Hey guys, I'm new to this site and would really appreciate your advice. I finished my LPC at the College of Law in June but have had no luck in securing even an interview for a training contract. It 'may' have something to do with not very good a-levels and only a 2.2 from a very not top university! I definately have reasons for both of those (several surgeries - wheelchair or crutches bound the entire time) and have letters from my uni tutor and GP to back this up. I'm definately capable of AT LEAST 2.1 standard (I know I sound a little arrogant in that considering my grades but you try passing an exam when you haven't even been to half the lectures and you're hopped up on painkillers the entire time!)
Anyway, I've always wanted to do the LLM but was going to wait until I'd paid off my LPC fees and had the money but I'm now thinking I'm going to have to go down the LLM route this year and beg my bank for some extra funds.
So thats the back story - my question to all you professionals is do you think its worth it? Will having an LLM really help me secure a training contract with a good City firm or will they always look at my uni and degree and say no? Remember I'm in an extreme amount of debt and so this would be a massive financial risk for me. And whilst I'm at it I guess I could ask your opinion on my chances of getting into a good London LLM programme? I was thinking UCL. I was thinking about LSE but then based on my grades and the cost I thought better of it!
By the way - I got a very good commendation on the LPC - the first time in 5 years I'd been able to attend most of my classes.
(Sorry for the long post!) I'd really appreciate any comments - even if just to say keep dreaming of a TC!

Hi,

Well, I am a French currently reading for the UCL LLM, but I don't know really how the training contract market works in the UK.

Some friends concerned about it explained to me indeed you needed a 2:1, and i have in mind the case of one student in the same case as you, who managed to be admitted in the UCL LLM program to better secure a training contract afterwards I suppose. However, I never discussed about it with her as it is a painful topic.

So as far I know, my answer is :
1 - It seems to be possible to be admitted in the UCL LLM without a 2:1, as a student did so. But I don't know if she had benefited from special circumstances such as special favor, etc...
2- I really don't know if LLM are useful to secure a training contract, but I suppose to get a strong 2:1 or a first (rare in LLM UCL as I know) can help in this purpose.

Hi,

It will definitely increase your chances of getting a training contract if you did very well on the llm - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you looked even more impressive than a person who had done well thoughout. Getting an LLM alone will probably not help much though.

UCL would be a good choice. I was there as an undergraduate, so I'm not too familiar with the LLM, but they are usually very willing to give anyone who is disadvantaged in any way a chance.

If I were you, I would email a person called Rodney Austin - he's a member of the faculty. He used to be in charge of undergraduate admissions, and probably still is, but if you wrote him a personalised email explaining your situation (be explicit about the difficulties you are facing) and asked for his help and advice and/or your chances of getting on to the LLM, he may be able to help you out - he's a very nice man. Be sure to point out that you have an academic interest in particular areas of law as well - they like that sort of thing.Go to the UCL homepage and look for his name under academic staff. His email address will be on it.

You don't have anything to lose - btw you could try a similar strategy and the other london colleges (or any other university obviously, though don't bother with LSE - they won't be particularly receptive).

Good luck!

Thank you both. I think ap123 is right, I have nothing to lose (other than money but I'm already steeped in debt so a few thousand more probably won't make much of a difference!) and everything to gain.

Good luck !

A further piece of advice I would give is this: rather than just think about doing an LLM-think more strategically about building your CV so that it will impress a future legal employer.

Don't just focus on getting a good LLM-eg if you are interested in one particular area of law try and get an internship in that area, eg with the relevant Directorate-General of the European Commission or with firm who has an in-house counsel operation specialising in your field also think about national regulators who cover your field.

So think about building that CV.

Essentially City firms are looking for a practical intelligence and a can do attitude demonstrate that effectively and you'll get a job

with all the best luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk

Dr Riley - thank you for the advice. I have already been trying to get just any legal experience as a paralegal to better my CV but the only positions I can find in the North where I am currently living are for PI or property - neither of which I want to touch with a bargepole! (I may have misspelt that!)
Anyway - as much as I recognise the need for any legal experience I don't see such positions impressing even a small commercial city firm. Ideally I'd like to do tax law and I have been looking at traineeships at the DG Customs and Tax in Brussels further to your advice and it sounds like just the experience I need. Unfortunately I just missed the March 1st deadline for an October start but I'll certainly try for next year.
Thank you again.

