City Increase Number of LLM Places by 20


dralanrile...

We've just carried out a review of the number and quality of applications coming through the door and have taken the decision to increase the number of places by 20.

Note also the final deadline for applications is Monday 28th September 2009.

Press release below
AR

LLM places increased by 20 for 2009/10 in-take

LLM Programme Director Professor Alan Riley confirms that due to an increased flow of high quality LLM applications The City Law School has decided to increase the number of LLM places available by 20 for September 2009. The final deadline for acceptance of LLM applications for September 2009 entry will be Monday 28th September 2009.

Professor Alan Riley said we are increasing the number of places this year because we are still receiving a significant number of very good quality applications. Given the impressive nature of some of the applications we are receiving we would like to put ourselves in a position that we could take them on to the LLM Programme. That is why I approached the Dean of the Law School, Professor Susan Nash, to obtain permission to increase the numbers and ensure we had the resources in place for those extra students.

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/72157619957092800/show/with/3641325166/

We've just carried out a review of the number and quality of applications coming through the door and have taken the decision to increase the number of places by 20.

Note also the final deadline for applications is Monday 28th September 2009.

Press release below
AR

LLM places increased by 20 for 2009/10 in-take

LLM Programme Director Professor Alan Riley confirms that due to an increased flow of high quality LLM applications The City Law School has decided to increase the number of LLM places available by 20 for September 2009. The final deadline for acceptance of LLM applications for September 2009 entry will be Monday 28th September 2009.

Professor Alan Riley said “we are increasing the number of places this year because we are still receiving a significant number of very good quality applications. Given the impressive nature of some of the applications we are receiving we would like to put ourselves in a position that we could take them on to the LLM Programme. That is why I approached the Dean of the Law School, Professor Susan Nash, to obtain permission to increase the numbers and ensure we had the resources in place for those extra students”.

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/72157619957092800/show/with/3641325166/
quote
john gale

This smacks of an insufficient number of good applications. An increase in numbers by 20 at this late date is out of step with all serious universities in the UK, which are actually closing their application processes because they are oversubscribed.

You did this last year too. 'CIty' should engage in some serious scholarship, instead of stunts like this.

This smacks of an insufficient number of good applications. An increase in numbers by 20 at this late date is out of step with all serious universities in the UK, which are actually closing their application processes because they are oversubscribed.

You did this last year too. 'CIty' should engage in some serious scholarship, instead of stunts like this.
quote
The_Nagle

I disagree that this smacks of an insufficent number of good applications. If that was the case then City would merely extend the time period in which they accepted applications, not increase the number of places available.

You have provided the rational by stating that UK universities are oversubscribed (mostly likely due to Global Financial Crisis as reported in many news sources), and so why would the situation be any different at City. In my view City are merely taking advantage of this oversubscription which as a business (and let's face it, universities are businesses) is good business.

I disagree that this smacks of an insufficent number of good applications. If that was the case then City would merely extend the time period in which they accepted applications, not increase the number of places available.

You have provided the rational by stating that UK universities are oversubscribed (mostly likely due to Global Financial Crisis as reported in many news sources), and so why would the situation be any different at City. In my view City are merely taking advantage of this oversubscription which as a business (and let's face it, universities are businesses) is good business.
quote
john gale

Check the historical postings for 'City'. This is not response to this year's financial situation.

Check the historical postings for 'City'. This is not response to this year's financial situation.

quote
The_Nagle

I have reviewed the previous posts. In 2007, City increased the number of places in their International Commercial Law LLM programme and reasoned, amongst other things, that they had employed new staff members and were seeking to develop that area of their LLM programe. The distinction must be made with this current increase which appears to apply to the LLM generally.

In any event, I have no vested interest in City. I do not attend City and I am not a staff member there. I will be attending Oxford come September 2009. I just wanted to respond to what I thought was an ill conceived criticism of Dr Riley's post. But I'm sure he doesnt need me to do that.

I have reviewed the previous posts. In 2007, City increased the number of places in their International Commercial Law LLM programme and reasoned, amongst other things, that they had employed new staff members and were seeking to develop that area of their LLM programe. The distinction must be made with this current increase which appears to apply to the LLM generally.

In any event, I have no vested interest in City. I do not attend City and I am not a staff member there. I will be attending Oxford come September 2009. I just wanted to respond to what I thought was an ill conceived criticism of Dr Riley's post. But I'm sure he doesnt need me to do that.
quote
CR1

I have to agree with The_Nagle. I think the criticism is not valid and City's effort with regards to LLM students is significant.

