Hi all,

I have just completed my Bachelor of Laws with Honours in Australia and am now awaiting graduation in December. I have a GPA of 6.44/7 and will graduate with 1st class honours. I have previously presented a paper at a conference, and am currently working on three publications with my honours supervisor that we hope to publish in the next year. Throughout my degree, I have completed the Jessup Moot, the International Humanitarian Law Moot, volunteered at different community legal centres, tutored disadvantaged law students, and worked part-time to support myself financially. I have also completed a short-term post-grad course in international justice in The Hague. I am currently working as a paralegal at a boutique law firm, and will start my position as a graduate lawyer (same firm) in January. The only problem is... that it's not what I want to do long-term. I am very interested in International Law (International Criminal Law, Public International Law and Transitional Justice), as well as Critical Legal Theory, Cultural Legal Studies and Jurisprudence. I have sort of niched myself in both of these throughout my degree.... and I can't decide what I want to do now in terms of subject areas, or even level of study. My plan was always to apply to the ICL masters at Leiden, Amsterdam University... or International Legal Studies at NYU. But my Honours degree is an AQF-8 level degree, and apparently that means - that I can go straight into a PhD, which I'm considering - partly because my professors tell me that an LLM is 'useless' and partly because I don't feel finished 'learning'. Further, because I received a first class honours, I probably have a few more options in terms of what university I can attend? I always wanted to work at an international court, but will my interest in cultural legal studies, critical theory and jurisprudence have to be neglected for that? Is there a path that lets me do both? One of my professors advised me to skip the masters, apply for an internship at the ICC/ICTY (while the ICTY still exists) and apply for a PhD whenever I feel like it.

I just don't know. Are you aware of schools that are great at both? That do cross-sectoral stuff? I'm so confused. What paths would you recommend?
If all else fails I do nothing, get admitted and keep working at a boutique firm. But I just don't feel finished.

Hi!

First of all, congratulations on all of your achievements! That is impressive!

Okay so, my advice: I totally get you that you do not feel "finished". How long is a bachelor is Australia, three years?

Also, I do not know which of your professor said an LL.M. was "useless", since it is simply not true. From what I saw, an LL.M. might not be very useful say if you want to practice law as an attorney in the United States, for instance, since you would need a JD rather than an LL.M. Otherwise, I do believe it is definitely a useful degree to have as long as you can integrate it in your resume/skill set, especially if you want to work in the international law area, where having an LL.M. becomes increasingly more important and more of a necessity than just a "bonus". So I would forget about what your professor said if I were you.

About the difference between an LL.M./PhD: I think it depends on what you want to do with your life. An LL.M. is a one year program which often is aimed at giving you sufficient knowledge and practice so you can jump into professional life right/soon after in the field you have been studying. A PhD is much longer (I do not know how it is in Australia but in France it tends to be MINIMUM 3 years in law, and depending on what you do on the side and how fast - or slow - you are it can take up to 10 years), and is good if you want to be a scholar/academic later in your life (professor etc). Also, again I do not know how it is in Australia, but in France you are pretty much "on your own" when you do a PhD in the sense that you do not go to class etc... You are doing your own research.

So it depends on what you want to do with your life basically, and the experience you want to get out of your next studies. I would tend to say that:

- LL.M. = if you want to be a practitioner; PhD = if are rather aiming at the academic/scholar world (but be aware that you could still do both anyway since an LL.M. is just one year and would always be a nice addition to your experience)

- MY PERSONAL belief is that a bachelor is indeed not enough in any case, no matter how good you are. I am also "afraid" by the idea of pursuing a PhD right after your bachelor, since it seems like a long, academic commitment. Unless you are absolutely sure this is what you want to do, I would recommend pursuing a master's degree first, and then see if you still want to go deeper into the academic stuff. Again, this is just my PERSONAL opinion. Moreover, maybe it is different in other countries, but in France at least a PhD is not really something where you get to go to classes and stuff, you pretty much do your thing by yourself (even if of course you have a supervisor you will consult etc, but it is nothing like having class). If you are looking to expand your "general" knowledge and experience university life etc, I would go with an LL.M. (which is, again, definitely useful and increasingly becomes a requirement when you want to work on the international level). And since it would only be a year, it would not prevent you in any way from still pursuing a PhD afterwards if it is what you want to do. Keeping in mind that you could maybe try to do both at the same time, but I am not sure how of a good idea that would be.

Hope this helps!

An LLM is not always useless. Some US law schools use the LLM as an internal feeding system for their SJD/JSD programs and either won't look at outside students for their doctoral programs or will make them repeat the LLM (Chicago, I think). If you're looking at doing a PhD in law (as opposed to an SJD/JSD), there aren't many options in the US. Yale is one of the notable exceptions. If you plan to do a PhD in another field, like political science or whatever, I would agree that an LLM won't be of that much use. An LLM can still be useful for building relationships with mentors, refining your interests, taking more courses, writing publishable work, etc....As always, the answer is "it depends"

Napz,

Thank you!! It's not at all what I expected would happen when I entered my degree four years ago. And yes, the Australian Bachelor with Honours is a four year degree! I guess the problem is that I am not sure what I want to do. If I'm going to stay in Australia I think I want to be in academia (because of the limited careerrs in international law), but if I'm in a place where there is an oppprtunity to work in international law, I think I would prefer professional work. So it all depends. I guess what had me veeeery confused was the recommendation by one of my professors, who used to work at the ICTY - "why would you do an llm? get an internship if you want to work at the court - then do a phd". I was not surprised at the comment fro my other professors who are basically mid-thirties, GENIUS professors who seem like they were meant for academia and did not even care to be admitted as lawyers.

It also depends on if the school will offer a full paying scholarship, or if I can find funding elsewhere. I am an international student from Europe though so maybe some schools are cheaper - like the Amsterdam llm in ICL. Would you recommenf any schools in ICL/ international law besides Leiden in Europe?

Thanks for your response grumpy :) I have been looking into the US but it seems that schools lile Columbia would not have me this soon after graduating.

And yes ultimately I would be looking more towards a PhD in law.

For ICL, I would tend to think Leiden is probably the best. For international law in general, you would want to check the programs they offer in Geneva (either from the IHEID - which is great but expensive - or the University of Geneva - which I believe is good or even very good too, with some great faculty, for much cheaper). I am sure they also have great LL.M.s in the UK, but I do not know which is good in what field. You would have to check the forums by yourself!

And if you do not know what you want to do (and again, this is only my PERSONAL opinion, you are the one making the call here), I would definitely NOT recommend pursuing a PhD since it is a heavy commitment. An LL.M. is just a year and grants you a fair amount of knowledge and potentially very good connections (in Geneva or in the Hague for example, where you would probably have the chance to pursue an internship). If you absolutely have no idea what you want to do with your life I recommend you do an LL.M., which would be the most flexible option, yet still (very) rewarding if you get into a good program.