By the way, could I ask as you are the Director of an LLM programme how would you rate my chances of getting into somewhere like City's programme? I know competition is fierce and although it won't stop me applying I woudn't mind having a realistic idea of my chances to help me plan accordingly (and if my chances are particularly bad I may include some pics of when my leg had a metal fixator attached at uni to get the sympathy vote! - thats a joke by the way for anyone who thinks I'm serious)

No need for photos. A medical note will do!

Essentially we take the same view of City firms. Basically we are looking for high cailbre capable people who can benefit from our courses.

But we don't just restrict ourselves to paper qualifications. if you have a good reason why you didn't get a good grade and demonstrate enthusiasm and commitment-and good references- then we will look favourably on your application. (To be fair I should also say that I think that most law schools would take the same view).

Two other related points. First, I am very committed to all my LLM students building their CVs and will happily arrange career guidance during the time they are with us (and indeed afterwards). One approach to guidance is that I will positively assist in seeking o get a place in European Commission's stage programme (I did my stage in the Competition Equipe in the Commission's Legal Service)-because my view is that getting an LLM and then adding on a Commission or equivalent stage (eg with WTO) really does provide a positive launchpad for the future.
Second, we are running an international tax course next year-which may be the sort of thing you are looking for.

Frankly, wherever you choose to go I think your determination to keep going despite direct physical damage-will impress most law schools.

again with best of luck

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk

In response to your comment about practical work experience not being useful if doing property or PI work- I'm afraid that I would have to disagree.
Despite not having a TC beforehand- I did 9 months PI experience and got a TC from a top 50 firm off the back of that (albeit other things too). It shows that you have experienced the law in practice and hence are making an informed decision about working in a law firm. Nobody would expect you to like or continue working in these areas of law- I for one will never work in PI again, however the experience was paramount in obtaining my TC.
In addition, paralegal experience in smaller firms often exposes you to greater responsibility that paralegalling at a city firm can not offer. I ended up running some of my own files for example. Although you will be working on higher value cases at city firm paralegalling only involves paginating and bundling! Not fun, and not a great use of skills in my opinion.

Have you considered doing the LLM over two years and combining it with some form of practical work experience? This will ease your financial burden as well- trust me it is doable, I completed the LPC part-time whilst working full-time...

Jem82 - I wouldn't have any choice but to do the LLM part-time, when i said earlier that finances are stretched I meant with a full time job ;-)
I understand what you're saying about the legal experience. I've heard conflicting opinions. Some people have told me that it wouldn't really benefit me having that kind of experience in trying to obtain a TC and I guess I kind of went with it mainly because I hate PI and property law property dragged my entire degree down and I did my work experience in a PI practice). In reality though legal experience is legal experience and if I can't get some in a area of law I like then I may just have to bite the bullett and suffer for a while!

Can I ask what area of law you want to / have qualify/ied into?

Yeah sure- I hope to qualify into commercial/IP. So def not property or PI. I think any form of experience is important in securing the TC and dont think firms worry too much about what kind of experience it is provided it is with a fairly reputable firm etc.
I also think it has a lot to do with how you market it e.g you could sell experience in PI as giving you a good practical grounding in civil lit etc....
I know what you mean about biting the bullet - I dont think I could have done another day working in PI- as soon as I was offered a TC I handed my notice in! Having said that, the experience was vital in obtaining my TC so I guess I shouldnt knock it too much.
Essentially the point is that the work experience is there to get you a TC, once you have got over that milestone several more options open themselves up to you, and once you have the TC you dont need to do anything else law wise if you dont want to until you actually start at your firm. Likewise once you have six months paralegal experience, you will be able to apply for a greater variety of paralegal jobs simply by virtue of having that experience.

In short, I would say go for the best paralegal job (best firm) available to you at the moment- try not to worry about area of law, more about the level of responsibility you can take on, and then weigh up your options 4-6months down the line when you can put a hefty chunk of legal work experience down on your CV.
That way, you would have ticked another one of those all important boxes whilst doing the LLM and made yourself a much better candidate for a TC in the process.