Do Oxbridge and other UK Law Schools accept applicants who already have an LL.M?


kkraemer

Hi,

I'm currently studying law in Louvain-la-Neuve , and I've always considered doing an LL.M in an English-speaking country, obviously looking at Oxford, Cambridge, King's College, UCL, LSE, Nottingham, etc. Before that, I wanted to finish my MA in LLN, and then do a "Master complémentaire" (in the Bologna system, some kind of a third year of Master, giving you second diploma) in Advanced European Law.

However, two days ago, I thought to myself, why not spend that sixth year (the year I actually wanted to do the Master complémentaire in LLN) in Germany (I'm perfectly fluent in German), so I can do a cheap LL.M there (for example in Heidelberg or Munich or Tübingen; I think it only costs about EUR 1,000 to do a 1-year-LL.M), such as Introduction to German Law, or even European Law, or whatnot (I'm planning on doing Business Law during my UK LL.M).

The problem is, do prestigious UK universities accept applicants who already have an LL.M diploma from another country? If not, I'd prefer to stay in Louvain for the whole six years, because I'd really prefer an English LL.M.

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

I'm currently studying law in Louvain-la-Neuve , and I've always considered doing an LL.M in an English-speaking country, obviously looking at Oxford, Cambridge, King's College, UCL, LSE, Nottingham, etc. Before that, I wanted to finish my MA in LLN, and then do a "Master complémentaire" (in the Bologna system, some kind of a third year of Master, giving you second diploma) in Advanced European Law.

However, two days ago, I thought to myself, why not spend that sixth year (the year I actually wanted to do the Master complémentaire in LLN) in Germany (I'm perfectly fluent in German), so I can do a cheap LL.M there (for example in Heidelberg or Munich or Tübingen; I think it only costs about EUR 1,000 to do a 1-year-LL.M), such as Introduction to German Law, or even European Law, or whatnot (I'm planning on doing Business Law during my UK LL.M).

The problem is, do prestigious UK universities accept applicants who already have an LL.M diploma from another country? If not, I'd prefer to stay in Louvain for the whole six years, because I'd really prefer an English LL.M.

Thanks in advance.
quote
Banking

Heidelberg has a fantastic reputation, if you get there (espefcially on the cheap) you do not need to worry about Oxbridge. You can get a job in the top firm in the UK where your knowledge of the German law will be an asset. You can get an even better (salary wise, quality of life wise and Tax wise) in Switzerland. Many Swiss firms can then sponsor you to study for 1 year in the US and get a NY bar exam. If Heidelberg makes you an offer run for it.
Also KCL has an agreement with one of the German uni (cannot remember which one). You can spend half a year there and half a year at KCL and get a dual LLM

Heidelberg has a fantastic reputation, if you get there (espefcially on the cheap) you do not need to worry about Oxbridge. You can get a job in the top firm in the UK where your knowledge of the German law will be an asset. You can get an even better (salary wise, quality of life wise and Tax wise) in Switzerland. Many Swiss firms can then sponsor you to study for 1 year in the US and get a NY bar exam. If Heidelberg makes you an offer run for it.
Also KCL has an agreement with one of the German uni (cannot remember which one). You can spend half a year there and half a year at KCL and get a dual LLM
quote
kkraemer

Thanks, but in Luxembourg (where I'm from and where I want to work), it's sort of necessary to have studied in a French-speaking civil law country (i.e. Luxembourg, Belgium or France) - I therefore hardly see myself being employed in the UK with little to no knowledge of the Common Law tradition. Moreover, since top law firms (such as Allen & Overy Luxembourg, where I have worked as a summer intern, and where I'd kinda like to work in the future) do most of their work in English, while having to respect the Luxembourg legal framework, such firms mostly see anglo-saxon LL.Ms as an advantage, not only because of the basic legal knowledge, but even more so due to the reason that such people, having spent a year in the UK or the US (where I'd like to study even
more, but probably won't be able to afford), have a better knowledge of the English language, being a top asset at A&OL.
The reason for my wanting to do the Master complémentaire or a German LL.M is rather personal interest, while obviously hoping for it to be a career-advantage (mostly so if it's a special Master in EU law, which is getting more important by the day), than really "needing" to do it.
So all I want to know is, will UK (or even US) universities accept applicants who already hold an LL.M diploma.

Thanks for your kind answer anyway.

