great opportunities for students. I may be a bit biased as Boyle is also my supervisor but this means that I do know that he is quality when it comes to his performance here at Edinburgh and externally.
Additionally, there are other new/lesser known and promising lecturers on the courses that are also available in the fields of human rights, law of the sea, environmental law and climate change. (Mac Alhmaigh, Harrison, Morgera and Ghaleigh)
I did my LLM in Intl Law at Edinburgh and am currently finishing my PhD at Edi as well. I don't know anything about the other programme, personally, but have met some fantastic members of the faculty at various conferences.
Best of luck with your decision.
I can second the quality of the Edi LLM. Boyle, Gilmore, Tierney and Neff have all published extensively in their specific areas. Gilmore is very active in projects outwith the uni as he often represents the Commonwealth and advises the EU. He is also a fantastically friendly and helpful person. Boyle is currently working on UN project regarding a declaration on the environment and human rights and he recently had great success at the ICJ with the Pulp Mills case. These external projects help provide great insight into the field and often great opportunities for students. I may be a bit biased as Boyle is also my supervisor but this means that I do know that he is quality when it comes to his performance here at Edinburgh and externally.
Additionally, there are other new/lesser known and promising lecturers on the courses that are also available in the fields of human rights, law of the sea, environmental law and climate change. (Mac Alhmaigh, Harrison, Morgera and Ghaleigh)
I did my LLM in Intl Law at Edinburgh and am currently finishing my PhD at Edi as well. I don't know anything about the other programme, personally, but have met some fantastic members of the faculty at various conferences.
Best of luck with your decision.
quote

i would warn any future queen mary students to stick to the international envr law programmes that are offered and avoid mr Ong at all costs.


Could you please tell me the reason why?
[quote]
i would warn any future queen mary students to stick to the international envr law programmes that are offered and avoid mr Ong at all costs.[/quote]

Could you please tell me the reason why?
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