I am a US JD and am having trouble finding a ranking system of universities in London. I would like to get an LLM and do not know which schools have the most prestigious programs, etc. Any advice would be most appreciated. Also, does anyone know the estimated cost of these programs. I realize that it will vary depending on the university but if someone is aware of a range I would appreciate that information as well. Thanks in advance!

Although we have rankings in the UK, they are not quite as well developed as I believe in the US. When you look into rankings thoroughly in the UK, more often than not you will hear of a single UK HE establishment with a specialise in a particular area or areas, rather than a lead in all subjects (the latter being the way our existing ranking systems order our schools). Often students will seek out particular tutors, regardless of which institution they work at, because the tutor is so highly regarded. Do you have any UK authors who you particularly rate? What's the area of legal study you intend to look for?

UK LL.M costs will range from 5,000 GBP to 12,000 GBP for an international student. That's only an approximation based on last years fees, and accounts for the rise in fees expected each year.

Also, why London? Have you thought that your search for the most prestigious programmes might take you beyond London? Oxford, Cambridge, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and many others will likely have the academics or centres of excellence representing the best in UK for their subject areas.

I am interested mostly in programs in either Intellectual Property or Human Rights. (I realize they are very different but am struggling with which avenue I wish to pursue). I am somewhat limited to London because I can work part-time out of my firm's London office to take some of the sting out of the costs of the program. We don't have any other offices throughout England thus, London is the most feasible option.

I might be somewhat biased going to KCL myself, but why don't you have a look at their programme? They offer courses on IP Law that sound quite interesting, and they also have some human rights law courses. In addition, there's always the opportunity to take two courses from other University of London colleges (i.e. UCL, QM, SOAS).

If you're interested in IP, which area of IP particularly?

Have you considered the option of distance learning? If IP is your area of interest you could check out The University of Edinburgh's LL.M.

If you were keen to remain on-campus in London then I know that Queen Mary Intellectual Property Research Institute (http://www.qmipri.org) also has a very popular, and well resourced programme, though it tends to shy away from the technical side of IP. KCL might be better for more techy stuff. If you were interested in developing the human rights/IP route then Birkbeck might be the option, it does well in the REA (research) and got 5a. And although the IP programme may not necessarily be the best, the London School of Economics always has a good name attached.

There's a good IP law blog from a couple of folks from QM at http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/.

Hope this helps.

Hehe, Colin, I knew this would come ;-)
Edinburgh's long-distance programme is certainly worth thinking about, CA Associate. It might be easier to co-ordinate with working part-time at your firm than having to attend courses at fixed hours.
Oh, and thanks a lot for the address of the IP law blog, Colin, it's very interesting.

Can someone please tell me how the application process works for UCL, King's College and QMUL? Must I send a separate application to each university or does one application cover each of them since they are all part of the London university system? Please advise.

Kind regards.

Yes, you have to send a separate application form to each of the University of London colleges you want to apply to (since each college doesn't ask for exactly the same things in an application).

There is no centralized application system for the UofL LLM programme.

Does anyone know where to find the application to QMUL? I cannot seem to locate it on their website...any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Here's the address:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/postgraduate/apply/index.html

The best LLM programme in London is the LSE's, natch.

It's the only London university that is on a par to the Oxford BCL and the Cambridge LLM, and is also a very international course. As an American, you would be best advised to go there.

Hi studentbarista, do you have some objective parametres for your ranking of LSE? If so, please share it! I would have thought from what I read on this board and from other rankings that UCL is slightly better or at least at par with LSE

"In the most recent national research assessment (2001), LSE came second after Cambridge in the UK for the quality of its research. LSE submitted 97 per cent of its staff for assessment, more than any other university. A further review in 2003, retrospectively introduced a higher grading of 5** for subject areas which had achieved 5* in the two previous rounds of the research assessment exercise. Economics and Social Policy all received a 5**. In total, LSE received 12 grades of 5**,5* and 5 for all but one of its units of assessment.

* Economics and Econometrics 5**
* Social Policy and Administration 5**
* Accounting and Finance 5*
* Anthropology 5*
* International History 5*
* Law 5*
* Philosophy 5*
* Economic History 5
* Politics and International Relations 5
* Business and Management 5
* Geography 5
* Sociology 5
* Statistics and Operational Research 4"

LSE law scored higher than UCL law in the last RAE. Fact.

