NYU LLM-SJD program


dam

Has anybody heard anything about the NYU LLM -SJD program? Did anyone apply to it?

Has anybody heard anything about the NYU LLM -SJD program? Did anyone apply to it?
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fg

Aren't they two separate programs? One is the LLM and the other is the doctorate?

Aren't they two separate programs? One is the LLM and the other is the doctorate?
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dam

According to NYU website it is a particular International Studies LLM that's intended to lead most of the times to a non-guaranteed admission to the SJD program the following year.

According to NYU website it is a particular International Studies LLM that's intended to lead most of the times to a non-guaranteed admission to the SJD program the following year.
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ivan2006

I think they are separate. First you earn your LLM and then you apply for admission at the JSD.

I think they are separate. First you earn your LLM and then you apply for admission at the JSD.
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fg

In that case I would consider them separate since entry into the JSD is not guaranteed.
US doctorates in law are generally pretty crap since it is a relatively new degree and gets little respect or attention from US faculty. That being said, I think NYU does a good job of securing funding for its JSD students and has relatively good supervision.
If you are interested I would contact Benedict Kingsbury at NYU.

In that case I would consider them separate since entry into the JSD is not guaranteed.
US doctorates in law are generally pretty crap since it is a relatively new degree and gets little respect or attention from US faculty. That being said, I think NYU does a good job of securing funding for its JSD students and has relatively good supervision.
If you are interested I would contact Benedict Kingsbury at NYU.
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dam

Thank you for your answer, Flygirl.
In fact I recently came to have the same opinion regarding American JSD programs, although without having much first hand information to support this view. Do you think that English programs are better (I'm already a Ph.D. candidate in my country)?

Thank you for your answer, Flygirl.
In fact I recently came to have the same opinion regarding American JSD programs, although without having much first hand information to support this view. Do you think that English programs are better (I'm already a Ph.D. candidate in my country)?
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fg

I am biased because I am actually going to the UK to do my DPhil/PhD in law this October. I did my LLM at Columbia and my general impression is that the doctoral students are the lowest in the pecking order (with JDs being at the top). Many professors haven't even heard of the JSD.

I am biased because I am actually going to the UK to do my DPhil/PhD in law this October. I did my LLM at Columbia and my general impression is that the doctoral students are the lowest in the pecking order (with JDs being at the top). Many professors haven't even heard of the JSD.
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dam

Thank you very much. That's a direct answer!

Thank you very much. That's a direct answer!
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fg

That being said, my experience is entirely anecdotal. There may be others who have a different impression. The two things that will indicate how seriously the program is taken is whether 1) the law school allocates you a supervisor straight away (as opposed to having to hunt one down yourself); and 2) there is funding for JSD students.
Remember that most US law schools require you to do the LLM at their institution first or in the very least already have a faculty member willing to vouch for you.

That being said, my experience is entirely anecdotal. There may be others who have a different impression. The two things that will indicate how seriously the program is taken is whether 1) the law school allocates you a supervisor straight away (as opposed to having to hunt one down yourself); and 2) there is funding for JSD students.
Remember that most US law schools require you to do the LLM at their institution first or in the very least already have a faculty member willing to vouch for you.
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dam

And there is another chord that sounds strange to me: Why American JSD programs such as Harvard do not attract a meaningful amount of American students? Maybe American students still think that the right formula to secure a teaching position is not JD+JSD as in continental Europe but JD+Law Review+Federal Judge clerckship? What value should one put on a program that is neglected by local students?

And there is another chord that sounds strange to me: Why American JSD programs such as Harvard do not attract a meaningful amount of American students? Maybe American students still think that the right formula to secure a teaching position is not JD+JSD as in continental Europe but JD+Law Review+Federal Judge clerckship? What value should one put on a program that is neglected by local students?
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fg

Well the American students consider the JD their doctorate (it is technically a doctoral degree) and would only do a JSD if they went to a low-ranked school and want to upgrade. In addition, many of them already have loads of other degrees since the JD is a graduate degree and many of them only do it when they can't get jobs in their field. I knew quite a few ppl at Columbia who had PhDs in economics, english etc who then went on to a JD.

Well the American students consider the JD their doctorate (it is technically a doctoral degree) and would only do a JSD if they went to a low-ranked school and want to upgrade. In addition, many of them already have loads of other degrees since the JD is a graduate degree and many of them only do it when they can't get jobs in their field. I knew quite a few ppl at Columbia who had PhDs in economics, english etc who then went on to a JD.
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dam

Thank you very much, Flygirl: It seems that the JD is the only sensible choice for someone that wants to work in America.
Since I was recently admitted to the Columbia LLM may I ask you how would you rate your experience in general?

Thank you very much, Flygirl: It seems that the JD is the only sensible choice for someone that wants to work in America.
Since I was recently admitted to the Columbia LLM may I ask you how would you rate your experience in general?
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fg

Congratulations on your admission to CLS!
I don't agree that the JD is the only sensible choice. I did the LLM and managed to secure a job in litigation in NYC so it is doable.
I have been criticized and mocked on this board from YLS (aka josepidal) for promoting Columbia so am wary of opening myself up to that again.
All I can say is that I really enjoyed my time at Columbia. The faculty is impressive and the courses are really interesting. And depending on where your first degree in law is from the exposure to the US legal system (and legal reasoning) is fascinating. The facilities are great esp. the accommodation and I like the location which is close to parks and good restaurants. It has a real campus feel and I made heaps of really good friends.
Most of all I just love living in New York City which is an experience in itself and part of the reason I chose Columbia.
In terms of the standard of graduate degrees and academic rigour I don't think you can beat the Oxford BCL but in terms of life experience New York is unmatched.

Congratulations on your admission to CLS!
I don't agree that the JD is the only sensible choice. I did the LLM and managed to secure a job in litigation in NYC so it is doable.
I have been criticized and mocked on this board from YLS (aka josepidal) for promoting Columbia so am wary of opening myself up to that again.
All I can say is that I really enjoyed my time at Columbia. The faculty is impressive and the courses are really interesting. And depending on where your first degree in law is from the exposure to the US legal system (and legal reasoning) is fascinating. The facilities are great esp. the accommodation and I like the location which is close to parks and good restaurants. It has a real campus feel and I made heaps of really good friends.
Most of all I just love living in New York City which is an experience in itself and part of the reason I chose Columbia.
In terms of the standard of graduate degrees and academic rigour I don't think you can beat the Oxford BCL but in terms of life experience New York is unmatched.
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arbitguy

YLS = Josepidal?

Why, why?


YLS = Josepidal?

Why, why?
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dam

It's really good news to hear that you secured a job in NYC.
I'm sorry if I inadvertently unearthed some past controversy over the merits of the respective schools, but in my opinion, at least among the top 5 nobody can make a bad choice (in fact not only among top 5, since I applied to lower ranked schools too). I tend to agree with you regarding Oxford; I really regret not having applied to Oxford and Cambridge.

It's really good news to hear that you secured a job in NYC.
I'm sorry if I inadvertently unearthed some past controversy over the merits of the respective schools, but in my opinion, at least among the top 5 nobody can make a bad choice (in fact not only among top 5, since I applied to lower ranked schools too). I tend to agree with you regarding Oxford; I really regret not having applied to Oxford and Cambridge.
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