Thanks, but in Luxembourg (where I'm from and where I want to work), it's sort of necessary to have studied in a French-speaking civil law country (i.e. Luxembourg, Belgium or France) - I therefore hardly see myself being employed in the UK with little to no knowledge of the Common Law tradition. Moreover, since top law firms (such as Allen & Overy Luxembourg, where I have worked as a summer intern, and where I'd kinda like to work in the future) do most of their work in English, while having to respect the Luxembourg legal framework, such firms mostly see anglo-saxon LL.Ms as an advantage, not only because of the basic legal knowledge, but even more so due to the reason that such people, having spent a year in the UK or the US (where I'd like to study even
more, but probably won't be able to afford), have a better knowledge of the English language, being a top asset at A&OL.
The reason for my wanting to do the Master complémentaire or a German LL.M is rather personal interest, while obviously hoping for it to be a career-advantage (mostly so if it's a special Master in EU law, which is getting more important by the day), than really "needing" to do it.
So all I want to know is, will UK (or even US) universities accept applicants who already hold an LL.M diploma.

Thanks for your kind answer anyway.
quote
TiGGer

I heard that Oxford doesn't accept people who already have a LLM for their MJur course, but that might be rumours. To be absolutely sure and get truly reliable information you should contact the relevant law schools directly (by email).

I heard that Oxford doesn't accept people who already have a LLM for their MJur course, but that might be rumours. To be absolutely sure and get truly reliable information you should contact the relevant law schools directly (by email).
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Banking

You should be accepted, in fact having another LLM in a different jurisdiction might serve to your advantage should you get good grades. Especially in KCL and UCL. HOWEVER, make sure that you state in your application that it had nothing to do with the English law and that your experience at A @ O (where you want to return) has lead you to this idea because you worked on cross-border transactions for English clients using Lux as an off shore jurisdiction. If you put thoughts innto your statement showing you know what you were talking about (and you seemed to be a clued up young lawyer) they will love you at Oxbridge...

You should be accepted, in fact having another LLM in a different jurisdiction might serve to your advantage should you get good grades. Especially in KCL and UCL. HOWEVER, make sure that you state in your application that it had nothing to do with the English law and that your experience at A @ O (where you want to return) has lead you to this idea because you worked on cross-border transactions for English clients using Lux as an off shore jurisdiction. If you put thoughts innto your statement showing you know what you were talking about (and you seemed to be a clued up young lawyer) they will love you at Oxbridge...
quote
kkraemer

Thank you very much.

What would you recommend to do, the Master complémentaire in Louvain in European Law (which, pretty much, seems to be an LL.M), or a German LL.M? I was thinking introduction to German Law, or maybe Corporate Restructuring (in Heidelberg, although hard to get in it seems), or something entirely different? Since I'm already planning to do a Business Law (in its broadest possible sense, I actually have no idea what courses are actually offered) LL.M in the UK, what would give me the most advantages?

Thank you very much.

What would you recommend to do, the Master complémentaire in Louvain in European Law (which, pretty much, seems to be an LL.M), or a German LL.M? I was thinking introduction to German Law, or maybe Corporate Restructuring (in Heidelberg, although hard to get in it seems), or something entirely different? Since I'm already planning to do a Business Law (in its broadest possible sense, I actually have no idea what courses are actually offered) LL.M in the UK, what would give me the most advantages?
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Cedric

"Cambridge does not normally offer a place on the LL.M. course to an applicant who already holds or is currently studying for an LL.M. from a UK institution. However, exceptions might be made in cases where applicants plan to use the Cambridge LL.M. to develop their studies in a different direction to their previous UK LL.M."

So, no problem.

grtz from Belgium ;)

"Cambridge does not normally offer a place on the LL.M. course to an applicant who already holds or is currently studying for an LL.M. from a UK institution. However, exceptions might be made in cases where applicants plan to use the Cambridge LL.M. to develop their studies in a different direction to their previous UK LL.M."

So, no problem.

grtz from Belgium ;)
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kkraemer

I am assuming that similar clauses also figure on other Universities' websites, but I'll contact some of my likely choices this afternoon.

Indeed, I've been told that you have to begin to plan the process of applying at the beginning of Master 1 (starting Bachelor 3 in 2 weeks, so I only have 1 year left). Anyway, I am planning on going to the Conseiller aux études to enquire about post-graduate studies in general when my Bachelor 3 exams are over, so I might get more details then.

I am assuming that similar clauses also figure on other Universities' websites, but I'll contact some of my likely choices this afternoon.