I have to agree with The_Nagle. I think the criticism is not valid and City's effort with regards to LLM students is significant.
quote
john gale

The announcement says that because of the number of good quality applicants that they are increasing places by 20.

OK. Then why not accept all these good applicants and close the process? If they 'are receiving' so many already, is that not the correct response? Or, I might have expected them to say that because they are getting so many good applications that you must get yours in within a few weeks (or whatever).'

But that is not what this is about.

This is a CALL for applications. This just does not make sense, unless they are under-subscribed.

Someone said this increase in numbers must be true or they would simply put back the closing date to fill places. The closing date is already as late as possible: it's the first day of term (September 28th). If so many applications are flooding in you move the date up, not back to the last possible moment...

And, how will they accommodate this increase at this late date?

City offers four HALF courses on the LLM, plus you do a dissertation. All other London universities offer four FULL courses (or the equivalent in half courses) plus a dissertation.

City already gives just half the teaching time of the LSE, Kings, UCL, Queen Mary or SOAS.

What else could they cut?

The announcement says that because of the number of good quality applicants that they are increasing places by 20.

OK. Then why not accept all these good applicants and close the process? If they 'are receiving' so many already, is that not the correct response? Or, I might have expected them to say that because they are getting so many good applications that you must get yours in within a few weeks (or whatever).'

But that is not what this is about.

This is a CALL for applications. This just does not make sense, unless they are under-subscribed.

Someone said this increase in numbers must be true or they would simply put back the closing date to fill places. The closing date is already as late as possible: it's the first day of term (September 28th). If so many applications are flooding in you move the date up, not back to the last possible moment...

And, how will they accommodate this increase at this late date?

City offers four HALF courses on the LLM, plus you do a dissertation. All other London universities offer four FULL courses (or the equivalent in half courses) plus a dissertation.

City already gives just half the teaching time of the LSE, Kings, UCL, Queen Mary or SOAS.

What else could they cut?

quote
dralanrile...

Dear John and the other commentators,

I was interested to read all your comments. There is a degree of misunderstand apparent from the comments which probably comes from the bald nature of the press release. There is really a limit to what I can say in such a document and that perhaps gives rise to some of the concerns expressed above.

Some context I think is appropriate here. Of course LSE, Kings, UCL and Co. who have been running LLM programmes in International Commercial Law for a long time have very short application deadlines. This is in large part because compared with the number of applications they have a very limited intake.

The City LLM International Commercial Law programme will only enter into its fourth year of existence in September. I take a very prudent and conservative approach to growing the programme. Hence every year about this time I look at the flow and quality of applications and consider on the basis of those applications and our available resources the extent to which we can realistically increase numbers, ensure quality of intake and maintain a very positive experience for our students. This does not seem an unreasonable basis on which to operate.

The long final application date of Monday 28th September is in fact the consequence of foreign university examination results, not something I would expect any of the commentators above to be aware of. Essentially there are a number of jurisidictions and particular institutions who only provide examination results as late as end July and early August. Professors tend to have left by then and references are difficulty to obtain. Hence having a long date for applications for end September allows good quality students who not otherwise be able to attend an LLM course in London in this coming academic year to do so. Again I don't think is an entirely unreasonable approach to take.

Finally, on our supposed half courses. I do not think the overwhelming majority of my LLM students would agree with you as to the work burden they are under. For example, I run the only International Cartels course in Europe. I recommend to all my students that they should ensure they have a very large inbox for the deluge of pdfs I will be sending them, in addition to seminars, we have a mock criminal cartel trial, price-fixing sessions, work-study groups, a mid-sessional and the assessed 6000 word essay. It may be delivered in a different way to some other institutions but it is a very full workload.

with best regards
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199

Dear John and the other commentators,

I was interested to read all your comments. There is a degree of misunderstand apparent from the comments which probably comes from the bald nature of the press release. There is really a limit to what I can say in such a document and that perhaps gives rise to some of the concerns expressed above.

Some context I think is appropriate here. Of course LSE, Kings, UCL and Co. who have been running LLM programmes in International Commercial Law for a long time have very short application deadlines. This is in large part because compared with the number of applications they have a very limited intake.

The City LLM International Commercial Law programme will only enter into its fourth year of existence in September. I take a very prudent and conservative approach to growing the programme. Hence every year about this time I look at the flow and quality of applications and consider on the basis of those applications and our available resources the extent to which we can realistically increase numbers, ensure quality of intake and maintain a very positive experience for our students. This does not seem an unreasonable basis on which to operate.