And if you think that the RAE is rubbish, just on a casual basis, you can easily see that the LSE law department has far more big names than UCL.

UCL might well have Lord Woolf (sometimes) and Michael Bridge and Dworkin (occasionally) but that IS IT.

The LSE has a star studded cast who regularly teach, including about 20 QCs. Not to mention the regular crew: Sarah Worthington, William Blair (brother of Tony), Vanessa FInch, Nicola Lacey, Michael Zander...

The LLM course at UCL is also far too big. It's the largest LLM course in London. I've got a friend doing it and he hates it. It's very disorganised.

I 've got some observations on studentbarista's views but first, lets hear from someone in UCL.
So members of the UCL clan, kindly step forward and air your views. Is LSE really superior to your school?

In America, UCL has an excellent reputation especially among New York law firms. LSE is very respected, but many American lawyers (and clients) unfortunately associate LSE with ultra-leftist radicalism and a faculty and student body tinged with virulent anti-American sentiment. Some LSE grads I've met in New York have complained that LSE's radical image caused some impediment in the American job market as a result. For this reason when it comes to London LLM's, the best and most practical choice (for someone wishing to penetrate the USA legal market without any prejudicial hurdles) would have to be UCL, hands down.

Er... why would anyone do an LLM in London with a view to penetrating the NY jobs market? Surely an LLM from an American university would be more useful?

Obviously - the LSE has a left wing reputation. But we're talking about an LLM here chaps. So unless you went to the LSE as an undergraduate, they're not going to automatically assume that you're some hairy leftie.

Also: I'm not laying into UCL as a place generally. It's really good. Much better, for example, than Queen Mary, London Met, and even King's. I just think that the intercollegiate London LLM is really poor. I think LSE was right to go it alone and have it all taught 'in-house.' As far as I can make out, LSE is percieved to be the best university in London for law.

(See other discussion about the intercollegiate LLM - although I don't know whether they really are going to get rid of it).

I 've got some observations on studentbarista's views but first, lets hear from someone in UCL.
So members of the UCL clan, kindly step forward and air your views. Is LSE really superior to your school?

I agree with ronin.
UCL and KCL are highly regarded by oxford and cambridge law grads.
It's only in the last 5-10 years that LSE has acquired a reputation as a decent law school. LSE has made a big effort to attract star names to its law faculty, although interestingly most of them are not lse graduates.
Furthermore, just because a school has a famous faculty doesn't mean that it necessarily provides a top legal education. A lot of excellent academics are poor teachers. When trying to determine the quality of a law school I think it's just as useful to look at how successful it's students are as it is to compare the reputation of its professors. For example, if you check out the academic background of barristers at the top chambers in london you'll notice that most of the tenants are from oxford and cambridge, followed by UCL and KCL.
Still, studentbarista has a point - the intercollegiate LLM is way too big to ensure that all the courses are of a consistent high quality so I'd advise anyone who's thinking of doing it to properly check out the classes they're interested in before choosing subjects. From my experience I'd recommend international insolvency at UCL (profs fletcher and harmer are superb) and international trusts at KCL. CA Associate, if you're interested in human rights then I'd recommend Comparative Human Rights at UCL or Human Rights in the Developing World at SOAS. The International Protection of Human Rights course at UCL is fascinating, but the main teachers on it (ralph wilde and matt craven) are awful, excellent academic records notwithstanding.

MrK, you have just hit the nail on the head! Most popular academics make their name from writing fabulous books which turn out to be reference points on the subject. However, when it comes to classroom lecturing, some of these otherwise big names are big flops... Additionally, most of the big names are quite busy! Some are practising barristers, others have engagements with a lot of international organisations, even with schools abroad. So one shouldnt be carried away by the strength of the CVs of a Faculty's academics. The taste of the pudding is in the eating and people who should know testify that UCL has an edge over LSE on teaching style and prospects after graduation.
On the intercollegiate system which most people see as a weakness, I actually think it is a source of strength. A UCL student who doesnt want to have anything with the so called unweildy system can always take all his courses from UCL. For the adventurous bird, the intercollegiate system permits you to have the best of 2 worlds - excellent UCL teaching in courses like Int'l Trade, Secured Transactions, Int'l Finance, Environmental Law and Natural Resources. Complemented by KCL's reputed International Law of Trusts.
Cheers