Indeed, I've been told that you have to begin to plan the process of applying at the beginning of Master 1 (starting Bachelor 3 in 2 weeks, so I only have 1 year left). Anyway, I am planning on going to the Conseiller aux études to enquire about post-graduate studies in general when my Bachelor 3 exams are over, so I might get more details then.
quote
Banking

Do a bit of German law, Heidelberg without a question. With good grades from your uni and Heidelberg I would recpmmend you to go for nothing less than Oxford, Cambridge and LSE. Your cross jurisdictional experience should be HUGE advantage. I actually suggest Cambridge because in Oxford you are likely to be put into MJur stream rather than BCL while in Cam all students do LLM. Even if you get to BCL you will struggle to explain to some senior lawyers in Lux as to why you are doing another batchelor of laws (oxford's name for LLM). They might think that Ox has asked you to repeat a year from your BA Law because of different legal systems

Do a bit of German law, Heidelberg without a question. With good grades from your uni and Heidelberg I would recpmmend you to go for nothing less than Oxford, Cambridge and LSE. Your cross jurisdictional experience should be HUGE advantage. I actually suggest Cambridge because in Oxford you are likely to be put into MJur stream rather than BCL while in Cam all students do LLM. Even if you get to BCL you will struggle to explain to some senior lawyers in Lux as to why you are doing another batchelor of laws (oxford's name for LLM). They might think that Ox has asked you to repeat a year from your BA Law because of different legal systems
quote
Banking

On modules-the most regarded by employers are (1) corporate tax and international tax law, (2) corporate recovery and banckrupcy law, (3) equity law (creation of funds and trusts)_which should be tge key module for you if you want to work in LUX

On modules-the most regarded by employers are (1) corporate tax and international tax law, (2) corporate recovery and banckrupcy law, (3) equity law (creation of funds and trusts)_which should be tge key module for you if you want to work in LUX
quote
kkraemer

OK, sounds good. I'd very much like to go to Heidelberg indeed, but I heard it's very hard to get in these days (acceptance rate of 5% or something - but that's probably for undergrads. Anyone happen to know what the rate for LL.M might be?), or so I heard. I placed second (or third, I'm not sure anymore) in my Bachelor 2 class, and I was awarded the "Grande distinction" for both Bachelor years. I obviously hope to maintain such results, but just as obviously will it get harder, mostly so in Master, because our class size will double, due to students coming from other, nearby universities which don't offer Master studies. I guess such results would be enough (if accompanied by professorial recommendation letters and a good essay) to be accepted at one school at least (I hope). A quick Google search [http://www.britishcouncil.org/brussels-learning-compare-belgian-to-uk-qualifications.htm] tells me that that's equivalent to First class honours (but actually that's just undergrad info). Does one absolutely have to have First class honours for an LL.M at Oxbridge & Co., or are high Second class first division degrees accepted from time to time?

Also, what other German Universities are advisable? What about Swiss or Austrian Universites?

I think that I'll write e-mails to the Times Top 10 UK Law Schools in order to enquire about admission to people who already have an LL.M.

Thanks all.

EDIT: At A&O, I worked in the Corporate department, and I liked it very much. Next year (if they take me on again), I might opt for Corporate Finance, to see what that's all about.

OK, sounds good. I'd very much like to go to Heidelberg indeed, but I heard it's very hard to get in these days (acceptance rate of 5% or something - but that's probably for undergrads. Anyone happen to know what the rate for LL.M might be?), or so I heard. I placed second (or third, I'm not sure anymore) in my Bachelor 2 class, and I was awarded the "Grande distinction" for both Bachelor years. I obviously hope to maintain such results, but just as obviously will it get harder, mostly so in Master, because our class size will double, due to students coming from other, nearby universities which don't offer Master studies. I guess such results would be enough (if accompanied by professorial recommendation letters and a good essay) to be accepted at one school at least (I hope). A quick Google search [http://www.britishcouncil.org/brussels-learning-compare-belgian-to-uk-qualifications.htm] tells me that that's equivalent to First class honours (but actually that's just undergrad info). Does one absolutely have to have First class honours for an LL.M at Oxbridge & Co., or are high Second class first division degrees accepted from time to time?

Also, what other German Universities are advisable? What about Swiss or Austrian Universites?

I think that I'll write e-mails to the Times Top 10 UK Law Schools in order to enquire about admission to people who already have an LL.M.

Thanks all.