The long final application date of Monday 28th September is in fact the consequence of foreign university examination results, not something I would expect any of the commentators above to be aware of. Essentially there are a number of jurisidictions and particular institutions who only provide examination results as late as end July and early August. Professors tend to have left by then and references are difficulty to obtain. Hence having a long date for applications for end September allows good quality students who not otherwise be able to attend an LLM course in London in this coming academic year to do so. Again I don't think is an entirely unreasonable approach to take.

Finally, on our supposed half courses. I do not think the overwhelming majority of my LLM students would agree with you as to the work burden they are under. For example, I run the only International Cartels course in Europe. I recommend to all my students that they should ensure they have a very large inbox for the deluge of pdfs I will be sending them, in addition to seminars, we have a mock criminal cartel trial, price-fixing sessions, work-study groups, a mid-sessional and the assessed 6000 word essay. It may be delivered in a different way to some other institutions but it is a very full workload.

with best regards
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199…
quote

I agree with John Gale that it is a desperate call from City University to attract more applications most probably because thay do have not received as many as they want to. I find it unethical to use a discussion board, which is designed for students and only for students to exchange their opinions, to be used by professors from universities as means of advertisment.

I agree with John Gale that it is a desperate call from City University to attract more applications most probably because thay do have not received as many as they want to. I find it unethical to use a discussion board, which is designed for students and only for students to exchange their opinions, to be used by professors from universities as means of advertisment.
quote
The_Nagle

"What is LLM GUIDE and how can it help me?
LLM GUIDE aims to provide the most comprehensive and up-to-date guide of Master of Laws (LL.M.) programs available on the internet. LLM GUIDE also publishes original content that we think will be of interest to prospective LL.M. students.

Finally, our website provides a forum where people can ask questions, discuss, and exchange information about topics related to LL.M. programs in a positive environment.

Please note that apart from the content available on the website, the LLM GUIDE staff are unable to provide advice or guidance about LL.M. programs."

First, nowhere can I see that this forum is only for students (if you can direct me to where it says this forum is only for students then I apologise).

Second - advertising? Look around the website, it is full of advertisements from various universities from around the world advertising their various LLM programs.

"What is LLM GUIDE and how can it help me?
LLM GUIDE aims to provide the most comprehensive and up-to-date guide of Master of Laws (LL.M.) programs available on the internet. LLM GUIDE also publishes original content that we think will be of interest to prospective LL.M. students.

Finally, our website provides a forum where people can ask questions, discuss, and exchange information about topics related to LL.M. programs in a positive environment.

Please note that apart from the content available on the website, the LLM GUIDE staff are unable to provide advice or guidance about LL.M. programs."

First, nowhere can I see that this forum is only for students (if you can direct me to where it says this forum is only for students then I apologise).

Second - advertising? Look around the website, it is full of advertisements from various universities from around the world advertising their various LLM programs.

quote
dralanrile...

Dear MontrealDennis,
I am rather surprised by your comments.

In the first place there is no restriction on academics posting on the bulletin boards.

Secondly, do you really want academic's not to post? A lot of the queries on here are in fact best answered by academics and not students. If you check through my posts on you will notice that a lot of time what I am doing is providing advice to LLM students which has nothing to do with my own institution. Do you really want me to stop doing that?

Third, it is not unreasonable to indicate what courses or developments are taking place on my own LLM programme as that programme develops.

As to City's Monday 28th September date for closing applications I have already explained above why we have adopted the policy of a late closing date and will not repeat myself.

Finally, don't you think on reflection 'unethical' is a bit strong given that (a) there is no restriction on such posting (b) many of the posts provide general advice of value to students (c) all posting is transparent ie my full name, address and email details are given so students know that it is an academic posting?

yours sincerely
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199

Dear MontrealDennis,
I am rather surprised by your comments.

In the first place there is no restriction on academics posting on the bulletin boards.

Secondly, do you really want academic's not to post? A lot of the queries on here are in fact best answered by academics and not students. If you check through my posts on you will notice that a lot of time what I am doing is providing advice to LLM students which has nothing to do with my own institution. Do you really want me to stop doing that?

Third, it is not unreasonable to indicate what courses or developments are taking place on my own LLM programme as that programme develops.

As to City's Monday 28th September date for closing applications I have already explained above why we have adopted the policy of a late closing date and will not repeat myself.

Finally, don't you think on reflection 'unethical' is a bit strong given that (a) there is no restriction on such posting (b) many of the posts provide general advice of value to students (c) all posting is transparent ie my full name, address and email details are given so students know that it is an academic posting?

yours sincerely
alan riley

Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/721576199……
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