EDIT: At A&O, I worked in the Corporate department, and I liked it very much. Next year (if they take me on again), I might opt for Corporate Finance, to see what that's all about.
quote
Banking

General corporate finance module is good as a cornerstone. I think upper second degree in a top european uni (but only the top one!) should be acceptible. On name of European unis, Heldelberg is a special case, otherwise main european uni should be good. I suggest you consider switzerland before austia. Also sweden is ghood (stockholm). Austrian experience will not add you anything in terms of additional knowledge, switzerland will do. Switzerland is the location of family offices of ultra high rich people and the place they set up their ventures from, with places like BVI being tje next step. It is also the place where many pe firms are based, hence, the activity is there. As for Stockholm, thatks where a lot of corporate finance arbitration work takes places. Great place to study international dispute resolution. Switzerland is one of the best places for equity law

General corporate finance module is good as a cornerstone. I think upper second degree in a top european uni (but only the top one!) should be acceptible. On name of European unis, Heldelberg is a special case, otherwise main european uni should be good. I suggest you consider switzerland before austia. Also sweden is ghood (stockholm). Austrian experience will not add you anything in terms of additional knowledge, switzerland will do. Switzerland is the location of family offices of ultra high rich people and the place they set up their ventures from, with places like BVI being tje next step. It is also the place where many pe firms are based, hence, the activity is there. As for Stockholm, thatks where a lot of corporate finance arbitration work takes places. Great place to study international dispute resolution. Switzerland is one of the best places for equity law
quote
Drozd

I actually suggest Cambridge because in Oxford you are likely to be put into MJur stream rather than BCL while in Cam all students do LLM.


Sorry but this misunderstands the Oxford system.

There are no "streams". Everyone sits in the same classrooms, doing the same reading and being taught by the same teachers - but if u r from a civil law bkgrnd you get an MJur, if u r from a common law bkgrnd you get the BCL.

The only exception is that MJurs can dabble by doing 1 subject from the Oxford regular [undergrad] law degree, which BCLs cannot because they assumption is that they did those subjects or equivalent already at their home institutions.

Don't be put off Oxford by the silly nomenclature.

<blockquote>I actually suggest Cambridge because in Oxford you are likely to be put into MJur stream rather than BCL while in Cam all students do LLM. </blockquote>

Sorry but this misunderstands the Oxford system.

There are no "streams". Everyone sits in the same classrooms, doing the same reading and being taught by the same teachers - but if u r from a civil law bkgrnd you get an MJur, if u r from a common law bkgrnd you get the BCL.

The only exception is that MJurs can dabble by doing 1 subject from the Oxford regular [undergrad] law degree, which BCLs cannot because they assumption is that they did those subjects or equivalent already at their home institutions.

Don't be put off Oxford by the silly nomenclature.
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Banking

Drozd, you study there, you know the system but most people in senior positions studied elsewhere and have not got a clue. If you are in the UK, this is not a problem but if you are from abroad and already have an LLM, getting a second BCL can be confusing for future employers. I am just saying that Cambridge might be an "easier to explain" option for the girl...

Drozd, you study there, you know the system but most people in senior positions studied elsewhere and have not got a clue. If you are in the UK, this is not a problem but if you are from abroad and already have an LLM, getting a second BCL can be confusing for future employers. I am just saying that Cambridge might be an "easier to explain" option for the girl...
quote
kkraemer

[...]might be an "easier to explain" option for the girl...


Or the boy, actually ;)

<blockquote>[...]might be an "easier to explain" option for the girl...</blockquote>

Or the boy, actually ;)
quote
Banking

Sorry, though you were a girl..

Sorry, though you were a girl..
quote
Drozd

Indeed, u r right, it depends whether your priority is a top-quality degree or an easy-to-explain degree.

Indeed, u r right, it depends whether your priority is a top-quality degree or an easy-to-explain degree.

quote
Banking

Cambridge is equal to Oxford in the eyers of Human resources. Cambridge has a slightly higher repuytation as far as investment banking and pe are concerned as students from there are perceived to be more numerate and analytical. Guess because Cambridge is traditionally stronger in science. As far as the bar and the courts go Oxford is preferred. However, the less you have to explain to human resources about your course name the better. These people prefer to have everything standard and easy to understand. I have already encountered the explanation problem in PE-people thought that I wanted to do law but was not admitted on to LLM, hence, BCL (which has a bachelor name)

Cambridge is equal to Oxford in the eyers of Human resources. Cambridge has a slightly higher repuytation as far as investment banking and pe are concerned as students from there are perceived to be more numerate and analytical. Guess because Cambridge is traditionally stronger in science. As far as the bar and the courts go Oxford is preferred. However, the less you have to explain to human resources about your course name the better. These people prefer to have everything standard and easy to understand. I have already encountered the explanation problem in PE-people thought that I wanted to do law but was not admitted on to LLM, hence, BCL (which has a bachelor name)
quote
kkraemer

I see. So, if I'll ever be in the dreadful situation of having to choose between Oxford and Cambridge, I'll know what to do ;)

I see. So, if I'll ever be in the dreadful situation of having to choose between Oxford and Cambridge, I'll know what to do ;)
quote

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